Looks like there may soon be more Constitutional carry states

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"Shall issue" licensing schemes have been a godsend for the firearms instruction industry, as well as a source of funds for local governments. One downside of "constitutional carry" is that these funds would dry up. That's why you have opposition from sheriffs and gun instructors.

I don't think that constitutional carry (really, permitless carry) causes "more idiots" to carry. The "idiots" are already carrying illegally.
 
AlexanderA said:
"Shall issue" licensing schemes have been a godsend for the firearms instruction industry, as well as a source of funds for local governments. One downside of "constitutional carry" is that these funds would dry up. That's why you have opposition from sheriffs and gun instructors.

I don't think that constitutional carry (really, permitless carry) causes "more idiots" to carry. The "idiots" are already carrying illegally.[/QUOTE]
If you want to carry a loaded firearm in public, with the assumption your going to use it to protect yourself, or another from deadly force than you should have some sort of training. My comment was for those first time gun owners walking into the store, buy the gun and shove it in a holster and walk around with it thinking the first person says Boo or i'll kick your rear end to them they can shoot them. People need taught firearm safety, use of force, and marksmanship before being allowed to buy a gun and carry it. This isn't the wild wild west but sure getting there.
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Roknstevo said:
I have never expected anyone to protect my family.....ever. God bless the police, but they cannot protect my family. My better half and I are former military, and we can handle that duty ourselves...and have for the last 40 yrs. Police can investigate and arrest, and that’s great. In my humble opinion, our great constitution has always given my family the right to carry a weapon if we deem it necessary. I have always lived in rural areas, have carried a weapon when I thought it necessary, and have never been arrested for it.....even prior to the concealed carry nonsense was invoked. Some of the people that I know of who have CC permits scare me. Many, I’m convinced, would either shoot themselves or some innocent if a situation ever developed. The constitutional carry “right” being espoused these days is (IMHO) not likely going to prevent Americans from being persecuted and/or prosecuted when forced to defend themselves.....I reserve the right to revise and extend my $.02.....
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I agree with everything you said so well including your choice of boat. I miss my Parker pilothouse I had for 20yrs.
 
Axis II said:
While most of you like this because you think it is a 2A win this opens up the door for more idiots to buy a gun and shove it in their waistband, head to the store and not have a clue about use of force, marksmanship, and just plain gun handling experience. I know people who only have experience of popping a few rounds off at beer cans who cant wait for this to pass so they can throw a pistol in their waistband. I see it every day on the FB community pages where someone says their car or home was broken into and someone says they would shoot someone for breaking into their car. Do we really want these people carrying a gun with absolutely no training?
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it’s been said, Freedom is dangerous
 
I came to the realization a long time ago that when it comes to violent crime, police are just the after-the-fact clean-up crew. Even my LEO friends agreed with that statement.

I choose to believe that 'when someone's trying to kill you, the police are 5 minutes away.' The only person able to defend me and my family in a violent situation, is me. This is all just my $0.02 of course.
 
brmiller said:
I choose to believe that 'when someone's trying to kill you, the police are 5 minutes away.' The only person able to defend me and my family in a violent situation, is me.
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Personal security is a multifaceted endeavor. It includes things like your choice of where to live, your daily routine, your choice of friends, etc. Engaging in a shootout is absolutely your last option. If you've done all the other things right, it should never come to that. With a sane lifestyle, carrying a gun is a low priority. Maybe, for some people, it's a morale booster. You feel more secure when armed.

I have to ask, why is someone trying to kill you? And if they're so intent on killing you, they'll take you by surprise. You won't get a chance to use your gun if it's a premeditated ambush. Even hardcore Mafiosi or drug dealers (armed to the teeth) get murdered all the time. Pro tip: don't associate with Mafiosi or drug dealers.
 
Poper said:
No restrictions for open or concealed carry for law-abiding citizens. I believe gov't bldgs. and banks are no-no's, too. If you are not a prohibited person.
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Axis II said:
While most of you like this because you think it is a 2A win this opens up the door for more idiots to buy a gun and shove it in their waistband, head to the store and not have a clue about use of force, marksmanship, and just plain gun handling experience. I know people who only have experience of popping a few rounds off at beer cans who cant wait for this to pass so they can throw a pistol in their waistband. I see it every day on the FB community pages where someone says their car or home was broken into and someone says they would shoot someone for breaking into their car. Do we really want these people carrying a gun with absolutely no training?
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Constitutional carry has been working just fine in every state that has it.
 
