RIfle Cartridges That Should Die, Rifle Cartridges That Should Live On Forever?

As someone else said the market will decide what lives or dies through demand. There will always be someone that will have an unpopular cartridge firearm but as long as there is ammo or brass it will live on.

The .308, 30-06, and 30-30 are all as popular as ever it seems so I don't see those going away anytime soon.

.308 Norma said:

The 270 Winchester needs to die because there really is no “niche” between the 25-06 and the 30-06 that needs filling, and if there is, the 280 Remington does a lot better job of filling it. Besides that, the selection of bullet weights available for the 270 Winchester is pathetic, especially compared to its closest cousin - the 280 Remington.

The 270 Winchester should live on forever because it’s a great “all around” cartridge for North American big game hunting - it shoots flat, it hits hard, it’s plenty accurate with the right person behind the trigger, and it doesn’t kick so badly that most people can’t handle it. And while the 270 has its share of detractors due to its relatively small selection of available bullet weights, who cares? Almost all of the North American big game animals that can’t be easily killed with a 130gr bullet from a 270 Winchester, CAN be with a 150gr bullet from a 270 Winchester. Besides, what big game hunters experiment with a bunch of different bullet weights anyway? Most of them just find a bullet (and bullet weight) that works, and stick with it.

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Yup, just get the manufactures to change the twist rate to take advantage of high BC bullets and we'll be seeing threads like:

Why do I need a 6.8 Western when I can do it with my .270 1-9 twist Winchester with 10 grains less powder, cheap plentiful brass, and 8lbs less felt recoil! No animal on the planet is going to know the difference out to 600 yards.

someguy2800 said:

270 winchester can also go ahead and take a dirt nap to be replaced by 6.5C and 280 AI which are both better.and bracket it perfectly in performance.

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That would follow around here: replace one gun with two

I thought long and hard about this thread, but then I realized I'm in no position to throw rocks in a glass house, because I thought of the excess amount of different rounds I have rifles in. Some get used a lot, some not so much. Some for fun, some for training, some for hunting- some I used for hunting to kill a deer with (even if only once) just to say I did it before I put the rifle away:
22 LR (duh)
223/5.56 (see above- training, SD/HD, and used for hogs, deer, turkeys, coyotes, etc)
243 (killed more deer than anything else I have)
300 BLK (Ruger American suppressed- veteran of 4 successful deer hunts- last one by Mrs. Fl-NC)
6.5 CM (another RAR- dropped 2 bucks with it nicely last week, most accurate hunting rifle I have ever owned)
30-30 (model 94, recently gifted to me- dropped a doe with it a few weeks ago)
30-40 Krag carbine- (bought for the cool factor, killed a doe with it last year for the same reason- after I owned it 10 years)
30 carbine- (just for fun, largely worthless for anything others can't do better)
308- to make beautiful music on steel and the occasional deer (all either custom 700's and a couple of higher end AR10 carbines)
30-06- all US MILSURPS that rarely leave the safe
7.62 x 39- an old SKS that has killed deer in the past (when I was broke) and is still used for the challenge of banging steel with a beat up old commie work horse with iron sights and a terrible trigger
I also own a vintage US mil trapdoor Springfield and an all-matching 1943 nazi Mauser with all matching numbers and no import marks. No intention of firing either (don't even own any ammo) but I could see how people with these things may enjoy firing them.

daniel craig said:

All the we Weatherby and noser calibers should die.

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I disagree. I'm probably one of the only guys using it. But 240 Weatherby is an absolute deer and coyote hammer. The other Weatherby cartridges were a bit excessive.

I think the old cartridges should get updated loading data with pressure limits that match the current strength of metal.
Or at least have data for the new powders.

Bfh_auto said:

I disagree. I'm probably one of the only guys using it. But 240 Weatherby is an absolute deer and coyote hammer. The other Weatherby cartridges were a bit excessive.

I think the old cartridges should get updated loading data with pressure limits that match the current strength of metal.
Or at least have data for the new powders.

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I absolutely agree that some of those older calibers definitely need updates. Especially some of the more popular ones that are actually now being made in modern weaponry.

Bfh_auto said:

I disagree. I'm probably one of the only guys using it. But 240 Weatherby is an absolute deer and coyote hammer. The other Weatherby cartridges were a bit excessive.

I think the old cartridges should get updated loading data with pressure limits that match the current strength of metal.
Or at least have data for the new powders.

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daniel craig said:

I absolutely agree that some of those older calibers definitely need updates. Especially some of the more popular ones that are actually now being made in modern weaponry.

