Scout rifle for our current times

H&Hhunter · Mar 22, 2022

.38 Special said:
On the whole, I think it still is worth stepping back and asking ourselves, in Cooper's words, "What is it that we are trying to achieve"? Obviously there are some things that cannot be achieved, or at least cannot be easily achieved - with a Scout rifle. Again, I would not seek out a gunfight with one, nor enter a 1000 yard match, nor tackle a Cape Buffalo. The idea was to have a rifle which was easy to carry, which had adequate power for typical North American game, which could be counted upon for anything from a quick snap shot to a 200 yard (300, if considered an absolute necessity) hit on a realistically sized target, and which would be a reliable companion in the unlikely event it was needed for defense.

I personally have turned to a handgun for nearly all of my woods loafing - and have always been a handgunner rather than a rifleman - but still think that for "practical riflecraft" (which, as @trackskippy points out, is a dying game if there ever was one) the Scout concept is as valid as it ever was.

A scout set up makes an almost perfect dangerous game platform, and is in fact why the original Cooper scouts came in .308 and .376 Steyr. The .376 was designed with Cape buffalo specifically in mind. I’ve seen a few DG set up 458 Lott’s with forward mounted scout scopes.

.38 Special · Mar 22, 2022

H&Hhunter said:
A scout set up makes an almost perfect dangerous game platform, and is in fact why the original Cooper scouts came in .308 and .376 Steyr. The .376 was designed with Cape buffalo specifically in mind. I’ve seen a few DG set up 458 Lott’s with forward mounted scout scopes.

Sure. Cooper had a name for such a thing, though. I think it might have been "Super Scout" or something like that. At any rate, I do not mean that the platform is not appropriate, but rather that the .308 is not.

H&Hhunter · Mar 22, 2022

.38 Special said:
Sure. Cooper had a name for such a thing, though. I think it might have been "Super Scout" or something like that. At any rate, I do not mean that the platform is not appropriate, but rather that the .308 is not.

Dragoon was the name Cooper used for the .376 version.

Jerry M · Mar 22, 2022

H&Hhunter said:
A scout set up makes an almost perfect dangerous game platform, and is in fact why the original Cooper scouts came in .308 and .376 Steyr. The .376 was designed with Cape buffalo specifically in mind. I’ve seen a few DG set up 458 Lott’s with forward mounted scout scopes.

Wasn't the .376 Steyr a result of Cooper's failed attempt of killing a Cape Buffalo with the .350 Remington Magnum - "Super Scout", if my memory serves me correctly?

The Happy Kaboomer · Mar 22, 2022

Beck said:
A forward mounted scope is one of the fastest on target of all. I've been using them for 30 years before red dots were a thing. For me a forward mounted scout scope is absolutely the fastest... like lightning. But I've been using them and perfecting my technique for a long time.

No it is not and never will be. A close mounted scope allows full vision when the rifle is shouldered. A smaller scope mounted halfway down the gun will always take more time to line and get on target. Also it throws the rifle out of balance and snags on ever branch and vine you walk by. As I stated in an earlier post .That setup really sucks at dawn and dusk.

WrongHanded · Mar 22, 2022

The Happy Kaboomer said:
No it is not and never will be. A close mounted scope allows full vision when the rifle is shouldered. A smaller scope mounted halfway down the gun will always take more time to line and get on target. Also it throws the rifle out of balance and snags on ever branch and vine you walk by. As I stated in an earlier post .That setup really sucks at dawn and dusk.

I think he means for snap shooting with both eyes open. The eye relief range is very forgiving. You focus on the target with both eyes open, and keep that focus as the rifle is brought up. The dominant eye loses the target as the scope comes up in front of it, but the non-dominant eye keeps both pointed in the right direction. Then the reticle pops up in front on the dominant eye, with the target behind it.

As far as snagging goes, I guess that depends on how you carry the rifle. For me, it's in the hand so I can move it out of the way of brush. Or is carried African style under my non-dominant arm, where it's protected from brush.

trackskippy · Mar 22, 2022

The Happy Kaboomer said:
No it is not and never will be. A close mounted scope allows full vision when the rifle is shouldered. A smaller scope mounted halfway down the gun will always take more time to line and get on target. Also it throws the rifle out of balance and snags on ever branch and vine you walk by. As I stated in an earlier post .That setup really sucks at dawn and dusk.

