Triple Seven in 30-30, 38, & 357

I wouldn't do it. It makes a mess dirt wise. And is corrosive. You would have to take down the pistol and thoroughly clean it. If you want to try a black powder that is cleaner is suggest. Black horn 209. It's supposed to be cleaner. I have not used it myself.

I have used Triple Seven in 6.5mm Carcano and 7.63mm Mauser pistol, and Pyrodex RS in .30-30 and Pyrodex P in various centerfire calibers.

Clean as you would shooting corrosive primers. I thorough clean on the day of the match within 6 hours, follow with a thorough clean three days later. Last match of the season, clean day of the match, three days later, then clean the gun again a week later.

The BP subs are worse than BP, they are dirty and corrosive.

The case is the powder measure for real blackpowder and substitutes. Fill the case so the bottom of the bullet contacts the top of the powder, eliminating air space between the powder and the bullet. Real blackpowder and some subs tolerate compression. 777 doesn’t. Lube on the bullet is very important. Rule of thumb to get by: avoid petroleum based lubes and use “natural lubes” instead, such as beeswax and tallow. Please do some reading about shooting blackpowder because others will point out that these guidelines can be fudged somewhat, but don’t risk injury to yourself or damage to your firearm until you are confident that you know what you are doing.

By way of encouragement, I loaded thousands of rounds of .38 Special and .357 Magnum with 777 under home cast / home lubed lead bullets and enjoyed using them in cowboy action competition. You will find the boom and smoke cloud entertaining!

Clean the gun within a day after shooting. Others will argue, but it’s not their gun.

keep this in mind .its corrosive. you will have to clean in hot water after every use . you could use blackhorn

CoalCrackerAl said:

I wouldn't do it. It makes a mess dirt wise. And is corrosive. You would have to take down the pistol and thoroughly clean it. If you want to try a black powder that is cleaner is suggest. Black horn 209. It's supposed to be cleaner. I have not used it myself.

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Not really. I hardly ever take mine all the way down. I remove the grips and cylinder and everything but the grips goes in a sink full of hot soapy water. The action doesn't get much bp fouling so no scrubbing is needed. I can clean a bp revolver faster than I can smokeless. Blackhorn 209 doesn't work with percussion caps. It takes a 209 primer, hence the name.

misser said:

keep this in mind .its corrosive. you will have to clean in hot water after every use . you could use blackhorn

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Actually black powder is not corrosive. It's fouling is hygroscopic, meaning it attracts moisture from the air and holds it against the steel, which if left long enough causes rust. Much of the heavy corrosion we see on antique firearms is caused by the corrosive percussion caps and primers used in the 19th Century. Just like corrosive primers have ruined many early smokeless cartridge rifle barrels in the early 20th Century.

DMW1116 said:

I can see why people were doing a lot of research to try to move away from black powder.

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On the contrary. People who are interested in history and understand using black powder are not trying to "move away from black powder". Many of us are enjoying it more and more, the more we learn about it.

Dave

I have done it
It is fun
It is VERY DIRTY and a PITA to clean

I love BP in the .45 Colt. It really is not difficult. Keys include using enough powder that the bullet compresses it a bit, and to use a bullet that holds a generous amount of soft lube. Cleanup isn't nearly the task it is made out to be, and I have gotten to the point where it's actually a bit easier than cleaning a gun fired with smokeless and jacketed bullets.

Triple Seven is a much different topic, though, and I avoid the stuff completely. I've never used it in a metallic cartridge and don't intend to.

Black powder was the original in many cartridges, including several I load; .45/70, .45 Colt, .44-40. Cleaning is no more difficult or arduous a task than any other black powder gun. In fact, it's a simpler process as you load as much as the case will allow by volume (e.g. 35gr 3F in a .45 Colt, compress with the bullet) and don't have to worry about overcharging. As was mentioned, the fouling itself is not corrosive, but rather, hygroscopic. Clean after shooting as you would any other BP firearm.
If one has to worry about how dirty it is or how long you can stick it in the closet before cleaning, maybe BP is not for them. Or they should gravitate towards so-called modern muzzleloaders, shotgun primers, sabot slugs and powder pellets.
The historical and authenticity aspect is all part of the fun!

CoalCrackerAl said:

I wouldn't do it. It makes a mess dirt wise. And is corrosive. You would have to take down the pistol and thoroughly clean it. If you want to try a black powder that is cleaner is suggest. Black horn 209. It's supposed to be cleaner. I have not used it myself.

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Howdy

I love these statements that claim you have to completely disassemble a revolver after shooting it with cartridges loaded with Black Powder.

I have been loading real Black Powder into cartridges and shooting them in revolvers for over 20 years. 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 44-40, 44 Russian, and 38-40. 45-70 too, but I don't shoot that in a revolver, only in my antique Trapdoor rifle.

I NEVER take a revolver completely apart after shooting it with Black Powder. Any revolver that I plan to shoot with Black Powder, I take apart completely, degrease everything, then I relubricate with Ballistol.

As has been stated, Black Powder is not as corrosive as most people believe. Yes, it is corrosive, but nowhere near as bad as most people believe. Yes, it was corrosive primers, coupled with BP fouling that caused most of the trouble. We don't use corrosive primers any more, so real BP is far less corrosive than many shooters believe.