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New powders can do wonders for old cartridges.
My work with the 264 Winchester is so far netted me over 3,200 FPS with rl33 and a 140 class projectile. Considering I'm stuck with the relatively stubby 3.3 inch cartridge overall length, that's pretty bloody impressive.......
I really need to buckle down and get to work on reloading for the other barrels on that rifle.....

.25-06 is just super redundant and can go away with nobody to grieve or attend the funeral.

.22 short can finish dying too.

.30-06 and 7mm-08 get to stay forever.

Boattale said:

.25-06 is just super redundant and can go away with nobody to grieve or attend the funeral.

.22 short can finish dying too.

.30-06 and 7mm-08 get to stay forever.

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I kinda have a soft spot for .22 short. It was literally the first metallic cartridge, and still with us today. It’s also said to be better at killing squirrels than 22lr. Why that is I’m not sure, but old timers swore it was so.

Mosin77 said:

I kinda have a soft spot for .22 short. It was literally the first metallic cartridge, and still with us today. It’s also said to be better at killing squirrels than 22lr. Why that is I’m not sure, but old timers swore it was so.

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I too have a soft spot for the 22 Short. I shot a lot of them in my first "real" gun - a Model 55 Winchester that my mom and dad gave me for my 10th birthday in 1958. However, as far as "old timers" swearing the 22 Short was better at killing squirrels goes, I've said in other threads that my dad preferred the 32 WS over the 30-30 for deer hunting because in his words, "The 32 just kills better."
BTW, I have a 30-30 and my wife has a 32 Special. Both are Model 94 Winchesters, but I like hers better because every time I pick it up, I'm reminded of my dad - the anything 32 "old timer."

To live forever

22LR (learning, small games)
223/7.62x39 (varmint)
308 (deers)
300WM (bigger and farther deers)
50 BMG (squirrel)

I don't wish the death of any cartridge. There are a plethora that serve no useful purpose that isn't served equally or better by another chambering but 'so what?'. If we are going to be reasonable and logical we would all be reduced to a handful of cartridge choices. We have so many because someone thought that a little tweak one way or another was going to be "perfect". I don't want to add a bunch more chamberings to my personal use choices but keep 'em coming.-More variations that really make little difference and all the old redundant ones. Fun for everyone.

Whatever that new stupidness 30 carry is, it can go die in the dumpster along with the stupid short mags and ultra short mags. Let die the over-hyped hot new tickets that are forced down our throats by the gun media and manufacturers.


Give me the cartridges that are plentiful and well-known with a cascade of useable brass along with all of the projectiles, powders and primers.

Long live the wildcat builders who continue on to tinker with the lathe and Bridgeport with the drive of an alchemist and the unfettered passion of a naked, crazy, man

Enfielder said:

Whatever that new stupidness 30 carry is

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Never heard of it till today. I will definitely buy that chambered in the right firearm. Great idea in my eyes.

Maybe 6.8 Western should never have been born but once it was, we need to embrace it. The 22 Hornet has no real use in 2022 America, but either does a Shelby Cobra...

The 30-30 is surely surpassed by modern cartridges, but the anatomy of black bears, whitetails and large hogs hasn't really changed all that much since 1894. Maybe slightly larger due to lack of predators and milder winters but not so much a 336 with buck horns or a peep sights isn't the perfect rifle for them east of the Mississippi.

I don't think I have an opinion about which cartridges should die. I'm the guy that bought a deer rifle 30 + years ago & never bought another one because what I have works. My cartridge selection process was simple. I went with what all the old guys I knew said they used. One day I might decide to buy something else to set one of my kids up with, but I doubt I'll ever buy myself another.
I do understand folks that get annoyed with hype. A couple of guys I hunted with believed they had the best rifle/cartridge combination. One was that way about .270. Another was pretty much the same way about 7mm Mag. I never really thought ill of either cartridge & just let them talk. I think some folks just feel a need to tell you why what they have is better than what you have.

Personally, I think .30-06 should live forever. My experience is simple. It has effectively killed every deer I've ever pointed it at. Is it the best choice for everything? Probably not. But I believe it will do anything I am apt to ask of it well enough.

Edited to Add: Thanks everyone for all three recent, "cartridge", threads. Between fighting a sinus infection & messed up weather I've been stuck inside more than usual this past week & y'all have provided a lot of information in a very entertaining way.

Not sure what should go, but will say that personally, I’ll always like established cartridges. Like the 270 win, 308 win, 30-06, 5.56, 7.62, 22 lr etc… I’m sure there’s more than what listed. Just an example.

I like grabbing a rifle for my intended purposes, and being confident that it’ll do what I need it to at the ranges I’ll be using it for. Most any of the time tested, commonly used calibers do that for me.

