Meaning of $349 complete ARs for the Second Amendment

Status
Not open for further replies.
jmorris said:
They indicate there is not the supply chain issues with them, other products are currently experiencing.
Click to expand...
Could that be due to the fact that BCA manufactures the barrels themselves and assembles upper/lower receivers in the USA? Similarly, Anderson also manufactures receivers themselves from US forgings? ;)

Which all indicates to me, especially with what's happening with China and Russia, that returning manufacturing back again to USA may be a good thing. :thumbup:

DoubleMag said:
LiveLife said:
While these are just about the lowest prices I have seen for free-float MLok AR15s in recent decades, what do they indicate?
Click to expand...
Something possibly overlooked.
Click to expand...
If you read the OP, I wasn't talking about lack of quality control but rather the fact that $350 AR15s are reality to make them not only cheaper than popular pistols and more importantly to make them "common in use" to fulfill the judicial branch/US Supreme Court's "enforcement" of the Bill of Rights.

AR15s and other magazine fed semi-auto firearms are the modern forms of "arms" just as emails and texting are modern forms of communication/free speech protected by the First Amendment.
 
The more of We who are “us”, the less of they who would be “them”.
I like inexpensive firearms. I like expensive ones too! May the waters be vast, as well as deep!:)

Perhaps all those who received Child Tax Credit payments from Joe Shmoe could use a months worth to buy a rifle and some magazines and a box or two of ammunition. That sure would be would be something!:D
 
LiveLife said:
When complete AR15s are selling for less than many popular pistols, in my opinion, time really has come for people to not only buy affordable firearms but that AR15 has really become "common in use" for recreational shooting, sporting/match shooting, hunting and in particular, for self defense.
Click to expand...

Gun sales are dropping due to the glut of guns already purchased during the pandemic along with the sky high ammo prices that are making people reconsider additional firearms purchases.

However, are the firearms affordable if people can't afford to shoot them? When gas prices hit $10 a gallon, what is going to happen to large car sales, LOL. We have seen a similar pattern previously. Gas guzzler vehicle prices tended to drop as automakers could not move them off the lots because people didn't want to or couldn't afford to feed them fuel.
 
LiveLife said:
Primary Arms recently had complete AR for $399 - https://www.primaryarms.com/radical...-barrel-mft-stock-grip-primary-arms-exclusive

Now Bear Creek Arsenal has complete ARs for $349 - https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/ar-15/ar-15-rifles.html

While these are just about the lowest prices I have seen for free-float MLok AR15s in recent decades, what do they indicate?

When complete AR15s are selling for less than many popular pistols, in my opinion, time really has come for people to not only buy affordable firearms but that AR15 has really become "common in use" for recreational shooting, sporting/match shooting, hunting and in particular, for self defense.

Just as seemingly everyone has "cell phones" to exercise their First Amendment right to communicate and free speech of talking, email, texting and engage in forums/social media; now more than ever, ownership of AR15 has become more affordable for everyone to exercise their Second Amendment right.

And our society, especially the courts all the way to the US Supreme Court now have to take this into consideration for Second Amendment case rulings, as they have for expansion of First Amendment protection for modern forms of communication.

Our gun rights future just got brighter.
Click to expand...


That's a good observation.
 
herrwalther said:
PSA has probably put more budget ARs into the hands of people than any other brand. Regardless what you think about quality, they got ARs out the door to a vast number of Americans. BCA and others are getting on board if they can maintain the production. The more AR15s in circulation, the better. Nothing says in common use like every household have 1 or 10 ARs.
Click to expand...

I remember when Jamin was selling surplus pulled 30 cal bullets and surplus 4895 out of his little shed at his old house in Pomaria .... he even met me with my order in the parking lot at the old Piggly Wiggly a couple of times, off of I-26 at the Peak Pomaria exit ... he was still teaching accounting and economics at my UofSC back then. #GoGamecocks!

