.338-06 vs .30-06 for a Bush Gun.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hesa Hard1 said:
The 600s and 660s in .350RM were a very misunderstood combination of a true brush carbine chambered for the world’s first short-action magnum. Plus, a lot dudes got a bad case of the flinches. They were decades ahead of their time.

For Alaska, my 600 would be loaded with the .358/250grn slugs. For lower 48 critters, which for me is mostly deer and hogs, the .358/200grn bullets are more than enough.
Click to expand...

I managed to get slightly over 2500 with both the Speer and Nosler 250s with my 20" barrel. It's definitely doable.

Here's a custom factory load with a 250 NPT at 2532 FPS that makes 2.8" mag length:

https://choiceammunition.com/produc...m-250-grain-nosler-partition-100-hand-loaded/

Here's load data for a 250 Speer Hotcore at 2500 FPS:

https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/rifle/350_Remington_Magnum_250.pdf

I agree it'seems overkill for the lower 48. I've read good things about the Barnes 225 TSX FB and TAC but haven't been able to find any. Unfortunate, because I'm sitting on 9 lbs of TAC and I'm running low on my IMR 4320.

What are you loading for 200s? I worked up a load for Hornady SPs at 2830, but haven't tagged anything with it yet.
 
Flight01 said:
Thanks!
30/06 is a trusty stand by. I’d say 350-400yard max on moose for me. Others might go further. But if you think maybe your going to see 400+ yard shots then the 338-06 and 210 nosler partitions or 200 accubonds or even 225 accubonds/ interbonds sounds like a great choice.
Sorry always reference bullet performance on moose. Out of habit. But on deer size game both rifles could stretch out the yardage.
Click to expand...

The 400 yard number is kinda my pre-determined limit. And honestly that’d be like a last day of the trip kind of stretch for me. We have a 1000 yard range on the farm to practice on but is hunting at 1000 yards hunting or target practice? It’d be a way cooler story if I told you we worked our way within 100 yards on the critter.

As for bullets I’m kind of torn. I am a midwest native and am loyal to Hornady for alot of my reloads but if I ever make it on a moose trip it’d probably be a heavy Nosler Partition in the gun.
 
Using the 338 RCM has married me to Hornady for a few years. Now ammo is not being produced I have kept all brass and have a box of 100 hornady Interbond 225 grain bullets ready to test.
Oh yeah and I also stockpiled … only have 8 boxes of factory ammo left. :)
 
Chuck R. said:
I managed to get slightly over 2500 with both the Speer and Nosler 250s with my 20" barrel. It's definitely doable.

Here's a custom factory load with a 250 NPT at 2532 FPS that makes 2.8" mag length:
https://choiceammunition.com/produc...m-250-grain-nosler-partition-100-hand-loaded/
Here's load data for a 250 Speer Hotcore at 2500 FPS:
https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/rifle/350_Remington_Magnum_250.pdf
I agree it'seems overkill for the lower 48. I've read good things about the Barnes 225 TSX FB and TAC but haven't been able to find any. Unfortunate, because I'm sitting on 9 lbs of TAC and I'm running low on my IMR 4320.
What are you loading for 200s? I worked up a load for Hornady SPs at 2830, but haven't tagged anything with it yet.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the links.

Yeah, I’ve wondered about proper COAL for the 250grn bullets in my 600’s action. I thought I’d read somewhere that Nosler’s version was too long to use in 600/660-action unless it was really jammed into the case, at which point there’s little usable space left the powder to reach .350 RM velocities. I’m sitting on a few boxes of NOS Remington 250grn ammo.

I just finished up loading a batch of Hornady 200grn RN over Varget in NOS brass since I’m well stock on it. I also have a good amount of RL-15, but haven’t had time to try it.

For a reduced “plinking” load, I’ve got a few pounds of 5744 on hand.
 
Hesa Hard1 said:
Thanks for the links.

Yeah, I’ve wondered about proper COAL for the 250grn bullets in my 600’s action. I thought I’d read somewhere that Nosler’s version was too long to use in 600/660-action unless it was really jammed into the case, at which point there’s little usable space left the powder to reach .350 RM velocities. I’m sitting on a few boxes of NOS Remington 250grn ammo.

I just finished up loading a batch of Hornady 200grn RN over Varget in NOS brass since I’m well stock on it. I also have a good amount of RL-15, but haven’t had time to try it.

For a reduced “plinking” load, I’ve got a few pounds of 5744 on hand.
Click to expand...


