Airgun Moderator Question - design improvement ideas?

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Hasaf

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  • I have an unused Tax Stamp for a suppressor that I never built. (it is for an airgun, I don't want this thread to become about legality)
  • I have an Umarex Origin that is between 78 & 82 Db
I playing in Tinkercad (a free drawing program) yesterday. It is a tool that I teach to 6-8th graders and a few of them wanted to see me make something so I made this.

As you can see, it reflects less than a half-hour of work. Really, making the threads took the longest.

I have not actually made one yet, I just made the cutaway that you see in the picture. Can anyone make any design improvement suggestions?

Keep in mind, it prints as a single chunk, designs that involve absorbing materials are harder to make, not impossible, just harder.

Cutway-Suppressor.jpg

I just had a great idea, and it makes a suppressor that can not fit on anything other than airguns. I am going to see about knocking this one out in today's drawing class. Yes, the students like to see the teachers work on personal projects. Several have said that it gives them ideas for ways to work on their own projects.
 
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I'm no expert, but it seems like most firearm designs like to have a large initial blast chamber. Dunno if that's relevant to an airgun, but I would assume that the blast chamber size would be least informed by the bore swept volume, if nothing else. It might be interesting to try two designs, one with the first baffle and one without.

I have a hunch that the threads and the baffles are going to be short-lived; without any evidence, I think that you're gonna need a fillet where the baffles meet the wall of the can since that's where I expect the gas to be concentrated by the baffle design.
 
I think that you're gonna need a fillet where the baffles meet the wall of the can since that's where I expect the gas to be concentrated by the baffle design.

Great point, that will go in V.2
 
I would love to have a cutaway as a display......how much and how big can you make then?
I will send you a link to the file later, I am at work right now. There are some other cutaway suppressors on Thingverse. Your library will typically charge 10 cents per gram and the one you saw weighed about 19 grams.
 
Save your stamp.....US v Michael Crooker is controlling. Use a different thread, and make the can self destruct if forced onto a powder burner, and ATF cannot say a word. On AG supps, an air stripper spaced somewhere around 1/2 to 1 caliber from the muzzle aids in effectiveness.

(dang I can't express myself tonight):eek:
 
Save your stamp.....US v Michael Crooker is controlling. Use a different thread, and make the can self destruct if forced onto a powder burner, and ATF cannot say a word. On AG supps, an air stripper spaced somewhere around 1/2 to 1 caliber from the muzzle aids in effectiveness.

(dang I can't express myself tonight):eek:

ATF will still consider a self-destructing silencer a silencer. Durability and efficacy are not factors.

But as long as it was designed and intended for airguns and not readily usable on a firearm, good to go. So give it some goofball thread that only your air rifles have. 7/16-32 or something.
 
But as long as it was designed and intended for airguns and not readily usable on a firearm, good to go. So give it some goofball thread that only your air rifles have. 7/16-32 or something.

Here is V.2 and you can see that I changed the threads. The threads that are now on it match the threads on the inside of the barrel shroud.

The odd space that would be inside the shroud is intended to be filled by something like a scotchbrite pad. The part that presses aginst the barrel is a rather standard part called an "Air Stripper" and seems to be common with these air rifles, the only change is that I put in a groove for an O ring instead of relying on "close fit".

I think I am getting close to the final version.
Air-modulator-V2-cutaway-external.jpg
img.jpg
 
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/are-paintball-and-airgun-sound-suppressers-considered-nfa-weapons
Are paintball and airgun sound suppressers considered NFA weapons?
The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

Numerous paintball and airgun silencers tested by ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch have been determined to be firearm silencers by nature of their design and function. Because silencers are NFA weapons, an individual wishing to manufacture or transfer such a silencer must receive prior approval from ATF and pay the required tax.

[26 U.S.C. 5845; 27 CFR 479.11]
By nature of their design and function.