He really went out on a limb with PSA. It was a huge risky move. At the time the talk was about the last Palmetto State Armory pre Civil War, like 1855-1859 or so ... how it failed. Everyone told him not to do it. Jamin was on a mission when he aquired the right to own the name and he swore to make it work.

He's done it by putting pride and freedom before profit. He said from the get-go that his mission was to put an AR in the hands of every freedom loving lawful American in this country ... and he meant it.

His mission statement is one of the best:

OUR MISSION IS TO MAXIMIZE FREEDOM, NOT OUR PROFITS. WE WANT TO SELL AS MANY AR-15 AND AK-47 RIFLES AS WE CAN AND PUT THEM INTO COMMON USE IN AMERICA TODAY. OUR FOCUS ISN'T TO MAKE MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF MONEY BUT TO SPREAD FREEDOM AS FAR AND WIDE AS POSSIBLE. OUR LEGACY WILL NOT BE ABOUT MONEY; WE WANT OUR LEGACY TO BE ABOUT MAXIMIZING AMERICAN FREEDOM. AND WE WORK EVERY DAY TO DO JUST THAT. WE MAKE HIGH-QUALITY FIREARMS AT AFFORDABLE PRICES FOR EVERYONE! THEN WE BACK THEM WITH A FULL LIFETIME WARRANTY.
 
A little before the shutdown Anderson lowers were available at my local shop $35 out the door and NHTMG 20 round mags were $9 shipped if you bought 5 or so.
Promag sights, which are pretty good for $20.
Palmetto had rifle kits for $290/free shipping. So a complete AR for $354, with sights, and a magazine.
Yea I know it was a kit, but good times!

I saw PSA doing decent kits cheap again this week. Nice that other makers are too, especially for the people who don't do kits.
 
CapnMac said:
Which is probably reinforced by the 9mm PSA is selling for $229 (a C2a, I want to remember)
That every good man can be armed, regardless of means does not seem a bad thing to me.
Click to expand...

You're referring-to the Dagger, I finally got to shoot one this morning. (Not a Glock clone!) Lol, they kept telling us that this morning.

It's a good pistol though ... the price is more like $300 and it goes up from there.

They are about to introduce a new PSA pistol next month ... a 5.7, I forget the name, they told us this morning. Rocket maybe ... dang, how did I forget that. I'll find it in thr handout.
 
LiveLife said:
Which all indicates to me, especially with what's happening with China and Russia, that returning manufacturing back again to USA may be a good thing.
Click to expand...

We knew that before they sent production overseas. From the start we knew the benefit was to the businesses, trying move production to cheaper less restrictive locations. Not to improve the workers lives or The USA.
 
What I'm curious about- I thought complete rifles had additional taxes and fees added to the price, it was supposed to be cheaper to buy an upper and a lower.

Best I can find a complete lower is maybe $125 (other than the polymer ones, which I don't want, at $99). Best I've seen for a complete upper is at BCA, which sometimes approaches $200 (mostly pistols).... it seems cheaper to buy one complete now.
 
I broke down and finally ordered a 450 Bushmaster upper for $249. $0.00 for Fedex ground shipping and they don't even collect Iowa sales tax. Now I need to figure out which optic I have that can stand up to 450 BM recoil.
 
I have regrettably in the past gone down the cheap AR path and you get what you pay for. Learned my lesson the hard way. I'm not saying that you might as well throw $350 in the trash can but... Even if they shoot straight for the first thousand rounds, I know of several horror stories with broken bolts every few thousand rounds and polymer lowers don't last forever even if they are inexpensive and hold up for a while.
 
reddog81 said:
I broke down and finally ordered a 450 Bushmaster upper for $249. $0.00 for Fedex ground shipping and they don't even collect Iowa sales tax. Now I need to figure out which optic I have that can stand up to 450 BM recoil.
Click to expand...
450 is a great platform. $249 is a good price for an upper unless you mean complete upper with barrel, bolt, etc, then it is an insane price and I would ask who makes it lol
 
Archibald Stanton said:
450 is a great platform. $249 is a good price for an upper unless you mean complete upper with barrel, bolt, etc, then it is an insane price and I would ask who makes it lol
Click to expand...