You've obviously never shot one in the manner Beck describes. It's just like a forward mounted red dot in that respect too.

With a traditionally mounted scope, you have to look through the scope to see the target and your focus is on that. With the forward mounted scope, your focus is on the target and the crosshairs (or in the case of a red dot, the dot) appear on the target where you are looking, as the gun is shouldered and you get a cheek weld.

I've always found the balance was better and the snags no worse than a traditionally mounted scope.

H&Hhunter · Mar 22, 2022

Jerry M said:
Wasn't the .376 Steyr a result of Cooper's failed attempt of killing a Cape Buffalo with the .350 Remington Magnum - "Super Scout", if my memory serves me correctly?

The .376 was designed to be an African thick skinned DG legal variation of the Steyr Scout. He mentions the .350 RM story but the simple fact of the matter is at the time, .375 was the minimum legal diameter for DG hunting in most African countries so a .350 wouldn’t have accomplished the mission. As mentioned several post prior, it was called the Dragoon Scout. I’ve owned one and a good friend still has his.

H&Hhunter · Mar 22, 2022

The .350 RM was the Super Scout the .376 was the Dragoon Scout.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.376_Steyr

35 Whelen · Mar 22, 2022

The Happy Kaboomer said:
No it is not and never will be. A close mounted scope allows full vision when the rifle is shouldered. A smaller scope mounted halfway down the gun will always take more time to line and get on target. Also it throws the rifle out of balance and snags on ever branch and vine you walk by. As I stated in an earlier post .That setup really sucks at dawn and dusk.

Actually it is very fast, and additionally, it allows one to see what's going on around them, not just what's seen in the scope. You should try it.

35W

H&Hhunter · Mar 23, 2022

The Happy Kaboomer said:
No it is not and never will be. A close mounted scope allows full vision when the rifle is shouldered. A smaller scope mounted halfway down the gun will always take more time to line and get on target. Also it throws the rifle out of balance and snags on ever branch and vine you walk by. As I stated in an earlier post .That setup really sucks at dawn and dusk.

That hasn’t been my experience with a properly mounted scout scope. Except for the back lighting issue with a low sun, that can be an issue for sure.

Gordon · Mar 23, 2022

H&Hhunter said:
The .350 RM was the Super Scout the .376 was the Dragoon Scout.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.376_Steyr

All the other opinions and wrong information about the Scout concept except your refreshing Experience H&H. I believe the .350 rem Mag Scout in Cols vault was referred to as the " Lion Scout. ". I think else where it or another heavy calibers we're refered also as a Super Scout. As far as Scouts go during the Scout rifle course you were expected to hit at least one slow launched skeet with their scout with forward optic ( 2 power before RD sights !) Which our know it all posters would still be there with a conventional mounted scope I imagine.Mayne some could do it with open sights, I saw that being done.

.38 Special · Mar 23, 2022

The Happy Kaboomer said:
No it is not and never will be. A close mounted scope allows full vision when the rifle is shouldered. A smaller scope mounted halfway down the gun will always take more time to line and get on target. Also it throws the rifle out of balance and snags on ever branch and vine you walk by. As I stated in an earlier post .That setup really sucks at dawn and dusk.

As the kids say, "Tell me you haven't actually used a Scout scope without telling me you haven't actually used a Scout scope".

txcookie · Mar 26, 2022

Gents let's just be honest most of us are not in gunfighter shape. A 22 yr old running around with a trained team will kill you if you engage for more than a shot. Your best bet is to camp out and use your deer rifle. Keep a shot gun handy and be ready for them to light your house on fire.

BigBlue 94 · Mar 26, 2022

Ruger 96/44. Short throw lever action in 44mag (or special!) with an IQM 10 round magazine. Preferably a half dozen a more on the belt for a full-on scout mission. And a couple 4 round rotary mags for the ultra clandestine maneuvers. Wouldn't mind a red dot for practicality. Its 5 pounds without a magazine. And pretty darned short. If i need more firepower than that, then any semi auto with a big magazine will do.