Then there is this old 2006 article from Pyramid Air: https://www.pyramydair.com/article/Airgun_silencers_What_s_the_big_deal_August_2006/32
and an update:https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2019/03/silencers-an-update/

Here's a link to their air gun silencers: https://www.pyramydair.com/accessories/misc/silencers Please note the descriptions carefully as well as they seem to be muzzlebreaks and candidly admit they dont reduce the sound.
Notably, there doesn't seem to be very many companies making actual silencers that attach to airguns. I did find some posts from a nitwit that claims because airguns arent firearms (true) a silencer for one cannot be regulated by federal law (false)........thats because silencers and parts of a silencer are considered firearms by themselves.

ATF Ruling 2005-4 is in regards to Paintball guns with ported barrels but needs reading https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ruling/2005-4-ported-device-attached-barrel-paintball-gun/download

",,,,,,,The sole issue presented is whether the ported barrel and outer sleeve are a
firearm muffler or firearm silencer as defined in the GCA and NFA.

The design characteristics of the ported barrel and outer sleeve are similar to
those of conventional commercial silencers. The barrel is ported to allow the
escape of gases from a fired round and the outer sleeve dampens or muffles the
sound when a round is fired. Moreover, the sound meter test indicates a reduction
of 7.98 decibels when the ported barrel and sleeve were attached to a .22 caliber
pistol, which is consistent with the sound reduction resulting from the use of
commercial silencers.

Noteworthy, the definition of “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” requires that
the device be one for diminishing the report of a portable firearm. The device
under consideration is permanently attached to and an integral part of a paintball
gun, which is not a firearm as defined in the GCA or NFA. The device cannot be
removed from the paintball gun without destroying the barrel and rendering the
paintball gun unusable. Under these circumstances, the integral device is not a
firearm muffler or firearm silencer.

However, once the device is cut from the paintball gun, it can be used to diminish
the report of a firearm. As stated previously, the design characteristics of the
device are consistent with those of commercial silencers, and testing indicates that
the device functions to reduce the report of the firearm. Moreover, removal of the
device from the paintball gun indicates some intention to utilize the device for
something other than reducing the report of the paintball gun. Because the device
will no longer be permanently attached to an unregulated item, and because of its
silencer design characteristics, removal will result in the making of a silencer under
the NFA and GCA. This is consistent with the definition of “make” in the NFA, as
removal of the device results in production of a silencer......"

It seems as long as the airgun incorporates an integral silencer it is fine (as the above ruling explains). But if removable, it isn't going to matter what threads you have on it....it needs a tax stamp.
 
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/are-paintball-and-airgun-sound-suppressers-considered-nfa-weapons

By nature of their design and function.

Then there is this old 2006 article from Pyramid Air: https://www.pyramydair.com/article/Airgun_silencers_What_s_the_big_deal_August_2006/32
and an update:https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2019/03/silencers-an-update/

Here's a link to their air gun silencers: https://www.pyramydair.com/accessories/misc/silencers Please note the descriptions carefully as well as they seem to be muzzlebreaks and candidly admit they dont reduce the sound.
Notably, there doesn't seem to be very many companies making actual silencers that attach to airguns. I did find some posts from a nitwit that claims because airguns arent firearms (true) a silencer for one cannot be regulated by federal law (false)........thats because silencers and parts of a silencer are considered firearms by themselves.

ATF Ruling 2005-4 is in regards to Paintball guns with ported barrels but needs reading https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ruling/2005-4-ported-device-attached-barrel-paintball-gun/download

",,,,,,,The sole issue presented is whether the ported barrel and outer sleeve are a
firearm muffler or firearm silencer as defined in the GCA and NFA.

The design characteristics of the ported barrel and outer sleeve are similar to
those of conventional commercial silencers. The barrel is ported to allow the
escape of gases from a fired round and the outer sleeve dampens or muffles the
sound when a round is fired. Moreover, the sound meter test indicates a reduction
of 7.98 decibels when the ported barrel and sleeve were attached to a .22 caliber
pistol, which is consistent with the sound reduction resulting from the use of
commercial silencers.

Noteworthy, the definition of “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” requires that
the device be one for diminishing the report of a portable firearm. The device
under consideration is permanently attached to and an integral part of a paintball
gun, which is not a firearm as defined in the GCA or NFA. The device cannot be
removed from the paintball gun without destroying the barrel and rendering the
paintball gun unusable. Under these circumstances, the integral device is not a
firearm muffler or firearm silencer.

