IWI Zion 15 or Galeel

Galeel for sure.

I have a IWI Zion pistol. I really like it. There isn't much else I can say. As far as capabilities go, my understanding is that 223/556 performance really starts to drop off with a barrel length less than 11.5". Could be wrong, others will be along shortly to correct if I am wrong. I really don't think you could go wrong with the pistol or rifle version.

I'm not sure the zion 15 is any different than any other ar15, so I would be basing that decision on price and features.
as far as pistols go, specifically the sba3 brace, it's not too bad. I mean, a real stock is better, but the AR in 223 doesn't have much recoil, so a little flex isn't a big deal. Most of the recoil with any stock comes at the top, where the buffer tube is. my concern is (and has been for many years now) that with a wave of their little bureaucratic hands the ATF will decide braces are illegal. then what? Will they grandfather them in? doubtful, they didn't with the bumpstocks. will they give you a free tax stamp? again, doubtful.

the advantages to a brace are that they are currently legal, work as intended, and don't require any hoops to take out of state like an sbr does.

here is a website that started chopping a barrel down and measuring the velocity loss as it got shorter. https://rifleshooter.com/2015/12/22...el-length-and-velocity-26-inches-to-6-inches/

as an aside, shorty AR's are absurdly loud. I wouldn't go near one without a suppressor on it. but that's just half deaf me. Before I paid a premium for a galil, I'd get a cheaper ar15 variant and a suppressor.

It is spelled "Galil" and it is not an AR pattern of any sort. It is a unique platform conforming more to an AK action.
If you want an AR pattern then there are tons out there.
I have four pistols in rifle caliber. They all work well. No Galil. Two AR patterns and two AK patterns. One AK in 5.56 and one in 7.62 Soviet.
You might like the PSA AK-104 rifle or pistol. I have one. It can use any number of braces and stocks with 1913 mounting. It runs a 12.5 inch bbl.

Huntolive said:

Thanks
I’m leaning towards the pistol but waiting on more information on the ballistics for the barrel difference and also instead of the differences between the effect of the flimsy brace versus a true stock

how decent r those SBR3 braces?
How with the brace reduce accuracyWhat are the pluses and minuses of the brace versus a true stock

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I would say that my experience with the brace, it's not as stiff as a stock, so there some flex depending on where it lands on your shoulder. Also, the pistol brace adjustment isn't as long as a standard stock.

Mine is set up for a short distance, quick response setup. No magnified optics. Eotech, sling, streamlight w/laser.

Almost forgot, there will be one con to both models. There is a gap between the magazine well and trigger guard. After extensive shooting sessions that gap will rub your middle finger raw. Replace the trigger guard with a longer one ASAP. Trust me.

I found this video very useful:



I think the pistol braces are very cool and useful but for someone like me, I will take barrel length and velocity over compactness. A pinned and welded 14.5 is as small as I go.

I think it is very important to think about all of the different ways you may end up using a rifle.

Huntolive said:

If I had to take the brace off of a gun like the Zion Pistol how horrible would it be to fire with any expected accuracy?

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I have seen a new method of shooting that uses the recoil tube of an AR to establish a check weld. It looks fast and reasonably accurate. There is no way this can compete with a stocked rifle however. I have stayed away from "pistols" for this reason. A 14.5 with a permanently attached muzzle device is compact enough for me.

Huntolive said:

What do y’all think the likelihood is that the ATF or other powers that maybe will make braces illegal in the next four years

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If you truly concerned that braces may be made illegal and the velocity/energy loss from the shorter barrel, then I would suggest the rifle version.

Mmm... 308 Galil...

ECVMatt said:

I have seen a new method of shooting that uses the recoil tube of an AR to establish a check weld. It looks fast and reasonably accurate. There is no way this can compete with a stocked rifle however. I have stayed away from "pistols" for this reason. A 14.5 with a permanently attached muzzle device is compact enough for me.

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It's not new, but may be more accurate to say that it's recently become more popular than it once was.

I was doing that, and putting little rubber furniture "feet" on buffer tubes before braces existed.

gotboostvr said:

It's not new, but may be more accurate to say that it's recently become more popular than it once was.I was doing that, and putting little rubber furniture "feet" on buffer tubes before braces existed.

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You are 100% correct. I meant to say there was a recent conversation on another board about this technique combined with sling tension and a red dot sight. The kids and all their screaming got me again! Cheers..

ECVMatt said:

You are 100% correct. I meant to say there was a recent conversation on another board about this technique combined with sling tension and a red dot sight. The kids and all their screaming got me again! Cheers..

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The forward pressure against a single point sling is another good trick to have in your tool box.

And certainly a red dot makes things exponentially easier with these methods.

The brace on the pistol version is stiff enough to make accurate shots. IMHO

Moparnut said:

The brace on the pistol version is stiff enough to make accurate shots. IMHO

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Oh yeah, the brace is definitely a better mousetrap.

I want one of the SBA3's, but even the blades seem like they should work well enough.