Before You Buy An RDS Check For Astigmatism

Did you know astigmatism makes red dot sights blurry/starbursty?

  • No

    Votes: 6 10.0%
  • Yes

    Votes: 54 90.0%

  • Total voters
    60
Status
Not open for further replies.

twofewscrews

Member
Joined
May 19, 2021
Messages
310
Location
Rochester, NY
So back in February, based on the recommendations from various THR members (not placing blame, its my eyes, not your fault for making good faith recommendations), I picked up a Bushnell TRS-25 for use as a range toy. What I didn't know then, or rather didn't realize, was that I have astigmatism in both eyes. When I looked through the optic I saw a starburst shaped dot instead of an actual dot. This didn't bother me as I had heard mixed reviews about the red dot and its clarity under various light conditions.The starburst was more pronounced in low light conditions and all but vanished when I took it out to the range for the first time in bright sunny conditions. Last weekend I went to the range with a friend on a cloudy day and had a lot of trouble dialing it in. The starburst was so pronounced that I was unable to properly zero it but my friend did not have the same trouble I did.

An intense internet search (its hard to find information when you don't know what to search) revealed that people with astigmatism have trouble using red dots.

Astigmatism basically means your eyes are football shaped rather spherical. Astigmatism_(Eye).png

If car lights halo or appear blurry you probably have astigmatism
Astigmatism.jpg
If you already have a red dot that appears blurred or otherwise broken before you blame the RDS rotate the RDS clockwise or counter clockwise. If the image remains constant it's your eyes. If the image rotates its the RDS.

From my research I found that there are four fixes and none of them are 100 percent guaranteed to work.

The first and least expensive fix is polarized shooting glasses. The polarization color to correct the astigmatism, yellow red, grey, black, etc. will be entirely dependent on your eyes. Depending on how bad your astigmatism is this may or may not work.

The second is to get corrective lenses or contacts. This method has produced pretty good results but can be expensive and once again, depending on how bad your astigmatism is may not work. An optometrist can make you safety rated corrective lenses for shooting but not all optometrists are capable of this.

The third method is corrective eye surgery which is almost guaranteed to work but is the most expensive method unless you have great insurance.

The fourth option is to get a prism based optic/rds. An RDS works on a reflective principle. The light if transmitted to the front lense and then reflected back towards your eye, thus people with astigmatism see blurred or starburst like dots instead of clean crisp red dots. I can't quite explain how a prism optic works, but this image from Monstrum should do the trick. prism-red-dot-comparison-infographics.jpg
From what I have read, I have not purchased a prism optic yet, prism optics work for people with astigmatism. Some people have had good results with true holographic but others have not whereas prism optics seemingly always work.

I'm no expert but I hope this information is helpful to someone. I searched the forum for astigmatism in conjunction with RDS and while there were posts in threads about RDS that mentioned astigmatism there was nothing specifically talking about how astigmatism affects using an RDS or workarounds/fixes. Hopefully this will prevent someone from making the same mistake I did.

Happy hunting
 
I see several blurry/starry dots. I’ve been looking into eye surgery and was told no insurance covers the lens and laser treatment to fix astigmatism, only basic replacement lens.
 
Here is another trick that helps with a RDS and astigmatism. Turn the brightness down until you can barely see it for the lighting conditions you are in. This helps out quite a bit. The brighter the dot, the worse the "bloom" will be. I have also found that green reticles have less bloom for me versus red reticles.
 
I answered yes; it's kind of my job to know that. I'm an optician. Men are more likely to have trouble with red dots vs. green, and as has been mentioned, turning it down as far as possible with still being able to see it helps.
If you have astigmatism (not an astigmatism, BTW; just astigmatism. If it's just in one eye, the correct term is unilateral astigmatism, OD or OS.) please get some form of correction, whether it be glasses, contacts or Lasik. This will make those dots nice and round again. (Or at least as close as possible.)

If car lights halo or appear blurry you probably have astigmatism

Or a windshield that needs cleaning.

Astigmatism basically means your eyes are football shaped rather spherical

You're half right; The cornea, when viewed from the front, is football shaped; this is an exaggeration, but it illustrates the point. Eyeballs that are too long are myopic, not necessarily astigmatic. One could be both, like I am.

