An interesting Offer of ammunition to the Ukraine

eyeshot said:

Air support.

Click to expand...

Yes ^^^

The Ukrainians probably won’t even need any more ammo because the media has been saying how the Russians are running out of food and gas, morale is low, leadership is unstable, their top hit men got eliminated and Putin will be assassinated by his own people soon. I mean it’s bad in Ukraine but the Russians are clearly inept and progress is slow. They’re stalling. Of course the media also says Russia is completely evil, powerful and will crush all of Ukraine with ease and small arms won’t help anything. It’s a nice gesture though.

It’s so awesome getting real-time military intel assessments, bda’s, and battle plans from the TV and the internet.

I appreciate the support, but I can’t help but fear the Russian’s may get them. We gave tons of armament to Afghan fighters to, in hindsight that wasn’t the best idea.

Kind of like, if there not having an ammo shortage they probably don’t need them, if there is an ammo shortage…. They probably don’t need them.

But what do I know, I’m just a guy that’s never been to Ukraine, and never served in any military capacity. So I really don’t know what I’m talking about.

I do wish the Ukraine people the best and hope they survive and get stronger.

Fox News report on the ammo donation:

They are asking for a no fly zone. That would entail the US shooting down Russian fighters and attack helicopters. There is talk of giving them A10s but that is considered to provocative along with javelin anti ship missiles. Are we willing to fight a world war
with Russia?

AlexanderA said:

As part of the NATO effort to help the Ukrainians, the Prime Minister of Greece, Kyriakos Mitsotakis, has pledged to send thousands of Kalashnikov rifles to Ukraine. He just said this a couple of days ago.

The question is, where did Greece find "thousands" of Kalashnikovs to send?

This appears to confirm what we've already known: Hundreds of thousands of AK's (police estimates at one time were at least 250,000) were illegally smuggled into Greece from Albania after the fall of the Hoxha regime there. Of these, thousands were confiscated over the years from criminals and terrorists. The rest are being held clandestinely.

This further confirms that gun control in Greece, one of the strictest in Europe, has failed spectacularly.

ETA: This is an editorial cartoon about this, which appeared in the Athens daily Kathimerini:

View attachment 1063767

Translation: (These are Cretans, who are known in Greece for having the most illegal weapons. Mitsotakis, the PM, is himself a Cretan.)

The guy on the phone says, in Cretan dialect: "Yes Mister Prime Minister, we also gathered together a bunch of them because we learned that we're sending Kalashnikovs to the Ukrainians."

Click to expand...

I can vouch for this from my time there in 2004-2005. I saw several machine pistols, personally fired a full auto Glock, an NAA mini, and several other pistols. New Year’s Eve by the harbor in Chania had lots of celebratory gunfire. An orthodox priest was arrested for illegal possession of a Glock 18 in town my second week. I was at a cafe when the bank down the street was robbed by two guys on a motorcycle armed with what was probably a beretta smg of some sort…

We need to stay out of it. I wish it wasn't that way...I'd love to see our A-10 Boys and girls tear the Russian bear a great big new one. If Putin did anything, he showed us the fear we had of the Red Army the last 50 years was completely unjustified. After their performance in this...The PA National Guard could smoke the best the Russians have.

But...we can't, do that, even if we could or even should. Putin will use nukes...no doubt about it. He will nuke Kiev if the Ukraians pull it off and win on their own. Putin will nuke them just out of spite.
He is unstable, and thus unpredictable, we don't need to add humiliated on top by walking in their and rubbing his nose in it.

Let them fight it out. Beef up NATO...get ready for Chinas next move... and hope and pray Putin doesn't push the button...because if he does...its the end of everything.

Now far as AMMO sending a million rounds .....Meh. 1000000 is a drop in the bucket in a real war, and we have a major shortage ourselves. I wont even give it credit for good marketing...Need something to buy before you can claim good marketing...the shelves are empty.


I'll Add this NOTE also...Does Ammo in produce anything they actually use? I've never seen Ammo brand 7.62x39...7.62x54R......or 5.46 x 39....They make 9mm...but a million pistol rounds...in war? Nope.

lilguy said:

They are asking for a no fly zone. Are we willing to fight a world war
with Russia?

Click to expand...

“They” are willing for “us” to fight their war with Russia. Political leaders on both side are outright talking big **** and they won’t be above ground when it all goes wrong. (They’ll be in bunkers) I really can’t believe how childish our leadership is. Or worse, they know what they’re doing and want war. Now that the cohvid, lockdown, vaccine mandate scheme failed no telling what they’ll do.

The only thing that would save them is NATO membership. Unfortunately the instant that happens WWIII starts.

Wow a lot of people here believe US propaganda.

Here's a clue for you though... the Ukrainians just scuttled the flagship of their navy. People that are winning do not scuttle ships.

As for the "donation" from Ammo Inc, I do not think it will happen, for at least will not happen before the Russians take the Ukraine. Ammo Inc has nothing in stock. That means they do not have components available to make ammo.

lilguy said:

They are asking for a no fly zone. That would entail the US shooting down Russian fighters and attack helicopters. There is talk of giving them A10s but that is considered to provocative along with javelin anti ship missiles. Are we willing to fight a world war
with Russia?

Click to expand...

Like President Zelinsky said "the world came too late for Ukraine." The writing on the wall has been there for a long time. In addition to what they were given they needed planes that could have been flown into Ukraine by Ukrainian pilots. Water over the dam now. God help them.

So the video was fake news?

Balrog said:

Wow a lot of people here believe US propaganda.
Here's a clue for you though... the Ukrainians just scuttled the flagship of their navy. People that are winning do not scuttle ships.