Same company linked in the original post - BCA (Bear Creek Arsenal). The upper includes all items mentioned made in-house by BCA along with MLOK rail. Their 450's all have side charging handle. I already have a Ruger bolt action in 450 BM. I have been hesitant to get the AR because brass is expensive and much easier to keep track of with the bolt action, but I figured I would end up with one eventually...
 
Archibald Stanton said:
I'm not saying that you might as well throw $350 in the trash can but... Even if they shoot straight for the first thousand rounds, I know of several horror stories with broken bolts every few thousand rounds
Click to expand...
Just a couple points here-
  • not too long ago, I saw someone selling Toolcraft nitride BCG's for $69. Just for insurance on your $350 AR, seems like it would be a good deal.
  • Not everyone is going to shoot "several thousand rounds" out of their AR. At this price point, you can get one just to have, and put aside some ammo. I know a few people that bought S&W M&P Sport's prior to Obama taking office- for fear that they might not be able to buy something afterwards- and they've yet to burn through the first case of ammo they bought then.
If we're talking about somebody who might shoot a couple mags a few times a year, and who simply would enjoy OWNING an AR, then these guns are fine.
 
In the past when good firearms became too affordable for the common man it was an excuse to make them more expensive, so only the elites living in their gated mansions with private security and freezer with four figures worth of gourmet ice cream can have them. 1968 and 1986 were both about making good firearms too expensive for regular people to buy. The scare tactics will be the same, "people can buy weapons of mass destruction for less than $400" etc. etc. I don't think this really expands our 2A rights meaningfully since most people can, with time, eventually afford a decent rifle of some kind as it is. The good stuff is still to expensive for the common man and this does nothing to change that.
 
Will Munny said:
I don't think this really expands our 2A rights meaningfully since most people can, with time, eventually afford a decent rifle of some kind as it is. The good stuff is still to expensive for the common man and this does nothing to change that.
Click to expand...

1. An uncomfortably large portion of the population lives paycheck to paycheck. The difference between a $700 rifle and a $350 rifle is huge to this demographic.

2. "The good stuff" is relative. A $350 AR that goes bang every time and puts holes in a pie plate at 200 yards is good stuff to the aforementioned demographic, and will do just as good a job for self/home defense as a $2500 Daniel Defense rifle.

For the vast majority of owners these are not 100% duty cycle tools. They get pulled out and fired for maybe a half hour a few times a year, and put away in a climate controlled closet or gun safe until the next time they're called upon. No need for the same robustness or ultra high durability that a soldier's service rifle needs to have.
 
Last edited:
I think that price point rifle is a wonderful option for those wanting to save some dough $$. The reality is this is what lots of ppl can afford. That said, the bacon wrapped 4oz ''filet mignon'' in the form fitted plastic carrier at the grocery, well, it may be Ok grill fodder, but, is it as tasty as a premier cut? Hey... I've ate them too but it's not grade A-1 Fancy is what I'm saying.

Remember, it's mostly all about trigger group, BCG,and barrel. Everything else is connecting parts & holders. Just some fancier then others.

The main thing is STILL practice with that new gun, shoot several 100 rounds if possible. READ THE MANUAL. Remember, the most likely person to be injured (all injuries, finger pinches etc.) from your new firearm (any firearm) is, YOU:what:.

I guess it fits all of us but especially to the new owner(s). Oh also, ENJOY YOUR NEW GUN:thumbup:! ! !
 
reddog81 said:
Same company linked in the original post - BCA (Bear Creek Arsenal). The upper includes all items mentioned made in-house by BCA along with MLOK rail. Their 450's all have side charging handle. I already have a Ruger bolt action in 450 BM. I have been hesitant to get the AR because brass is expensive and much easier to keep track of with the bolt action, but I figured I would end up with one eventually...
Click to expand...
I lose more 450 brass in the woods than any other caliber. That stuff flings way out but it is worth it
 
General Geoff said:
1. An uncomfortably large portion of the population lives paycheck to paycheck. The difference between a $700 rifle and a $350 rifle is huge to this demographic.

