The word Cartridge and Bullet.

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Cartridge is any complete, ready to fire, fixed ammunition (vs semi-fixed or separate propellant).

Bullet is any passive (not explosive, etc), not-finned or otherwise sabot-covered, projectile designed to be gyroscopically spun. Shot is (non-spin stabuilized) round balls instead. Projectile is the generic above that level if no other specific term (shell, missile, slug, flechette...).

Caliber is EITHER:
Diameter of the bore in whatever units, whichever conventional manner applies (as it varies).
OR, the length of the barrel in relative units, multiples of the bore size (not used in small arms).

(Since I do FOF stuff also: "pellet" is the general term for non-pyrotechnically propelled projectiles that do not obturate in the bore. "BB" is a size, .177" or 4.5"".)
 
jag22 said:
Basically anyone in the shooting, and particularly reloading, community are word snobs. Use the wrong term according to their definition and they will be more than happy to point out your mis-speak. Ignore them, it is a no win argument.
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^^^Yeah, I kinda have to agree. Being in construction for 40 years, I got used to folks using incorrect terms for things. Many times this included folks who should have known better. Sometimes I thought they knew better, but just finally gave up and succumbed to the masses. This is how I feel about the different terms used for firearms. Grew up in an area and an era, where everyone I knew owned guns. Many were WWII and Korean War veterans. They called their cartridges "bullets" and their Magazines "clips". Always knew what they meant. Still do. If I have to ask because I'm confused, I do. Otherwise, I don't feel the need to insult them by correcting them with my superior knowledge.;)
 
jmr40 said:
Actually, it is exactly the same thing. It's about using correct terminology. I realize that over the years the definitions have become blurred, but I like to use the correct terminology. And would like for people to understand the correct terminology even if they choose not to use it. The correct terminology has been stated multiple times so I won't go there.

And it isn't just with firearms. Where I live any soft drink is a "Coke". Even if it says Pepsi on the bottle. All adjustable wrenches are a "Cresent" wrench even if it says "Craftsman" on it and there are still a lot of people who refer to all refrigerators as a "Frigidaire".

Another similar misapplication of terms is when people ask which caliber rifle they should get when they mean which cartridge should they be considering.
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Words gain or change meanings all the time, another example is the word "decimate", today most would say it means to totally destroy but the original ancient Roman meaning was to reduce by ten percent. It had a specific military application.
 
kje54 said:
Words gain or change meanings all the time, another example is the word "decimate", today most would say it means to totally destroy but the original ancient Roman meaning was to reduce by ten percent. It had a specific military application.
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Yes, that one bugs me when I hear it misused.
 
Grew up understanding headspace was the space between the cartridge head and the bolt face; a dimension that should be kept to a mimimum.

All reloaders still do, but now purists (and SAAMI) call that head clerance, and the headspace is from the cartridge base to a point on the cartridge case.
 
It strikes me this current turn in the discussion is far from the intent of the OP. However, it does point out a the laziness of people in general.

I am a retired lawman. During my career I have had to prepare any number of written reports regarding an episode of the job. A report has to be read by one's superiors and answer all questions of the event. If a report must be followed by the author of the report, it is faulty in some regard. I have also testified in court. One must clearly present evidence in a correct and meaningful manner.
Consequently, I do my best to use correct terminology and am somewhat offended by those who steadfastly refuse to learn or use correct terms. No doubt incorrect terminology will not hasten the end of the world, such wrong usage does cause misunderstandings and occasion are totally incoherent. Witness the verbal communication of some public officials.

I am not claiming an absence of idiocy myself. I attempt not to look like an idiot.
 
PWC said:
and the headspace is from the cartridge base to a point on the cartridge case.
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C-mon man you can’t do that in a thread like this , since we’re not in the reloading forum I’ll bite my tongue lol
 
Well I figure things this way:

BULLET
A non-spherical projectile for use in a rifled barrel and sometimes contained within a sabot.

CARTRIDGE
A single round of ammunition consisting of the case, primer and propellant with or without one or more projectiles. Also applies to a shotshell.

Within our shooters world uniformity is important. Especially if we expect to communicate with one another effectively. Different disciplines use different terms to describe different things. In the shooting world or discipline we have The Glossary of Industry terms. This is supposed to get people on the same channel. A box of bullets and a box of cartridges are not the same thing.

Ron
 
As sort of an aside, a couple of years ago I was watching one of the "true crime " shows on tv and two actual investigators of a murder involving a shooting victim referred to the expended bullets as "pellets". Technically, I suppose their term for the bullets was not incorrect, per se, but it was the first and is the only time I heard of bullets being referred to as pellets. I think I remember the city of the police department but I won't say because I'm not completely sure.
 
Cartridge: synonymous with round, the bullet, case, primer & propellant assembly

Bullet: small arms projectile

Caliber: context dependent, may be bullet/bore diameter, chambering, or for suppressors denotes the intended maximium projectile diameter that may be safely fired through the can.

Case: synonymous with brass in context, the cartridge case. "Empties" for fired cases sometimes.

Shell: loaded shotgun round, hull for empties.

"Shell casing": annoying redundant media terminology for cartridge case that I will never, ever utilize.
 
I just got back to this today, Some interesting stuff in here.

It really has spun off into a direction I did not see coming, all cool.

A couple things I wanted to bring up.

Someone said they knew the terms, and would let people call them as they like. IMHO, yea I see that point of view, but I am pretty firm in the camp of words mean things. Now before I get rolling here let me first say I have been working in an "industry" with "terms" for decades. I really hate the "lingo" that surrounds it but that lingo does have some very specific meanings, and use the wrong "word" somewhere and people can get very confused, and react in a way that is not anywhere you think this should be going.