Axis II said:
While most of you like this because you think it is a 2A win this opens up the door for more idiots to buy a gun and shove it in their waistband, head to the store and not have a clue about use of force, marksmanship, and just plain gun handling experience. I know people who only have experience of popping a few rounds off at beer cans who cant wait for this to pass so they can throw a pistol in their waistband. I see it every day on the FB community pages where someone says their car or home was broken into and someone says they would shoot someone for breaking into their car. Do we really want these people carrying a gun with absolutely no training?
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Unfortunately, as been said many times before, freedom is not certified safe. With freedom comes a certain amount of uncertainty and risk. There is no reason fools and below average intelligence individuals cannot exercise their constitutional rights. If/when they cross the line and endanger or injure others, they will have to pay the price for their actions. Be that a monetary one or prison time.
 
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Poper said:
Unfortunately, as been said many times before, freedom is not certified safe. With freedom comes a certain amount of uncertainty and risk.
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Agreed. Also, those who think they have any control over Life and the randomness associated with it in general, are deluding themselves. But that's OK. I mean we still have 'flat-earthers' and other lunatics running around on this rock. You're not in complete control of your life. Never will be. Get over it and enjoy it for what it is. :)
 
Anchorite said:
Not as much as the food-for jails scam where the local sheriff gets to keep the excess.
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That is a very different can of worms with a very easy fix. The law basically is a hold over from the Great Depression, where sheriffs were given incentive to the job by keeping left over food money after inmates were fed. A simple amendment to the law putting leftover money in the general or specific LE funds, instead of as payment to the Sheriff would solve the problem. It isn't against the law to use the money for personal reasons but not many people in the public like it. Smart Sheriffs put the money accounts to fund other issues such as stab vests for detention officers or new light bars for patrol officers. Stupid sheriffs buy beach houses that voters remember come election time.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...-000-meant-to-feed-inmates-bought-beach-house
 
herrwalther said:
That is a very different can of worms with a very easy fix. The law basically is a hold over from the Great Depression, where sheriffs were given incentive to the job by keeping left over food money after inmates were fed. A simple amendment to the law putting leftover money in the general or specific LE funds, instead of as payment to the Sheriff would solve the problem. It isn't against the law to use the money for personal reasons but not many people in the public like it. Smart Sheriffs put the money accounts to fund other issues such as stab vests for detention officers or new light bars for patrol officers. Stupid sheriffs buy beach houses that voters remember come election time.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...-000-meant-to-feed-inmates-bought-beach-house
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I know very well the story. I’m in Baldwin county. For our sheriff, it’s not pistol permits that generates any meaningful revenue, it’s civil forfeitures, court costs, and process serving fees.
 
My wife and I lived in Montgomery County for 4 years, and the sheriff was quite creative with his slush fund. He was also quite against open carry, almost every store had a "no open carry" sign the sheriff "encouraged" them to Poston the front door. I am very surprised the food fund hasn't been challenged in court yet; but as we saw in the above post the sheriff would just make your life miserable.
 
Axis II said:
who cant wait for this to pass so they can throw a pistol in their waistband. I see it every day on the FB community pages where someone says their car or home was broken into and someone says they would shoot someone for breaking into their car. Do we really want these people carrying a gun with absolutely no training?
Click to expand...

AlexanderA said:
The "idiots" are already carrying illegally.
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Took the words right out of my mouth.

All sorts of people out there flagrantly ignoring entire volumes of law left and right.

The requirement for licensing and mandatory training is entirely the European model. You are regulating the bearer rather than the arm. Now, in favor of that, the people who go through all the hoops and training and licensing, will tend to be most zealous firearms owners. That does not necessarily make them better owners, just more focused ones.

The "the instructors will go broke" argument scans a bit thin, as virtually all the Constitutional Carry States retain their various LTC and reciprocities. In "Brady Compliant" States, the License offers (barring State waiting periods) skipping the NICS checks as being redundant.

Yes, responsible firearm owners ought always seek out professional training. Especially when not required. (The State mandated ±8 hours of classroom and ±4-8 hours of range time requirements, are not really "training" not in the proper sense of it,)

The United States managed to stumble along for right at two centuries without any need for licensing of firearms owners. We probably could learn from that history.
 
CapnMac said:
The requirement for licensing and mandatory training is entirely the European model.
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The other part of the "European model" is that a significant number of people ignore these rules and have their guns illegally. (This is more true in Eastern and Southern Europe than in the North and West, and tends to correlate with areas having a history of dictatorship and/or foreign occupation. In these areas, the more draconian the gun rules, the greater the pushback.)

I can tell you that Greece, with some of Europe's strictest gun laws, is nevertheless awash with Kalashnikovs and WW2 holdovers. Hardly a day goes by when someone doesn't rob a minimarket using an AK, although most of the AK's are hidden away and never used.

This should be a lesson for the antigunners here in the U.S. Regardless of the laws that they might pass, they can't erase the gun culture.
 
