The "feathered" ball in a smoothbore

I'm gonna have to try that with the Bess or the 12ga at some point.

arcticap said:

Someone had invented an motorized ball rasping device, but I can't find the posts about it.
It had a rotating rasping plate or two that spun the ball around which imparted the feathering in about 2 seconds.

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Makes me feel pain just to think about it.

I have 2 issues with this, he didn't try patched ball with either smooth or "chewed" and he did not try different powder charge or show any load development for the chewed ball.... plus shooting in 20 mph winds will be an issue as well. For me the test is not conclusive.

so I wonder has anyone tried a rough ball in a patch in a rifled barrel? I wonder if that would fly better??

chewed balls dont do much for you. Every muzzle loader I have ever seen has one particular load it likes. You can get 2 identical rifles. Put 70grs of 2f and a PRB and one will shoot 1inch groups and the other will shoot 3 or 4 inches. There is no "majic" load, you gotta find the one your rifle likes. Same goes for 18th century rifles and 21 century rifles.

dennis g said:

View attachment 921493 Here's an Alox coated .680 ball sitting atop a.692 bore. No patches are allowed in NSSA competitions.

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What is alox coating ?

Sburk1993 said:

What is alox coating ?

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Alox is bullet lube. It's not something I would use for bp but then I never tried it.

hawg said:

Alox is bullet lube. It's not something I would use for bp but then I never tried it.

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I wonder if a few coats of bees wax would be good I want to try this on my traditions blunderbuss

Muzzle Loader magazine had quite an extensive article in it a ways back. In some tests the chewed balls were more accurate, but it was slight, and not the result in every case. But it was a very extensive test, using many variables. It did pan out that in some guns, with some diameter balls, and some loads they did shoot a little better. But there was no conclusion that they were more accurate overall.

I rasp the balls for my Bess, and they seem, seem, to be a bit more accurate. I use .690"s. I can either patch them with denim, or rasp them and use a .023" patch. I have not tried them yet in a paper cartridge.

I've thought about trying it with some .595" balls I have for my Jeager, to see if there was any advantage in a rifled bore, but as usual have never got around to trying it. I usually run a .600" ball in my Jeager, which is supposed to be a .62", but obviously she's a bit tight. I think it's closer to a .61".

Stippled balls are pretty common in MLAIC competition. Having said that, your mileage will definitely vary. They seem to do best unpatched, often over a buffer such as Cream of Wheat.

Sburk1993 said:

I wonder if a few coats of bees wax would be good I want to try this on my traditions blunderbuss

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Bee's wax is good. I always dip the ball-end of my paper cartridges with it. There doesn't seem to be any need to mix any kind of lube with it.

I have a bullet lube that's mostly natural, bee's wax and oil, but I also added some Alox to it and have found no ill effect with black powder. My 1861 Springfield really seems to like it. I do use it sparingly though.

.38 Special said:

This month's Muzzle Blasts had an interesting article on blackpowder shooting in indoor ranges. Among other things, the author detailed the use of "feathered" balls in smoothbore guns. These are round balls which have been rolled between a pair of rasps, resulting in a roughened surface which, without a patch, can be loaded easily but still grips the walls of the bore. The author claimed quite acceptable accuracy.

Has anyone here tried this?

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I shoot North South Skirmish (N-SSA) and I shoot smoothbore. My smoothbore is a replica of a 1842 Springfield cut down like was done by the Confederate arsenal at Macon to return damaged guns to service. My gun has a bore of .690. I cast a ball of .685. I have tried the rasping, dimpling, and other general mutilation methods and NONE will beat a plain ball, at least in my gun. As for 4moa accuracy? I think a bunch of that is wishful thinking for most folks as the lack of any adjustable rear sight is the real limiting factor. Here's a 7 shot group shot offhand at 25yd. There are 5 shots in the larger hole with 2 "flyers" and again, since there is no rear sight and only an excuse of a front blade, I think this is more than adequate for most purposes and I wouldn't hesitate to use it on Bambi out to 50yd.

midland man said:

so I wonder has anyone tried a rough ball in a patch in a rifled barrel? I wonder if that would fly better??

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Yes. No

Sburk1993 said:

What is alox coating ?

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Alox is a bullet lube for modern smokeless powder. It is NOT a good thing with real black as it leaves a very hard fouling. My lube for my Macon is simple beeswax/lard. Only part of the ball is dipped in it and that part goes to the powder. I wouldn't leave it loaded like that but for N-SSA competition, it doesn't stay in the barrel very long.

.38 Special said:

Just when you think you know everything about guns, you discover yet another whole world!