Nothing wrong with new, or wildcats if that’s what you’re into. I’m just well served by what i know and what I have.

greyling22 said:

the reality is that there are maybe 800 or so rifle calibers (blind guess), and we could get by with 5 or so to realistically cover all our bases. beyond that, they're just fun exercises.

To name 1 example, the m1 carbine and the 30 carbine that goes with it. nobody needs either, but the m1 is a fun piece of history to have, and we need the 30 carbine to feed it. Now, I hate the 30 carbine: proprietary case, tapered case that is harder to size, headspaces off the mouth so trimming is important, hotter than it needs to be to plink with and too anemic to really be a hunting round, not particularly good at anything, but I have one and love shooting it.

but what really needs to die are:
45 acp cases that come in 2 primer sizes
9mm mak that gets mixed in with my 9mm luger.
muzzle brakes at public ranges
brass washed steel cases
berdan primed m1 carbine

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I love my .30Carbine and it don't have a M1Carbine.

I have a Ruger Blackhawk .30 Carbine and it is OUTSTANDING at killing hogs.

I wish Ruger would reissue the Model 94 and 96 in .30 Carbine, along with .44 Mag.

I hate to see a cartridge die, as long as there are arms needing ammo.

I do feel we have many cartridges that do nothing better than long established calibers.

New cartridges are for ONE reason, to sell guns.

Please don't doom any rifle cartridges!!

I think that just the fact a 100 years old rifle can still be shot should be a good enough argument to justify still having cartridges available to shoot it with.

jmr40 said:

Nothing lives forever. They will all eventually die and be replaced.

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How about 22LR or 9mm?

During current and previous component shortages, I have renewed my appreciation for 22LR to shoot in my ARs with CMMG conversion bolts, Gen3 Glock 22 with Advantage Arms slide kit and GSG 1911 22LR while I conserve .223/5.56 and 9mm/40S&W/45ACP ammunition.

As 9mm proliferates in Pistol Caliber Carbines (I started building PCCs during last "great" component shortage of 2013 as I could reload 50 rounds of 9mm for less than $6), 9mm may surpass many other "rifle" calibers.

For me, 22LR and 9mm will live forever ... Well, at least until I die happy.

I wouldn't miss many of the "magnumitis" calibers developed from the 60s through the 80s. Just way overkill for medium game, and you have the 375 H&H and 400s for going after the real big game where that level of power is warranted. It just seems like a excess of barrel-burning, shoulder beating rounds trying to fill a very small niche.

I can understand the seemingly eternal quest to find the perfect deer round between 25 and 30 cal, because millions of people are hunting deer. There's orders of magnitude fewer people going after say Kodiak bears.

On a different note, 40 S&W is the handgun caliber that really needs to go. It always was a bad compromise round.

For rifle calibers that should live forever... I'm sort of a 7mm fan. 7mm Mauser, 7-08, 270 Win... that just seems like the sweet spot for power, range, and recoil.

30-06 too is kind of weird in that it's a "limit" round in several ways. It straddles the line between medium game round and big-game magnum, and it also represents an upper threshold of kick that shooters are comfortable with. For pretty much every deer round below it and magnum above it, it's the measuring stick. Sure it's an archaic design and has been ever since the 308 came out, but its status as a benchmark will likely live on forever.

Enfielder said:

Whatever that new stupidness 30 carry is, it can go die in the dumpster along with the stupid short mags and ultra short mags. Let die the over-hyped hot new tickets that are forced down our throats by the gun media and manufacturers.


Give me the cartridges that are plentiful and well-known with a cascade of useable brass along with all of the projectiles, powders and primers.

Long live the wildcat builders who continue on to tinker with the lathe and Bridgeport with the drive of an alchemist and the unfettered passion of a naked, crazy, man

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I actually like the 30 carry. But I do get annoyed by the cram new stuff down my throat.
I probably won't get one. Just like the 327 fed. Because I can't find the correct gun near me. And my closet is full of close enough to what it is guns.

Mosin Bubba said:

On a different note, 40 S&W is the handgun caliber that really needs to go. It always was a bad compromise round.

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Long live 40!

WisBorn said:

I started the thread, so I will start.

8mm Remington Mag.... It should die. There is not enough companies loading ammunition for it and nobody making reasonable priced rifles for it. The 300 and 338 magnum rifles will cover all of what it will do...

8mm Remington Magnum.... should live forever. It fills a nitch between the 300 & 338 magnum cartridges. IMO is probably the best elk size game rifle cartridge and should be offered in modest priced rifles.

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Love this post and love my 8mm Rem Mag, except when shooting it on the bench