forward observer
Member
Although I've shot and collected black powder firearms for about 50 years now, I have never attempted to collect anything original from the ACW. I mean I have a couple of nice Italian-made muskets plus dozens of Colt 2nd gen revolvers but just nothing original.
Anyway, I decided to rectify the situation and I had sort of set my sights on a Springfield Model 1863 Type I or II musket--still in shootable condition. Sometimes a type II gets called the model 1864 since most bear that lock date. For a month or more, I just couldn't find anything that met my price and condition criteria. I think the used market supply is a bit tight right now anyway.
At one point, I had bookmarked a couple of prospects from an auction on Proxibid but then forgot to go back and really check them out. When I finally remembered over a week later and signed back on, the auction was already in progress with only one left. The one left was fairly nice but there was no mention of the bore condition and since it was about 30 minutes away from the block there was no time to message the auction house. Still, the barrel and metal surfaces were so nice, I took a chance--figuring that the bore might be the same ballpark.
I put in a max pre-bid that was just above the middle of the auction house's min and max estimate and set back to watch what happened. I had also figured in the buyer's premium for my calculations. I use this method 95% of the time and try to avoid active bidding by letting the proxy system counter other bids for me. It keeps me out of trouble and helps avoid buyer's remorse for overpaying.
This auction was mostly modern firearms so evidently, there were no ACW or muzzleloading fans bidding. I got lucky and won the musket for about $200 less than my max bid, which in turn covered the buyer's premium.
It arrived last Thursday in good order appearing to be just like the many (20 plus) lightbox photos in the auction listing. More auction houses should do this.
Below are a few of the auction photos that convinced me to bid.
A lockside profile. It's an M1863 type 1. Note this musket has been blued which is incorrect for the wartime Springfield muskets. They were all produced in "armory bright" with the later 1863/4s having color case hardened locks and hammers. The rear sights were blued on most. They did generally not start bluing everything until the early M1868 Trapdoors.
A picture of the lock and hammer showing a bit of original case color
The opposite side still shows a readable E.S.A (Erskine S. Allin) the master Armorer at Springfield and a smaller less clear acceptance cartouche. I determined once I got it in from the lack of any real deep marks and the lightness of the cartouches that its wood had probably been lightly sanded and refinished at some point.
A top shot of the breech area with sharp metal edges and clear proof stamps. This was an indication that the metal had not been over polished prior to bluing. Some accumulated dust-- making the nipple look grungy but no rust. Note the color case showing on the hammer.
The muzzle area had an odd serrated jag-tipped ramrod. These should have a tulip-shaped tip on the ramrod. The bluing was likely period done since it was thin in places and also had started to have a plum/brown tone in others. There was no indication of rifling since the bore was not well lit.
The last auction shot of the buttstock bearing a stamp in the wood comprised of a spread eagle over the words: "Whitney Arms Co." Of course, the Whitney armory founded by Eli Whitney Sr. and later managed by Whitney Jr. was an important player during the war providing both revolvers and muskets to the Union. They had also produced the Colt Walkers for Sam Colt in 1847. Note some water staining next to the butt plate.
The one book I had that mentioned any Whitney involvement with the M1863s was John Reilly's book titled: "United States Military Small Arms 1816-1865" At 265 pages it's not that comprehensive and only includes line drawings of all of the arms it describes. However, it did mention the Whitney marked M1863s. Reilly speculated that these rare examples might be proof that Springfield sub-contracted the fabrication of some of their stocks during this period. That made little sense to me as I couldn't imagine the Springfield armory using parts with such an obvious subcontractor's advertising logo on it.
Consequently, I posted some of these pictures on an ACW forum that I occasionally visit to get some opinions. At first, everybody suggested that I simply remove the bluing, replace the ramrod with the correct tulip-tipped model and consider the stamp a bonus.
Then, along came a single poster who knew the explanation for the Whitney stamp and who advised against making any changes. He had owned one of these and knew the actual background. It turned out that after the war ended the Whitney Armory purchased 6900 each of either unissued or lightly used M1863 type I Springfields at surplus prices from the ordinance department in order to refurbish them to sell commercially. All they did was to factory blue them and update the Ramrod to the Jag-tip. Theoretically, they would have been sold by Whitney to various retailers of the period. Then they would be sold to possible settlers headed west, maybe military schools for drill, or even GAR honor guards.
His position was that to remove the bluing and change the ramrod back would devalue the historical value of the musket. This is usually the most acceptable position but there are other factors that support a pretty good opposing argument which I'll relate at the end.
Anyway, the musket arrived late last Thursday in fine order. Externally, it looked pretty much like the auction photos but my first concern was the bore condition.
I did run a couple of oiled patches down the bore followed by some dry patches. I got just a hint of surface rust, but it went away after 2 or 3 subsequent patches.
I had purchased one of those tiny fishing lure lights that can be dropped down the barrel to light up a muzzleloader but after using it last I had put it in a safe spot---so safe that I couldn't find it. I used the next best method which was to wrap a small square of aluminum foil shiny side out around the base of an empty cartridge casing, then drop it down the bore with the shiny side up.