The polarization color to correct the astigmatism, yellow red, grey, black, etc. will be entirely dependent on your eyes. Depending on how bad your astigmatism is this may or may not work.

This is "toothpaste takes scratches off lenses" logic. It's not usable in about 99% situations with astigmatism. The correct solutions are; corrective spectacles with sphero-toric lenses, toric contacts, or Lasik. The best solution will be determined by the severity of the astigmatism.
BTW, in the 1% of cases where polarization will work to reduce the visual effects of astigmatism, it is the polarization itself that does it, not the color. Clear (well almost) polarized lenses are available. The downside the also fuzz things up due to the nature of polarization lamination. It's like looking through horizontal Venetian blinds, you're going to lose definition along with reducing light transmission in the indirect aspects. (Glare)

An optometrist can make you safety rated corrective lenses for shooting but not all optometrists are capable of this.

Very few OD's, and even fewer MD's, generate or cut their own lenses anymore. Some OD's still actually fit their patients for glasses, but usually they turn this over to the optician. Not all opticians know how to fit shooting-specific glasses either. The one I recommend is Wayne Morgan, at Morgan Optical, in Olean, NY.
 
Last edited:
Cataract surgery solved my red dot constellation problem............long time ago injury and age caused the development of a rather severe cataract in my right (shootin') eye, and when the driver lic. bureau refused to issue till corrected. My physician wouldn't do the lens replacement himself ,due the injury, and sent me to Shands in Gainsville, fl.....wound up with the head of that dept. doing the work, and boy did it work out well. Crystal clear vision with no focal issue at all. First thing I did on getting home was to pick up that previously star filled scope and found it to be clear and with that desired aim point............kinda rough when you hafta figure out just which of the multiple points you see is the real one!

It's funny, but I just had my final appointment with my Doc. thursday as I just had my left eye done (11 years after the first, but wth I'm 81)) and I was telling one of the technicians how I first noticed an abberation in my vision, started with a focus issue in binoculars......I actually first blamed the device and then found a replacement had the same issue! 20/20 @ 81 ain't bad at all.

Pays to do those checkups!!
 
I have astigmatism and shoot dots on several pistols and an AR. The dot is irregular and sometimes looks like a bunch of grapes. I just put the biggest part in the middle. I never considered a red dot to be a precision optic anyway.

My method as well, works for PCC matches.

Any AR hat I plan on using for distance gets a LPVO, that way I can adjust. IF it really bothered me I'd probably get a 1X prism scope.
 
The market for Prisms is exceptionally smaller than the market of Reflex Sights - and pricing typically favors the reflex.

Put the bug splatter on the target, and you’ll hit what you want to hit. It’s just a matter of appearance, not function.

I have a comma in one eye (,) and a star in the other (*), and neither actually changes the point of impact.
 
I have RDS sights on all of my pistols and my AR-10. If I sight with my left eye, the dot is almost perfect, the right eye, it's a small cluster. I primarily sight with my left eye now, after training it to be my master eye. I do practice with my right eye, and just go for 'center mass' of the little cluster of dots. Works for me. YMMV.
 
I have a slight astigmatism in my left eye. It is one of the reasons I do not shoot dot optics with both of my eyes open, like you are "supposed" to do. Looking at most dots with both eyes, I can still see the "smear" even though I am right eye dominant. I have noticed on the dot optics I have owned, that green is least affected by the astigmatism. And a dot in circle type reticle as well. Green plus dot in circle reticle is what I use on my 507c optic. With these settings I am getting better at leaving both my eyes open.

Even with my astigmatism, I am a fan of dot optics on firearms. Handguns and all.
 
I to have astigmatism, some dots work better than others. the one on my granddaughters 22 rifle I absolutely cannot use, she has won state and national level completions with it. And yes I do shoot red dot sights I have Burris ff2 on my pcc and my 22 rifle I shoot steel challenge with, and a vortex venom on my carry optics gun. My suggestion for red dots and holo sights is same as a pistol try before you buy. What works for some may not work for you.
 