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Yep, never heard of anything like this.
Of course, I don't shoot much muzzle loader and no round ball.

dave951 said:

I shoot North South Skirmish (N-SSA) and I shoot smoothbore. My smoothbore is a replica of a 1842 Springfield cut down like was done by the Confederate arsenal at Macon to return damaged guns to service. My gun has a bore of .690. I cast a ball of .685. I have tried the rasping, dimpling, and other general mutilation methods and NONE will beat a plain ball, at least in my gun. As for 4moa accuracy? I think a bunch of that is wishful thinking for most folks as the lack of any adjustable rear sight is the real limiting factor. Here's a 7 shot group shot offhand at 25yd. There are 5 shots in the larger hole with 2 "flyers" and again, since there is no rear sight and only an excuse of a front blade, I think this is more than adequate for most purposes and I wouldn't hesitate to use it on Bambi out to 50yd.

View attachment 1051563

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I sure like that chopped down '42 of yours. I put "period correct" rifle sights on my Brown Bess "Ranger Carbine". It does help a lot. But even with sights I think 50 yards is the reasonable range for a smooth bore, as far as a humane kill. Of course if your target is remaining stationary, is not aware of you, and you can take a good rest maybe a 60 yard shot is doo-able. If you are hungry enough, and are willing to take a chance on a miss, maybe 75 yards...but it's a gamble.

Even with my sights, I would never claim 4 MOA. With a smooth bore, a 2" group at 50 (best I can do is 3" at fifty, and not consistently) will not translate into 4" at 100. They just don't "work" that way. I can't shoot a 6" group at 100, nor even keep them on a paper plate at that distance.

Got to love the movies showing them incredible shots, driving nails in a post with a Brown Bess or some unnamed flintlock.

The Revolution was something like 1 hit for 25 rounds fired, I think I read.

Ugly Sauce said:

I sure like that chopped down '42 or yours. I put "period correct" rifle sights on my Brown Bess "Ranger Carbine". It does help a lot. But even with sights I think 50 yards is the reasonable range for a smooth bore, as far as a humane kill. Of course if your target is remaining stationary, is not aware of you, and you can take a good rest maybe a 60 yard shot is doo-able. If you are hungry enough, and are willing to take a chance on a miss, maybe 75 yards...but it's a gamble.

Even with my sights, I would never claim 4 MOA. With a smooth bore, a 2" group at 50 (best I can do is 3" at fifty, and not consistently) will not translate into 4" at 100. They just don't "work" that way. I can't shoot a 6" group at 100, nor even keep them on a paper plate at that distance.

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I'll say this regarding shooting one of these. To be reasonably decent, you have to practice. No way around it. I also found that my sight picture/point of impact changes depending what I'm wearing. Through experiments, I've determined my most accurate, consistent "apparel" to be shirt sleeves. When I wear my shell jacket as in my avatar, point of impact shifts down and to the left. Weird, yes, factual, yes.

The real reason some in the N-SSA "feather" or otherwise mechanically molest the round ball is the amount of windage between bore and ball. If your ball is within .005 of your bore size, I'd say you don't benefit from altering the ball.

arcticap said:

Rasping the balls fractionally increases their diameter by displacing some of the lead into raised bumps.
That way they can sometimes be rapidly loaded without using any patch at all.
And who knows, the dimpling may also increase accuracy.

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It’s why Golf balls are dimpled if I recall correctly.

Alox is mentioned above. I use Lee liquid Alox on 45C bullets and others. I load these in blackpowder cartridges. I’ve observed no addition fouling when the gun is cleaned. I recall a side remark made by a user here some time back about using liquid Alox on round balls.
Liquid Alox is a tumble lube. One dumps bullets into a suitable container adds a few drops of liquid Alox and shakes and rattles the container contents until everything is coated.

whughett said:

Alox is mentioned above. I use Lee liquid Alox on 45C bullets and others. I load these in blackpowder cartridges. I’ve observed no addition fouling when the gun is cleaned. I recall a side remark made by a user here some time back about using liquid Alox on round balls.
Liquid Alox is a tumble lube. One dumps bullets into a suitable container adds a few drops of liquid Alox and shakes and rattles the container contents until everything is coated.

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...then separated and dried for a day or two to harden.

noelf2 said:

...then separated and dried for a day or two to harden.

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Right you are. These are 200 grain .452 Lee tumble lube SWC’s I threw yesterday and tumble lubed. They are now dry to the touch. They are ready for 45C or 45ACP loads. None of these will be used in black powder 45C though. It’s indoor shooting season here in RI.

I only heard about this a couple weeks ago. I'm Never to old to learn it seems.

When shooting my smoothbore in Tradegun events I get great accuracy from using a shot type load - a wad over the powder, the ball, and another wad to keep the ball in place. It's about a 6" group at 50 yards. When shooting another smoothbore I was using a old Herders 1 7/8os 12ga plastic wad with buckshot. At 50 yards the wad would stick through a 1/2" chip board with only two holes within a couple of inches of the wad. The rest must have been still in the wad. I did this more than once when sighting it in for deer hunting, so I'm having trouble believing that it was tumbling end over end and would some how always end up perfectly straight when hitting the target board. This was back in the 70s. My brother law watched me shoot in a river about 60 yards below us. He didn't shoot BP, and started yelling, "Jesus Christ, what in the fu@@ are you shooting - it looks like a cannon ball just dropped in the water". I still laugh about it 45 years latter.