Next, one simply shines a normal bore light down the barrel. It takes a little adjustment to both shine the light correctly and still see the bore but to my surprise, I was looking at what appeared to be an unfired, brand spanking new shiny bore with sharp-edged lands and grooves. It was still perfectly blued. I suddenly felt like I had won the blind auction Lotto. How many unused bores are found on 159-year-old muskets nowadays?
I can only guess that it got sold to a military school or some marching honor guard who never did anything with the musket but close order drill.
I did get to Bass Pro Sunday to buy another lure light. I could not get my SLR to autofocus and I was too impatient to deal with going through all the manual settings, so I snapped this with my iPhone. It's not totally in focus, but one can still get an idea of how smooth the bore is.
Here's a close up of the lock and hammer with lots of case color still showing--mostly on the hammer
I also got a chance to take the butt plate off and work on correcting the water stains. Here's a side by side before and after shot
Lastly, here's a glamour layout with a repro bayonet and some appropriate leather accessories.
I just got in an original bayonet and scabbard but too late to go back and add them to the picture.
Yes, I forgot to include a cap pouch.
Now as to the bluing and the ramrod. I am still tempted to take the gun back to its ACW configuration, but of course, if it going to ruin the value I won't.
However, doing an internet search, I found 5 more of these that have sold in the last two years. Two were on Rock Island late last year, one on Cowans and two from antique firearms dealers. All but one had been returned to the ACW configuration but all still had the Whitney arms stamp. The one that had been left alone had been in the poorest condition but it still sold for $1800. The others which all had been returned to wartime configuration sold from a low of $2185 to the one linked below that sold on Rock Island for the ridiculous price of $5473 last September. One reason might be that it came out of the George Moller collection. Moller is the very man who wrote the book that provided the information about the sale of the muskets to Whitney.
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/83/212
Even Rock Island who had the Moller books in their possession skirted around the story hoping to get the best price they could and they did. I am firmly convinced that the appraisers at RIA are either former carnies or snake oil salesmen.
The Cowans auction from 2020 got $2900 for theirs--once again returned to ACW configuration
In other words, because this information is so obscure many people who have purchased these rifles over the years have restored them to ACW configuration further increasing the rarity of the guns as Whitney sold them but paradoxically other subsequent buyers who also don't know or care, seem to be willing to pay more for the ACW version--totally ignoring the Whitney stamp
Now I paid almost $400 less (including delivery) than the low of $1800 so I don't think I can get hurt regardless of what I do.
OK, I know this was long and maybe boring to some but if you stayed with me this far --- any comments are welcome.
Cheers
Anyway, I decided to rectify the situation and I had sort of set my sights on a Springfield Model 1863 Type I or II musket--still in shootable condition. Sometimes a type II gets called the model 1864 since most bear that lock date. For a month or more, I just couldn't find anything that met my price and condition criteria. I think the used market supply is a bit tight right now anyway.
At one point, I had bookmarked a couple of prospects from an auction on Proxibid but then forgot to go back and really check them out. When I finally remembered over a week later and signed back on, the auction was already in progress with only one left. The one left was fairly nice but there was no mention of the bore condition and since it was about 30 minutes away from the block there was no time to message the auction house. Still, the barrel and metal surfaces were so nice, I took a chance--figuring that the bore might be the same ballpark.
I put in a max pre-bid that was just above the middle of the auction house's min and max estimate and set back to watch what happened. I had also figured in the buyer's premium for my calculations. I use this method 95% of the time and try to avoid active bidding by letting the proxy system counter other bids for me. It keeps me out of trouble and helps avoid buyer's remorse for overpaying.
This auction was mostly modern firearms so evidently, there were no ACW or muzzleloading fans bidding. I got lucky and won the musket for about $200 less than my max bid, which in turn covered the buyer's premium.
It arrived last Thursday in good order appearing to be just like the many (20 plus) lightbox photos in the auction listing. More auction houses should do this.
Below are a few of the auction photos that convinced me to bid.
A lockside profile. It's an M1863 type 1. Note this musket has been blued which is incorrect for the wartime Springfield muskets. They were all produced in "armory bright" with the later 1863/4s having color case hardened locks and hammers. The rear sights were blued on most. They did generally not start bluing everything until the early M1868 Trapdoors.
A picture of the lock and hammer showing a bit of original case color
The opposite side still shows a readable E.S.A (Erskine S. Allin) the master Armorer at Springfield and a smaller less clear acceptance cartouche. I determined once I got it in from the lack of any real deep marks and the lightness of the cartouches that its wood had probably been lightly sanded and refinished at some point.
A top shot of the breech area with sharp metal edges and clear proof stamps. This was an indication that the metal had not been over polished prior to bluing. Some accumulated dust-- making the nipple look grungy but no rust. Note the color case showing on the hammer.
The muzzle area had an odd serrated jag-tipped ramrod. These should have a tulip-shaped tip on the ramrod. The bluing was likely period done since it was thin in places and also had started to have a plum/brown tone in others. There was no indication of rifling since the bore was not well lit.
