Shooting Tripod guys; Leveling Base VS. Ball Head

Status
Not open for further replies.
Chuck R.

Chuck R.

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2005
Messages
5,176
Location
Leavenworth, KS
I'm in the process of putting together a dedicated shooting tripod, VS my multi-tasked Monefretto.
I already have:

1. Hog Saddle enroute, for my non-railed rifles
2. Shadow Tech low profile ball head, with ARCA QD plates
3. Shadow Tech PIG0311-G tripod

I like the Shadow tech guys cause they're local. Question is, how many of you prefer a leveling plate to a ball head and why??

Purpose is for general practice and because KS is now allowing us to hunt coyotes with NV and lights. Once I strap all the other chit on my rifles they start to weigh more than my poor little Bog Pod can help steady.
 
good question. it's mostly preference. i prefer ball head. the mechanism is above the plate so i can put the tripod on the ground like this pic

index.php


with a leveling base, some of the guts and the adjustment are lower so you can' t do that, but from a higher position it may be a bit more stable. and it's kinda like the difference in balancing a marble on a bowl right side up (base) vs upside down (ball), but to a much lesser extent. however, i like hanging weight from the hook or putting my sling on it and stepping on it which adds more stability imho

btw, ditch the hog saddle. put a game changer bag on top of the ball head or base and it will be more stable and adjustable than a hog saddle could ever be. it's way faster too.
 
taliv said:
good question. it's mostly preference. i prefer ball head. the mechanism is above the plate so i can put the tripod on the ground like this pic

index.php


with a leveling base, some of the guts and the adjustment are lower so you can' t do that, but from a higher position it may be a bit more stable. and it's kinda like the difference in balancing a marble on a bowl right side up (base) vs upside down (ball), but to a much lesser extent. however, i like hanging weight from the hook or putting my sling on it and stepping on it which adds more stability imho

btw, ditch the hog saddle. put a game changer bag on top of the ball head or base and it will be more stable and adjustable than a hog saddle could ever be. it's way faster too.
Click to expand...

THANKS!

Probably should have posted the question before I ordered......but we'll see. I can always sell the saddle for a minor loss, and I already have a game changer. I have verified the weight limits on what I've acquired so far, so at least that's good to go.

Currently it's got a ball head and the QD ARCA plate, the center column has a removable hook for pack/weight. I'm going to play with this setup for a while before making any changes. I think carbon fiber may be in the future, but for what I'm using it for the aluminum should work OK for at least a while.
 
Guys,

I'm trying to wrap my head around how a bag on top of the ball head is more stable than the hog saddle that clamps the gun in. Basically a clamped on ARCA plate interface. Speed I can understand, but the stability aspect I'm racking my brain. I was trying it out dry firing last night. Is there some technique I'm missing?

A little help?

This is what I've got on order:

https://stores.hogsaddle.com/hog-saddle-mod-7/

Are we talking about the same thing?

THANKS!
 
basically when you clamp something it's clamped in one spot. that spot isn't going to be on your target unless you've got about 30 min to sit and fine tune align it and hope the wind doesn't change or your target doesn't take a step. you're going to be a mil or two off usually, best case. then you're going to have to put pressure on the gun to flex the clamp, head, tripod enough to point your gun at the target. if you stop putting pressure on it, it springs back to where it was.

throwing your bag on top is no different than throwing your game changer on top of a fence post, or railing or any other stable support you might find. you put the gun in the general vicinity of the target, then start applying pressure to fine tune it, but once the crosshairs are where you want them, you can let go and they stay there. there's no spring back. it doesn't require continued precise application of pressure by muscle to maintain sight pic.
 
taliv said:
basically when you clamp something it's clamped in one spot. that spot isn't going to be on your target unless you've got about 30 min to sit and fine tune align it and hope the wind doesn't change or your target doesn't take a step. you're going to be a mil or two off usually, best case. then you're going to have to put pressure on the gun to flex the clamp, head, tripod enough to point your gun at the target. if you stop putting pressure on it, it springs back to where it was.

throwing your bag on top is no different than throwing your game changer on top of a fence post, or railing or any other stable support you might find. you put the gun in the general vicinity of the target, then start applying pressure to fine tune it, but once the crosshairs are where you want them, you can let go and they stay there. there's no spring back. it doesn't require continued precise application of pressure by muscle to maintain sight pic.
Click to expand...

Got it!

Hopefully I'll get out this weekend to work on it.
 
1 thing to be aware of is you can over clamp and crack your stock if you have a carbon fiber or fiberglass stock.

a lot of people who were fans of clamps back in the day before the game changer bag developed numerous techniques to apply pressure to the gun in better ways than just pushing on it with your shoulder or arms. the most popular is probably using the sling. most methods involve connecting your sling to the forearm but disconnect it from the butt. wrap it around a tripod leg and put your foot in the loop, and use your foot to apply tension to the gun to help keep it stable and aim it (mostly up and down). there are some youtube vids that demonstrate
 
1) Hog/pig saddle is not as stable as being locked into an ARCA clamp on the tripod. Even the RRS Vyce isn’t as secure and “hard wired” as direct clamping, and it grips much more solid than the pig or hog saddles.

2) Being “hard wired” isn’t always favorable. It allows the rifle to impart a lot of torque on the tripod - or rather allows the shooter to use the rifle to impart torque into the tripod, which puts tension into the system which isn’t good. Bagging on top of the platform doesn’t allow that torque. Some guys like saddles because they can slip the rifle a little for tilt between the jaws, as it causes less “spring,” less tension in the legs. I prefer hard wired or bagged, but don’t really like the in between.

3) The extra “dampening” weight of the bag on the platform also helps reduce some response in the tripod. A lot of guys have abandoned clamping their binos to their tripods even, and just set them on their bag on the platform.