Yes, cleaning up after shooting BP is messy, no question about that. Far more messy than cleaning up after Smokeless. On the other hand, my favorite BP cleaning solution is water based as opposed to the nasty chemicals in most Smokeless cleaning solutions.

Yes Black Powder fouling is very dry. Yes, it is hygroscopic and will absorb moisture from the air. When BP fouling sits against steel for an extended length of time, it the moisture held against the steel will cause corrosion.

But here is a little secret I discovered a long time ago: Soak BP fouling with oil, and it cannot absorb any moisture from the air. Think of it as a sponge that is already saturated with water. It cannot absorb any more water. BP fouling soaked with oil cannot absorb any water in the form of water vapor from the air. So there is no water to be held against the steel. When I clean a cartridge rifle or revolver that has been fired with Black Power cartridges, I swab everything out real well with my favorite water based BP solvent. When I'm done I take a dry patch and soak it with Ballistol. I run the patch through the chambers and bore, to soak them in oil. Then I follow up with a dry patch to mop up the excess. This leaves a thin coating of oil so any minor traces of BP fouling left against the steel will be harmless.

This is particularly useful when shooting antique revolvers and rifles with pitted old bores. It is impossible to clean every molecule of fouling out of the pits. I don't bother. Instead, I give everything a nice coating of Ballistol which makes any fouling left in the pits harmless.

Yes, cleaning up after shooting BP is messy. But it is quick and easy. It requires less elbow grease than cleaning up after Smokeless. Cleaning a cartridge revolver after shooting it with BP cartridges is easier than cleaning a C&B revolver because the chambers are bored through the cylinder. No nooks and crannies as there are in a C&B cylinder. No nipples to deal with. Just run the patches straight through the chambers.

Did I mention I have been doing this for 20 years?

Oh, to the OP, no point trying to load 30-30 with Black Powder. 30-30 has always been a Smokeless powder cartridge since it first appeared around 1894 for the Winchester Model 1894.

Winchester had this oddball idea when they came out with the 32 Winchester Special, factory loads were smokeless then reload it with black powder. Since the 32 ballistics are identical to the 30/30 why not reload it with black powder?

My first hand loads used FFG Triple 7 in .44 mag under 200gr Berger bullets. I used the regular lube on the bullet. They were a lot of fun to shoot (smokey and messy). If I remember right, you can compress the powder 0.1”. Clean-up was easy enough with just water.

Jackrabbit1957 said:

Winchester had this oddball idea when they came out with the 32 Winchester Special, factory loads were smokeless then reload it with black powder. Since the 32 ballistics are identical to the 30/30 why not reload it with black powder?

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If you want to load a 30-30 with real Black Powder, you will need a bullet that carries BP compatible bullet lube. With modern bullet lube the fouling will mix with the lube and form a hard,. crusty, residue that is difficult to remove. Soft BP compatible bullet lubes will keep the fouling soft and easy to remove.

I loaded up 190gr JSP in 30-30 with 29gr of pyrodex. It went across the chronograph at a surprisingly consistent 1,256fps +/-6 if I remember correctly.
I probably could have fit 30 or 31gr of pyrodex in there. Maybe 32 or 33 if compressed.
That's plenty for any deer or smaller bear if you can get close enough.

Jackrabbit1957 said:

Winchester had this oddball idea when they came out with the 32 Winchester Special, factory loads were smokeless then reload it with black powder. Since the 32 ballistics are identical to the 30/30 why not reload it with black powder?

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It was explained to me, years ago, that the bore diameter of .32 Special and rate of twist of .32 Special barrels made the cartridge a compromise that worked well with either smokeless or black powder, BUT the bore diameter and rate of twist of .30-30 worked best with smokeless powder, and poorly with BP.

That said, me, my son, and another participant used our .30-30s, two Marlins and a Winchester, in the Black Powder Cartridge matches at the gun club with pretty good results.

J-Bar said:

... Real blackpowder and some subs tolerate compression. 777 doesn’t. ...

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That has been my experience with BP and Pyrodex RS, P & Ctg and 777 powder form in cartridges.
777 case level even with the base of the bullet after the powder settles, no crunching, no looseness after seating the bullet.
I've decided not to use 777 powder in my muzzleloaders.

DMW1116 said:

I’ve been having lots of fun with my new to me Ruger Blackhawk, both in terms of reloading and shooting. I was searching for different loads and came across the Hodgden page for using their black powder substitute Triple Seven for the above cartridges. I’m not really into cowboy action shooting but if that’s what it takes to get to use my revolver maybe it’s worth a try. Does anyone use this data?

I know next to nothing about black powder reloading but it looks like I need some background information. Evidently charges are measured in volume instead of weight and compressed loads are not good. Is there a manual or general guide for this sort of thing?

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30-30 is not used for cowboy action shooting except for some occasional long range matches at regional and national shoots. and no I would not use black powder or substitute in 30-30 anyway, it was introduced as a smokeless cartridge so why load it with black?

In muzzle loading I seem to remember the shot wouldn't fire if the load wasn't compressed or virtually compressed. A bunch of dead space would cause misfires.
Say I was shooting 100gr for a bunch of shots then dropped down to 70gr for some reason, the fowling would keepthe bullet from setting on the powder I would get a misfire or hang fire every time.