2. "The good stuff" is relative. A $350 AR that goes bang every time and puts holes in a pie plate at 200 yards is good stuff to the aforementioned demographic, and will do just as good a job for self/home defense as a $2500 Daniel Defense rifle.

For the vast majority of owners these are not 100% duty cycle tools. They get pulled out and fired for maybe a half hour a few times a year, and put away in a climate controlled closet or gun safe until the next time they're called upon. No need for the same robustness or ultra high durability that a soldier's service rifle needs to have.
Click to expand...

  1. In economics this is a sort of common temporal fallacy. Yes, many people do live paycheck to paycheck if you take a point in time measure of the population. The problem is that people are constantly moving between economic groups. So just because someone cannot go out and buy it today does not mean they cannot buy it in the next 5 or 10 years. That demographic is constantly loosing members to higher income demographics so it is far from a constant. Second, many people living paycheck to paycheck do so not because they make so little income but because they spend far beyond their means. All of that spending can and sometimes does include firearms. Third, a great many people that do earn low incomes are people that are not legally allowed to buy firearms anyway. People under the age of majority, felons, and the mentally ill comprise a disproportionate amount of those earning minimum wage or no income at all.
  2. The good stuff as used in my post is absolutely not relative, because it is referring to a class of goods defined in law. To be more clear however I was alluding to items which are made artificially expensive via regulation, particularly fully automatic firearms. An M2 Browning is a six figure gun, when it should cost less than 10% of that in an unencumbered market. The good stuff here refers to items which the government has deliberately made unaffordable for any but the well to do.
 
redcon1 said:
Sounds like market saturation to me. Definitely evidence of "in common use at the time". makes me feel silly for spending $1,400 on my first build but I doubt these $350-$400 rifles have Shilen match grade barrels and Triggertech Diamond triggers or any other high end components. I have to wonder how they shoot though. probably not too bad.
Click to expand...

I have three PSAs that didn't cost $1,400 combined. They shoot very well.
 
Choctaw said:
I have three PSAs that didn't cost $1,400 combined. They shoot very well.
Click to expand...
Maybe I over did it. I bought a Shilen barrel for $400, a Trigger tech trigger for $300. The Aero upper and lower were like $214 (and I was going to buy something more expensive there, a Grey ghost matched set), Aero BCG was around $150. I really wanted a superlative arms bleed of gas block and that was around $100 + the tube. The Aero MLOK free floats were about $150. Then misc parts, buffers,springs, tube, receiver springs, forward assist, ejection port cover, pins grips, etc. and shipping and then there were all the tools. I have well over 2 grand in this one rifle including the tools but I wanted the tools (and the new skill more than anything) so I don't care about that. I don't care about any of that money. I got what I wanted. I love the rifle. Next time I'll go grey ghost for the receiver I think.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

LiveLife
  • Locked
Continued in .223 Wylde - Meaning of $349 complete ARs for the Second Amendment
Replies
10
Views
831
12Bravo20
12Bravo20
LiveLife
  • Locked
Affordable AR15s to better support Second Amendment "Right to Keep and Bear Arms"
2 3
Replies
69
Views
2K
gunmechanic
G
C
  • Locked
Textbook EDITS the Second Amendment!
2 3 4
Replies
75
Views
4K
jrdolall
J
S
  • Locked
Putting the Second Amendment Second
Replies
4
Views
557
myrockfight
M
Frankl03
  • Locked
Multiple Pro Second Amendment Laws signed in Texas
Replies
21
Views
662
Spats McGee
Spats McGee
Back
Top