Some things I will give a pass to. Bullet for example, calling a round of loaded ammo and then also calling the projectile a bullet. If I am around someone and for example they use that term. Generally one of two things will happen. If I am around someone that really knows what the word "bullet" means it will get a pass, or if I am feeling snarky, I might toss them an actual bullet. For someone new, I see it as a time to educate. It is a bit like the word vehicle, and car, truck, motorcycle. You can call them all vehicles, but you can't call a motorcycle a truck, but you can call a truck a car. I left it in the car, when you always drive a truck. That kind of thing.

I basically stole this idea off the long range thread on reddit. What pops into your head when the word cartridge is used. And it has been interesting to see just how we view that word. It is like so many other words that get batted around in day to day life today.

I guess it might have been better to have said what image pops into your mind when you think of one round of loaded ammunition, but this has been fun.
 
A term that has always bugged me along the lines of the OP is "shelling"...

The piles of empty cases from artillery connote the horrible effects of that has occurred down range. Seems very inappropriate to me.
 
What pops into my head, at cartridges mentioning? When reading the OP, it was
.30-06. Other times, group and context may change; at Cowboy shoots, .45C.

Same with bullet, 150 gr PSP or a 250 gr powder coated LRNFP.

Terminology, wording and clear communications matter.
A good friend was headed camping. He was almost to the lake and remembered he didn't have TENT STAKES.

He stops at small, country store. And older lady greets him and asks if he needs help?
Mike has a slight stutter and it gets worse when he is frustrated, nervous or rushed. He says, "yes, ma'am, do yyou have any tttent sstakes?"

She smiles, "3rd aisle, on left, bottom shelf"

Mike walks up and do an the aisle, cant find tent stakes." Returns to front. "I dddon't see any tttent sssstakes."

She smiles, speaks very slowly, "aisle 3, about 3/4 of the way down, in the bottom shelf, left side."

Off he goes. Scours both sides of entire aisle and finds nothing. Frustrated, he returns to this counter. "Lady, I mmmust bbe sssssstupid, IIII can't ffffind no TTTTTENT SSSSSTAKES"

She steps out, marches over to aisle 3, turns down aisle, goes 3/4 of the way down, turns left, bends over, grabs a box TAMPEX and hands to him."

"LLLLLady, IIIII dddon't ttthink I c can dddrive ttthose in ttthe gggggground"
 
When I read on a reloading forum, bullet is the projectile and cartridge is the assembled ammo.

When talking to general public or browsing the internet or reading a news story, bullet = loaded ammo and bullet = projectile. One word, two meanings.

I can interpret the meaning based on context.
 
Remington1911 said:
I basically stole this idea off the long range thread on reddit. What pops into your head when the word cartridge is used. And it has been interesting to see just how we view that word. It is like so many other words that get batted around in day to day life today.
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LOL you think cartridge is controversial try bringing up headspace haha

Remington1911 said:
Someone said they knew the terms, and would let people call them as they like. IMHO, yea I see that point of view, but I am pretty firm in the camp of words mean things. Now before I get rolling here let me first say I have been working in an "industry" with "terms" for decades. I really hate the "lingo" that surrounds it but that lingo does have some very specific meanings, and use the wrong "word" somewhere and people can get very confused, and react in a way that is not anywhere you think this should be going.
Click to expand...

I agree totally there is absolutely a time and a place where the wording matters or bad things can happen . However when some rando asks how many bullets are in a box of 9mm . I say 20 or 50 , I don't ask do you mean cartridges or projectiles . Hell I still call them bullets from time to time . You are not going to stop the term bullet from meaning an assembled cartridge . Over the years whenever my grandson was in my reloading room watching or what ever . I always described everything correctly and the word bullet was NEVER used . He starts school and with in a year or two he's calling a cartridge a bullet . I never used that word because I knew he would go to school one day and I did not want him telling everyone about all the bullets his grampa had and yet .... . I still correct him but over the years it's basically just street slang now , we aren't going to stop some words from having multiple meanings .
 
Say cartridge and I think of my Dad 20 years or so ago... This is a 22 rimfire cartridge- the round end is the bottom and goes in the tubular magazine first.

Say bullet and I think of poor Gunga Din...

Kipling said:
'E carried me away
To where a dooli lay,
An’ a bullet come an’ drilled the beggar clean.
’E put me safe inside,
An’ just before ’e died,
'I ’ope you liked your drink,’ sez Gunga Din.
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My wife has had more than 100 novels published. A lot of them had guns involved. I read every one of them for accuracy of terms before it went to print and she researched historical aspects to be sure the type of gun was in use during the period of the story. But comments above are correct. Wrong terms are used by lots of writers who don't know guns and don't know what they don't know. Most editors are just as clueless.

But to the point, when I think of bullets, I usually think of jacketed pointed softpoints. when I think of cartridges, I think of loaded .25-20 Win., .222 Rem, or 7X57mm or .30-06 sprfld. Yes, I'm in my 70s.
 
Yet, people use the term "powder" all the time, and no one gets their semantic panties in a wad. Smokeless propellant grains are pellets, flakes, tubes, balls, strips, cords, sheets, or occasionally, cylinders, with or without multiple holes in it, not a "powder."

Rosettes, I forgot the rosettes.
 
You guys mean to tell me that when Lynrd Skynrd said “Give Me Back My Bullets,” that they were referring to cartridges…

When I picture a bullet, it’s a round nosed FMJ pistol bullet (9mm, 45, etc.), and when I picture a cartridge it’s a 5.56 or .308. I don’t know why, and never really thought about it until now.
 
lysanderxiii said:
Au contraire, air rifle pellets do obturate in the bore, that's why they have a hollow base.
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Very true, the air gun side of guns has really come along way.

And you pointing out his error shows again that we may not know all we think we know......I think I can quote lone star for that one.
 
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