Poper said:
...
If all go Constitutional Carry, then we would have more than half of the states in the union with Constitutional Carry! Is America great or what?
Maybe things are looking up afterall?...
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Some of those state where Constitutional Carry bills have been introduced have governors that are going to veto that legislation, with no hopes of an override, so if it were me, I'd withhold my enthusiasm until I see the final results.
 
wiscoaster said:
Some of those state where Constitutional Carry bills have been introduced have governors that are going to veto that legislation, with no hopes of an override, so if it were me, I'd withhold my enthusiasm until I see the final results.
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There's a possibility that the Supreme Court might mandate "constitutional carry" throughout the country. Let's see where the pending NY case goes. If not permitless carry, then we might end up with a permit process that's entirely pro forma. The state gets to collect a nominal fee, and you get a little document that nobody would bother to look at.

That said, I don't believe that right-to-carry is the most important aspect of the RKBA. The most important aspect is the right to possession. After all, you can't carry what you can't own. The Achilles' Heel of gun rights is the government's ability to ban whole classes of firearms. That's the case that the SC needs to take.
 
Stevie-Ray said:
I think most are not ignorant, but being the elitists they are, they believe they'll secure a seat at the table. This last year has all but proven this.
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There are some progressive politicians who have said that they have no problem making fun ownership so expensive that only the rich could afford it
 
AlexanderA said:
The other part of the "European model" is that a significant number of people ignore these rules and have their guns illegally. (This is more true in Eastern and Southern Europe than in the North and West, and tends to correlate with areas having a history of dictatorship and/or foreign occupation. In these areas, the more draconian the gun rules, the greater the pushback.)

I can tell you that Greece, with some of Europe's strictest gun laws, is nevertheless awash with Kalashnikovs and WW2 holdovers. Hardly a day goes by when someone doesn't rob a minimarket using an AK, although most of the AK's are hidden away and never used.

This should be a lesson for the antigunners here in the U.S. Regardless of the laws that they might pass, they can't erase the gun culture.
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I've been to Greece, great food, friendly people, beautiful country, but they also have a major problem trying to collect taxes. Big problem with recent immigrants, too. Having been occupied by the Germans in WWII, must be an interesting underground collection of weapons there.

In Sweden guns are highly regulated, as is ammo. To get a hunting license, you have to demonstrate knowledge of the game, pass a shooting test, and show proof you have a place to hunt.

On the other hand, before the recent immigration, they had almost no crime there. That has since changed, and I don't think they are coping well with it at this time.
 
Speedo66 said:
I've been to Greece, great food, friendly people, beautiful country, but they also have a major problem trying to collect taxes. Big problem with recent immigrants, too. Having been occupied by the Germans in WWII, must be an interesting underground collection of weapons there.
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Yes. The Greek people, considering all they've been through, are highly skeptical of their government. The legislature makes laws, and the people obey them -- but only if it suits them. That explains the problem with tax evasion, and the huge number of underground guns. (Besides the WW2 leftovers, hundreds of thousands of AK's were smuggled in from neighboring Albania after the collapse of Communism there.)

America is fast approaching this situation. (Consider the rate of non-compliance with pandemic measures.) The antigunners have to know this. Any serious restrictions on guns would be widely ignored.
 
AlexanderA said:
Yes. The Greek people, considering all they've been through, are highly skeptical of their government. The legislature makes laws, and the people obey them -- but only if it suits them. That explains the problem with tax evasion, and the huge number of underground guns. (Besides the WW2 leftovers, hundreds of thousands of AK's were smuggled in from neighboring Albania after the collapse of Communism there.)

America is fast approaching this situation. (Consider the rate of non-compliance with pandemic measures.) The antigunners have to know this. Any serious restrictions on guns would be widely ignored.
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It's already happened in restrictive states. CT passed laws restricting "large capacity" mags and "assault" weapons, requiring them to be registered.

A minuscule amount were actually registered.
 
Yes, we've already reached the tipping point beyond which gun control won't work. The antigunners are howling at the moon. Why, then, do they persist? The answer is all about the grift (honestly, on both sides of the issue). Luxurious lifestyles of "activists" are being underwritten thanks to the gun issue. For every Shannon Watts there's a Wayne LaPierre, and vice versa. People make their living doing this.
 
Looks like AL may get ours passed.

I have yet to read the final text but I’ve been told it also removes the restrictions on carrying “Bowie knives” I may personally be happier about that than I am about the constitutional carry.

full text is HERE

ETA:
I would just like my fellow AL residents to know the Alabama Sheriff’s Association teamed with Moms demand Action to fight this bill. Politically I think that helped us, some politicians that didn’t want to be seen as opposing law enforcement also didn’t want to be seen as helping Moms demand action/gun control
 
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