4) Personally, I prefer a leveling base over a ballhead, but largely because the leveling base is a little less “snappy.” Ball head ability for independent panning while tilt and cant are locked is nice, and increased angle capacity is nice, but the slower/lesser response, lower profile, more secure lock, etc are nicer to me. I have a small tripod with a ballhead and a big tripod with a leveling base, either work fine for their respective applications.
 
taliv said:
if you think hog/pig saddle is expensive, look at the RRS vyce. and the vyce isn't any better. probably worse.
Click to expand...

You are right about that. Both are priced outrageously for what is there.

Being a tinkerer I daydreamed a little until I had a blueprint in my mind and then went out in the garage and started digging thru my scrap buckets.The results were a clamp that will do anything the hog saddle will for almost no dollars. I did have to buy a small piece of rod to make the guide rods from but everything else including the neoprene sheet used for pads was just left overs. Funny thing is I never warmed up to using it and it sits collecting dust now. Then I came up with about the same rig shown shown circled in VT's post except it is one piece and I had never seen anything like it when I made it. It does get used some and is pretty handy for a pistol rest.
 
doubleh said:
You are right about that. Both are priced outrageously for what is there.

Being a tinkerer I daydreamed a little until I had a blueprint in my mind and then went out in the garage and started digging thru my scrap buckets.The results were a clamp that will do anything the hog saddle will for almost no dollars. I did have to buy a small piece of rod to make the guide rods from but everything else including the neoprene sheet used for pads was just left overs. Funny thing is I never warmed up to using it and it sits collecting dust now. Then I came up with about the same rig shown shown circled in VT's post except it is one piece and I had never seen anything like it when I made it. It does get used some and is pretty handy for a pistol rest.
Click to expand...

Like all things, quality costs. The cost for a "decent" tripod set up is about the same as the cost for a "decent" rifle.

I don't mind paying for quality that last.
The whole "buy once, cry once" thing. I would like to get it close to "right" the first time, but like many things, there are a lot of "A Way"s to do it. So it's going to take some experimenting to figure out what works for me.

But, that's also part of the fun.
 
taliv said:
btw, ditch the hog saddle. put a game changer bag on top of the ball head or base and it will be more stable and adjustable than a hog saddle could ever be. it's way faster too.
Click to expand...

I, too, am not a fan of the hog saddle. When the rifle isn't snugged into place, they rattle when stalk, so you need to stalk with the rifle clamped in place (which is what a lot of folks do).

So does the Game Changer bag affix to the ball head or just sit on top of it?
 
Double Naught Spy said:
I, too, am not a fan of the hog saddle. When the rifle isn't snugged into place, they rattle when stalk, so you need to stalk with the rifle clamped in place (which is what a lot of folks do).

So does the Game Changer bag affix to the ball head or just sit on top of it?
Click to expand...

From what I've researched....both. It appears a lot of guys just put it on the ball head, but there are some companies making small platforms that mount to the ball head using ARCA plates.

I played with it again last night, it's stable, and quick. My one concern is weight. Carrying tripod AND bag starts to add up. The Gamechanger bag that I have is just shy of 5lbs. There's a couple companies I've found that make bags with lightweight fill, so the weight comes down to about a 2lbs.
 
I tried to keep my prs gear reasonably practical. The tables and stuff cross that line for me so I always just set the bag on top of the tripod without attaching it. Never saw a value in attaching but I quit the game just as tables were getting popular.

for a stage I like to be able to set the tripod up for just one difficult position on the stage and move the rifle from one position to another and may just use the tripod for one shot. So not attaching works best for me. I do kinda like the rails that attach the bag to the rifle though but never bought one
 
Most PRS matches these days prohibit shooting from tripods, front or rear, but many guys do use the bag on the tripod even for shooting.

That’s how I’ve set up my son while deer hunting the last couple of seasons - OG Gamechanger just sitting over the top of the leveling base.

I do tend to take the ballhead off when bagging on the pod (on my smaller pod), since the head kinda acts like a spindle underneath and lets the bag shift too much. A table and a flat bag like some of the pictures from AG cup I shared above make a lot of sense to me, if using a ballhead.

F565A8FB-FF95-45E3-A4E1-A164F278BFB6.jpeg
 
Chuck R. said:
My one concern is weight. Carrying tripod AND bag starts to add up.
Click to expand...

We all hunt differently. For a lot of coyote hunters I know, the weight would not be an issue because they make a stand in one place and then move only about 50 yards and start anew. In the grand scheme, they are probably never more than a couple hundred yards from a vehicle. For folks like me, it is all about mobility and speed (hogs, not coyotes) and a 5 lb bag would be a problem, but a lighter bag or lighter fill might make that worthwhile if the stability really is that much better. I like to try new things once in a while when I heard of other ways of doing something that work well for others. Sometimes they work for me, sometimes I end up with surplus new gear I need to sell.
 
I carried a Wiebad Mini Fortune Cookie over 60 miles in ~10 days two years ago on a bear and elk hunt. It wasn’t my heavy fill model, just a polypropylene pellet fill, so I saved a few pounds there, but the stability is well worth the weight for versatile little “positional bags” like that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

P
Sunwayfoto carbon fiber tripod.
Replies
0
Views
280
powermad
P
Y
  • Locked
OPS Surgical Speed Shooting AAR
Replies
4
Views
478
YammyMonkey
Y
hso
  • Locked
A positive gvt. note on Katrina operations
Replies
9
Views
510
Fred Fuller
F
C
  • Locked
.50 GI: The Gentle Giant (That Can Kill You) [Multi-post review]
2 3
Replies
64
Views
11K
9mmepiphany
9mmepiphany
Back
Top