I have an astigmatism and see a lower case "k" in a RDS. The brighter the dot the worse it is. Once I got used to it, it really doesn't bother me, and can still shoot pretty decent with it. My polarized shooting sunglasses do seem to help. I still have a preference for LPVO's, even though I can still get starburst on the illuminated dot if I have it on "nuclear bright"
 
Interesting thread, I just thought things looked that way to everybody. Was sitting here trying to decide whether to put the Burris Fast Fire back on the gun and try it again or to just pass. I expect I will pass now. That picture of driving at night sure looks like I see. With my corrective glasses.
 
Ive got 'eagle' eyes. Great at a distance but blurry as heck at 6 inches and closer. For an RDS or iron sights, i place them past that distance (above the chamber on an AR15) and get a clear picture. Dunno if that would help in this situation or not. Also makes it so i cant use binoculars. I just look through one lol!

Green is the first color our eyes register. Its brighter and therefore the power can be turned down farther.
 
I have astigmatism due to an eye injury and surgery in my younger years. I have tried many red dots, even green dots, and they all “blowout.” I finally tried an EOTech and love it.
 
So back in February, based on the recommendations from various THR members (not placing blame, its my eyes, not your fault for making good faith recommendations), I picked up a Bushnell TRS-25 for use as a range toy. What I didn't know then, or rather didn't realize, was that I have astigmatism in both eyes. When I looked through the optic I saw a starburst shaped dot instead of an actual dot. This didn't bother me as I had heard mixed reviews about the red dot and its clarity under various light conditions.The starburst was more pronounced in low light conditions and all but vanished when I took it out to the range for the first time in bright sunny conditions. Last weekend I went to the range with a friend on a cloudy day and had a lot of trouble dialing it in. The starburst was so pronounced that I was unable to properly zero it but my friend did not have the same trouble I did.

An intense internet search (its hard to find information when you don't know what to search) revealed that people with astigmatism have trouble using red dots.

Astigmatism basically means your eyes are football shaped rather spherical. View attachment 1068230

If car lights halo or appear blurry you probably have astigmatism
View attachment 1068232
If you already have a red dot that appears blurred or otherwise broken before you blame the RDS rotate the RDS clockwise or counter clockwise. If the image remains constant it's your eyes. If the image rotates its the RDS.

From my research I found that there are four fixes and none of them are 100 percent guaranteed to work.

The first and least expensive fix is polarized shooting glasses. The polarization color to correct the astigmatism, yellow red, grey, black, etc. will be entirely dependent on your eyes. Depending on how bad your astigmatism is this may or may not work.

The second is to get corrective lenses or contacts. This method has produced pretty good results but can be expensive and once again, depending on how bad your astigmatism is may not work. An optometrist can make you safety rated corrective lenses for shooting but not all optometrists are capable of this.

The third method is corrective eye surgery which is almost guaranteed to work but is the most expensive method unless you have great insurance.

The fourth option is to get a prism based optic/rds. An RDS works on a reflective principle. The light if transmitted to the front lense and then reflected back towards your eye, thus people with astigmatism see blurred or starburst like dots instead of clean crisp red dots. I can't quite explain how a prism optic works, but this image from Monstrum should do the trick. View attachment 1068246
From what I have read, I have not purchased a prism optic yet, prism optics work for people with astigmatism. Some people have had good results with true holographic but others have not whereas prism optics seemingly always work.

I'm no expert but I hope this information is helpful to someone. I searched the forum for astigmatism in conjunction with RDS and while there were posts in threads about RDS that mentioned astigmatism there was nothing specifically talking about how astigmatism affects using an RDS or workarounds/fixes. Hopefully this will prevent someone from making the same mistake I did.

Happy hunting
I am on the same boat, and the work around for me is/was to switch to a green optic. Inexpensive red dot sights were good up until 7 years ago, plus the constant use of computer monitors made this worst. I am fond of optics capable to display a combination of dot only, ring and dot or ring only. Holosun are my favorite on pistols and rifles.
 
It’s an interesting topic,
As I have gotten older, my astigmatism has gotten worse.
It’s not just red dots. I first noticed that the rear peep sights are no longer round, they are a slanted oval.
What I have found with my red dots is that I have the least trouble if I adjust them to the light conditions, meaning I need to set them near the lowest setting I can see and then they look more like a dot. The brighter the ambient light, the higher I can set the red dot intensity.
if it looks like a splat or multiple dots, I need to turn it down.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top