As for where i prefer a scope to be mounted, i like about 5-6" of eye relief. I have great vision, but any closer than about 6" and i have to focus, at which point the reticle disappears. I prefer my flat top AR15 rear iron sights to be above the chamber.

tallpaul · Mar 26, 2022

a 10/22 with a suppressor would be far from useless

35 Whelen · Mar 26, 2022

txcookie said:
Gents let's just be honest most of us are not in gunfighter shape. A 22 yr old running around with a trained team will kill you if you engage for more than a shot. Your best bet is to camp out and use your deer rifle. Keep a shot gun handy and be ready for them to light your house on fire.

In the six pages of replies, this is the wisest post yet. Thinking that stockpiling AR's, 30 round magazines and pallets of ammunition somehow leads to immortality is a bit silly.

Years and years ago, long before SHTF and hoarding ammunition and guns was a "thing", I read an article in which the author pointed out that thinking one could survive one firefight after another was unrealistic. Rather the man that knew how to survive would be the one who knew how to hide and avoid contact with ne'er-do-wells, yet was proficient with a good, basic scoped bolt rifle chambered in a common hunting caliber such as .270 or .308.

35W

WrongHanded · Mar 26, 2022

35 Whelen said:
In the six pages of replies, this is the wisest post yet. Thinking that stockpiling AR's, 30 round magazines and pallets of ammunition somehow leads to immortality is a bit silly.

Years and years ago, long before SHTF and hoarding ammunition and guns was a "thing", I read an article in which the author pointed out that thinking one could survive one firefight after another was unrealistic. Rather the man that knew how to survive would be the one who knew how to hide and avoid contact with ne'er-do-wells, yet was proficient with a good, basic scoped bolt rifle chambered in a common hunting caliber such as .270 or .308.

35W

Thank you and @txcookie for pointing this out. It's sad to think that this isn't obvious to everyone who considers the potential problem for a few minutes. And yet apparently it is not.

chicharrones · Mar 27, 2022

txcookie said:
Gents let's just be honest most of us are not in gunfighter shape. A 22 yr old running around with a trained team will kill you if you engage for more than a shot. Your best bet is to camp out and use your deer rifle. Keep a shot gun handy and be ready for them to light your house on fire.

The cheap version of discovering that reality is to go play laser tag with your kids or grandkids in a building full of other young'uns. I tend to die soon and often.

trackskippy · Mar 27, 2022

The big problem with these kinds of "discussions" is, its a "gun board" and the only answer to any problem always seems to be the gun (duh

), no matter what it is.

Considering that most people around where I live barely have enough ammo on hand to get through one hunting season, the SHTF should be pretty short lived if all they do is shoot. :thumbup:

But this is Amish country, so city people SHTF is daily life, and life is good, especially if you like Moon Pies.

jeepnik · Apr 1, 2022

Sorry, didn't mean to upset folks by the weight of "my" choice for a scout rifle. But you see I once used a 5.56 pos and darn near got killed. I switched to an M14 and never ever in all these years looked back.

But, if "my" first choice isn't acceptable, I'll just use this.

This one only weighs 7#'s

Ignition Override · Apr 2, 2022

Again, let's ask the Ukrainian guys who patrol for Russians in many post-apocalyptic wastelands.

They "walk the walk". Nothing academic for them.

What do they prefer, no matter how many few choices, if any?

Frostbite · Apr 2, 2022

Ukraine is facing the second army in the world, it is different. A professional (I am aware of their present difficulty or challenges) army and an angry mob or lone drifters don't represent the same kind of threat.

Remington used to produce a semi in .243 just a few years ago, looking like it was strongly inspired by the AR-15, that could have served both roles of a big game and a battle rifle, I guess, if it was reliable. Never saw one except on the Internet, can't remember the name it was given by the marketing department.

d2wing · Apr 2, 2022

I was thinking of a bolt action .22 as the best choice. Now I am turning to a good quality pellet gun. I can carry 1000 rounds, not give away my position and kill all the eating size game I need. Big game will be gone quickly. The best way to survive a gun fight is to not have one. Just an idea. A centerfire pistol would probably be necessary as well.

3Crows · Apr 2, 2022

The whole scout concept by Cooper is conflicted. A light, all purpose hunting rifle for any NA game. Quick and potent in a .308 caliber. Accurate enough for at least several hundred yards and reliable. Okay, sounds good. Then he goes and throws in the ability to engage the enemy! What enemy might I encounter while scouting out a good deer hunting location? Foolishness. I do like forward mounted scopes on some rifles.

3C

Scout rifle for our current times

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