As for the "donation" from Ammo Inc, I do not think it will happen, for at least will not happen before the Russians take the Ukraine. Ammo Inc has nothing in stock. That means they do not have components available to make ammo.

Click to expand...

People mention A-10s.

Russia has quite a fleet of their 'version', the SU-25 "Frogfoot" (a video from an SU-25 in Chechnya was on Youtube). If Ukraine had some which were airworthy, Russian cruise missiles etc might already have destroyed them.
One or two of the Russian SUs were shot down.

I've read nothing about Ukraine having such a fleet, nor a fleet of Hind attack helicopters.

Balrog said:

Wow a lot of people here believe US propaganda.

Here's a clue for you though... the Ukrainians just scuttled the flagship of their navy. People that are winning do not scuttle ships.

As for the "donation" from Ammo Inc, I do not think it will happen, for at least will not happen before the Russians take the Ukraine. Ammo Inc has nothing in stock. That means they do not have components available to make ammo.

Click to expand...

Yup. Its not even well done propoganda and a lot of people are swallowing it hook, line, and sinker. In a matter of days people have gone back to the Clinton/Bush dynasty mentality and its Russia,Russia,Russia..... War, War, War!!

Crazy times. Somebody high up must have it the switch and erased everyones memory. TV talking heads are all telling the truth now. Question it.... and your some sort of Russian agent or whatever.

Ammo Inc is probably just useing this as a stunt at best. At worst they are trying to suck up to dark elements to form new relationships with those that do nasty things and hide it behind propoganda.

This is a propoganda war and the battlefield is in most folks head. Lose that war and we will be thrown into a world war scenario. We are in the seduction phase right now.

I am just a small ship in a stormy see though so its just an opinion. Hope I am wrong. Truth will come out eventually... a lot already has.

The one thing I am grateful for is biden has not put U.S. troops in harms way yet and I hope he doesn't. Those who want involvement ask why Poland and Germany are not jumping in I feel for the Ukraine but let Europe fight this one if they need support so be it but put up or shut up.

A donation of 1 million rounds would be about as helpful as my kid breaking his piggy bank and sending $20. It's a feel good story. Nothing that's going to affect the outcome.

We're kind of in a race with Russia. It's unfortunate for Ukraine, because I don't think its anything personal against them. Putin's Russia has taken a back seat to the US and China and he needs this show to prove they're still a world power. So we're all racing. Straight to the bottom, and whoever gets there last wins.

I don’t know the motivation of the people at Ammoinc, but if I’m Ukrainian and fighting for my life and country I’ll take whatever ammo I can get.

Latest CNBC headline:

“Biden’s approval rating jumps”

Even if it were 500 million rounds packed on pallets and ready to go…how many people seriously think it would make its way eastward, be successfully unloaded, then navigating all the crooked politicians and their greedy hands, to truly reach the stunningly beautiful and manicured supermodels allegedly fighting these battles?

Its funny though. While we who have rifles in that caliber scramble and scrounge just for the "cheap stuff" (steel cased) russian or other nations ammunition,
the pledged million rounds of 7.62x39 are all brand new brass cased ammunition!

You know, if only they made it available to the US market, being that its made here anyways. I mean, we are willing to pay for it, while they just give it away as aid to another country!

Ignition Override said:

Russia has quite a fleet of their 'version', the SU-25 "Frogfoot"

Click to expand...

Ukraine's Ground Attack jet is also the Su-25 they have a couple hundred (or did, a month ago).

While it's fine and dandy to assert that [entity] is shipping [product] to Ukraine, there are serious technical issues. Sure, a shipping container could get from the East Coast to, say, Poland in around 5-6 days. A 20' (1 TFE) "can" would suffice for a million rounds of 5.45x39 (it's only a thousand cases--the limitation is that at 23#/ case that's 23,000# or 11.5 tons).

Problem would be that there are ITAR forms to get the ammo out of the US. Then, Import and Customs forms for Poland, and Export forms to get to Ukraine.

Ok, so, shipping direct to Odessa would be possible, but that's through the Bosphorus and very close to Sevastopol in Crimea.

But, the US side of ITAR runs through either Dept of State or Dept of Commerce (depends on where the items fall on the Munitions List).

It sounds weird to me, I'm no expert in geopolitical matters but does Ukraine not have the manufacturing capacity to churn out millions of rounds a day with their manufacturing plants? Why would US manufacturers need to step in and export ammo to a very capable arms/ammo supplier? I know they need things, I just would have thought ammunition would be quite low on the list.

If I was putin, dealing with an armed civilian resistance I would target the arms depots, military installations and ammo manufacturers. Is he doing that yet

DustyGmt said:

Why would US manufacturers need to step in and export ammo to a very capable arms/ammo supplier

Click to expand...

It's a very symbolic gesture in that, upon being invited to flee and seek refuge in other countries (the U.S. included) President Zelensky quipped that "I don't need a ride, I need ammunition". Or at least the quote was attributed to him, whether it's factually accurate or not.

CapnMac said:

Ok, so, shipping direct to Odessa would be possible, but that's through the Bosphorus and very close to Sevastopol in Crimea.

Click to expand...

Turkey has the right to close the Straits in wartime under the 1936 Montreux Treaty. That's one reason why the U.S.S. Harry Truman task force is staying in the northern Aegean rather than trying to enter the Black Sea. Not even Russian ships currently in the Med can return home. (The Truman is being shadowed by a Russian guided missile cruiser.)

Aid is being flown into Poland and transshipped overland by truck.