The last auction shot of the buttstock bearing a stamp in the wood comprised of a spread eagle over the words: "Whitney Arms Co." Of course, the Whitney armory founded by Eli Whitney Sr. and later managed by Whitney Jr. was an important player during the war providing both revolvers and muskets to the Union. They had also produced the Colt Walkers for Sam Colt in 1847. Note some water staining next to the butt plate.
The one book I had that mentioned any Whitney involvement with the M1863s was John Reilly's book titled: "United States Military Small Arms 1816-1865" At 265 pages it's not that comprehensive and only includes line drawings of all of the arms it describes. However, it did mention the Whitney marked M1863s. Reilly speculated that these rare examples might be proof that Springfield sub-contracted the fabrication of some of their stocks during this period. That made little sense to me as I couldn't imagine the Springfield armory using parts with such an obvious subcontractor's advertising logo on it.
Consequently, I posted some of these pictures on an ACW forum that I occasionally visit to get some opinions. At first, everybody suggested that I simply remove the bluing, replace the ramrod with the correct tulip-tipped model and consider the stamp a bonus.
Then, along came a single poster who knew the explanation for the Whitney stamp and who advised against making any changes. He had owned one of these and knew the actual background. It turned out that after the war ended the Whitney Armory purchased 6900 each of either unissued or lightly used M1863 type I Springfields at surplus prices from the ordinance department in order to refurbish them to sell commercially. All they did was to factory blue them and update the Ramrod to the Jag-tip. Theoretically, they would have been sold by Whitney to various retailers of the period. Then they would be sold to possible settlers headed west, maybe military schools for drill, or even GAR honor guards.
His position was that to remove the bluing and change the ramrod back would devalue the historical value of the musket. This is usually the most acceptable position but there are other factors that support a pretty good opposing argument which I'll relate at the end.
Anyway, the musket arrived late last Thursday in fine order. Externally, it looked pretty much like the auction photos but my first concern was the bore condition.
I did run a couple of oiled patches down the bore followed by some dry patches. I got just a hint of surface rust, but it went away after 2 or 3 subsequent patches.
I had purchased one of those tiny fishing lure lights that can be dropped down the barrel to light up a muzzleloader but after using it last I had put it in a safe spot---so safe that I couldn't find it. I used the next best method which was to wrap a small square of aluminum foil shiny side out around the base of an empty cartridge casing, then drop it down the bore with the shiny side up.
Next, one simply shines a normal bore light down the barrel. It takes a little adjustment to both shine the light correctly and still see the bore but to my surprise, I was looking at what appeared to be an unfired, brand spanking new shiny bore with sharp-edged lands and grooves. It was still perfectly blued. I suddenly felt like I had won the blind auction Lotto. How many unused bores are found on 159-year-old muskets nowadays?
I can only guess that it got sold to a military school or some marching honor guard who never did anything with the musket but close order drill.
I did get to Bass Pro Sunday to buy another lure light. I could not get my SLR to autofocus and I was too impatient to deal with going through all the manual settings, so I snapped this with my iPhone. It's not totally in focus, but one can still get an idea of how smooth the bore is.
Here's a close up of the lock and hammer with lots of case color still showing--mostly on the hammer
I also got a chance to take the butt plate off and work on correcting the water stains. Here's a side by side before and after shot
Lastly, here's a glamour layout with a repro bayonet and some appropriate leather accessories.
I just got in an original bayonet and scabbard but too late to go back and add them to the picture.
Yes, I forgot to include a cap pouch.
Now as to the bluing and the ramrod. I am still tempted to take the gun back to its ACW configuration, but of course, if it going to ruin the value I won't.
However, doing an internet search, I found 5 more of these that have sold in the last two years. Two were on Rock Island late last year, one on Cowans and two from antique firearms dealers. All but one had been returned to the ACW configuration but all still had the Whitney arms stamp. The one that had been left alone had been in the poorest condition but it still sold for $1800. The others which all had been returned to wartime configuration sold from a low of $2185 to the one linked below that sold on Rock Island for the ridiculous price of $5473 last September. One reason might be that it came out of the George Moller collection. Moller is the very man who wrote the book that provided the information about the sale of the muskets to Whitney.
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/83/212
Even Rock Island who had the Moller books in their possession skirted around the story hoping to get the best price they could and they did. I am firmly convinced that the appraisers at RIA are either former carnies or snake oil salesmen.
The Cowans auction from 2020 got $2900 for theirs--once again returned to ACW configuration
In other words, because this information is so obscure many people who have purchased these rifles over the years have restored them to ACW configuration further increasing the rarity of the guns as Whitney sold them but paradoxically other subsequent buyers who also don't know or care, seem to be willing to pay more for the ACW version--totally ignoring the Whitney stamp
Now I paid almost $400 less (including delivery) than the low of $1800 so I don't think I can get hurt regardless of what I do.
OK, I know this was long and maybe boring to some but if you stayed with me this far --- any comments are welcome.
Cheers
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