However, once the device is cut from the paintball gun, it can be used to diminish
the report of a firearm. As stated previously, the design characteristics of the
device are consistent with those of commercial silencers, and testing indicates that
the device functions to reduce the report of the firearm. Moreover, removal of the
device from the paintball gun indicates some intention to utilize the device for
something other than reducing the report of the paintball gun. Because the device
will no longer be permanently attached to an unregulated item, and because of its
silencer design characteristics, removal will result in the making of a silencer under
the NFA and GCA. This is consistent with the definition of “make” in the NFA, as
removal of the device results in production of a silencer......"

It seems as long as the airgun incorporates an integral silencer it is fine (as the above ruling explains). But if removable, it isn't going to matter what threads you have on it....it needs a tax stamp.


DTom: Your cites and quotes are all from prior to 2010 and here is the latest from 2010 https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-1st-circuit/1527670.html This is the decision in US v Michael Crooker. Yeah he's no saint. But the law is now,,if the can is NOT made for a FIREARM,,the ATF has no say. Anyone who ADAPTS the can to a firearm is the one who "made" the illegal supressor.
 
Now I am interested. I have air guns that could ambush muskrats that are excavating my silo foundation. They would become infinitely more useful if they were quiet.
But I don’t want to lose my real suppressors by hose clamping a PVC tube to my Crossman, which is the state we live in now.
 
DTom: Your cites and quotes are all from prior to 2010 and here is the latest from 2010 https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-1st-circuit/1527670.html This is the decision in US v Michael Crooker. Yeah he's no saint.
No, they aren't....one link is a 2019 article at Pyramid.
I know about the Crooker case. It really hasn't changed anything in regards to federal law.
Note that ATF Ruling 2005-4 is still active.


But the law is now,,if the can is NOT made for a FIREARM,,the ATF has no say.
Well no. The law did not change. It's still the same law as it was before the Crooker case.
From my laymans reading of that decision, it seems the verdict was reversed because of faulty jury instructions:
...The misinstruction in this case would justify a new trial, rather than acquittal, if the government had offered evidence that could allow the jury to find beyond a reasonable doubt that Crooker had a purpose to have the device function as firearm silencer.   But it had an incentive to develop such evidence-it would have been relevant evidence both of Crooker's knowledge and the device's capabilities (and the judge so instructed the jury)-and even on appeal the government does not claim that it could show illicit purpose.   Thus, Crooker is entitled to an acquittal....

If a criminal court reversed a conviction for bank robbery, it doesn't make bank robbery legal.
You might beat the rap (as did Crooker), but you never beat the ride.
Thats called a clue as to why there are few if any actual stand alone silencer for airguns.
 
Legal or not legal, the OP mentioned School. How would such an item go over in a school when some one mentions it's "for a gun"!:what:

Pictures and Pop Tarts get them excited!
 
Legal or not legal, the OP mentioned School. How would such an item go over in a school when some one mentions it's "for a gun"!:what:

Pictures and Pop Tarts get them excited!

Here is the truth, no one cares. Our metal shop teacher has kids walking around campus with medieval weapons a good amount of the time. All of the district "Gun-Free Zone" signs were removed a couple of years ago.

The principal did see the cut-away in my classroom. She was just glad that some of the kids found it engaging.
 
Here is the truth, no one cares. Our metal shop teacher has kids walking around campus with medieval weapons a good amount of the time. All of the district "Gun-Free Zone" signs were removed a couple of years ago.

The principal did see the cut-away in my classroom. She was just glad that some of the kids found it engaging.

Good to hear. Heck I didn't think they had shop class anymore.

Guess there is some sanity left in places like Kansas:)
 
but you never beat the ride.
Bingo. How long has Diversified Machine been locked up? Maybe they’ll get around to charging him soon?
And if they, somehow, decide they’re wrong, they just say “oops” and walk away, while the citizen is still destroyed.
I don’t play with that fire.

Yea E-forms! Quick, easy and legal!:thumbup:
 
Bingo. How long has Diversified Machine been locked up? Maybe they’ll get around to charging him soon?

Chris has been charged with all kinds of felonies, and there are conspiracy charges involving a couple other guys. It seems there was a bit more going on than just solvent traps.
 
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