What's the mag length on the 600? I always assumed it was the same as the M7, so around 2.82" or so. Nosler lists a 250 Partition load at 2.78" OAL that gets 2500FPS out of a 22" tube:

https://www.nosler.com/350-remington-magnum

It sounds like you're set on brass.

For the rest of the .350RM fans, I'm now set up to convert belted mag brass (7mm, .338, .300Win Mag, Etc.) to .350RM including annealing. IF you guys run short, you can send me some brass and I'll convert it for you for the cost of return shipping. I figure IF we all keep shooting, maybe the availability of .358 bullets will go up!
 
Chuck R. said:
What's the mag length on the 600? I always assumed it was the same as the M7, so around 2.82" or so. Nosler lists a 250 Partition load at 2.78" OAL that gets 2500FPS out of a 22" tube:
https://www.nosler.com/350-remington-magnum
Click to expand...
The 600, or at least mine, is a tight 2.800”. So you have to critically eye-ball seating-depth above 200grns. The NOS Remmy 250grn ammo I have uses shorter RN bullets, not like the Noslers at all. Speer’s and Sierra’s .358”/250-grainers are shorter also than Nosler’s, I believe.

There have been some 350RM rifles that run the cartridge on a long (or longer) action, like the old Ruger M77s and the Remmy 700 Classics that chambered it.

The “Pet Loads” author used his personal Ruger M77 to develop load data in his chapter on .350RM and specifically noted that bullet-length was an issue with heavier bullets in the short-action 600s/660s.
 
Last edited:
KansasTrapper77 said:
That’s kinda what I figured. That the .338-06 literally has less of a bottleneck to constrict the gasses. And the affect would be I could possibly fire 185gr .338 from a 20in barrel at the same velocity as I could fire a 180gr .30 from a 22 inch barrel. And if not the same velocity then at a lower pressure.
Click to expand...
I'd expect the 185 gr .338-06 to be faster out of a 20" barrel than a 180 gr out of a 22" .30-06. Just a quick look at Barnes load data for example: 185 gr .338-06 @ 2,936 fps (second fastest powder) out of a 25" barrel; 180 gr .30-06 @ 2,712 fps (second fastest powder) out of a 24" barrel. So, more than 200 fps difference. The .338-06 isn't going to lose 200 fps if you cut 3" off the barrel (making it 2" shorter than the .30-06).
 
Last edited:
KansasTrapper77 said:
And one of the largest recorded bears taken in Alaska was shot with a .22 caliber rimfire.

I personally think shot placement holds more water than anything.

Yes I understand the importance of quality bullets of proper weight but that really wasn’t the question.
Click to expand...


If you are referring to the worlds record grizzly taken by Bella Twin, that was in Alberta Canada and she used a single shot rifle chambered for the 22 Long. The first shot, at maybe 30 feet, stunned the bear and dropped it. The next six or seven shots were administered from close, nearly contact, range. I admire that Cree woman but there is no way in hell I consider a 22 Long proper bear medicine.

That bear is still the biggest one taken in Alberta.

Kevin
 
StrawHat said:
If you are referring to the worlds record grizzly taken by Bella Twin, that was in Alberta Canada and she used a single shot rifle chambered for the 22 Long. The first shot, at maybe 30 feet, stunned the bear and dropped it. The next six or seven shots were administered from close, nearly contact, range. I admire that Cree woman but there is no way in hell I consider a 22 Long proper bear medicine.

That bear is still the biggest one taken in Alberta.

Kevin
Click to expand...

My details are little fuzzy sorry. :) but that gal was definitely tougher than nails.

But thats my standard smartass response to anyone who tells me my rifle cartridge of choice isn’t big enough. “Welllll I wouldn’t shoot an elk with anything smaller than a 300 Win Mag.” Really? And back in the day guys were killing lions with .303s and Elephants with .30-06s huh….
 
KansasTrapper77 said:
My details are little fuzzy sorry. :) but that gal was definitely tougher than nails.

But thats my standard smartass response to anyone who tells me my rifle cartridge of choice isn’t big enough. “Welllll I wouldn’t shoot an elk with anything smaller than a 300 Win Mag.” Really? And back in the day guys were killing lions with .303s and Elephants with .30-06s huh….
Click to expand...
Not to mention, some of the first formerly Mil-issue rifles taking down big game in the lower 48 as well as in Alaska in the early decades of the 20th Century (like elk, moose, caribou, brown/black bears, etc.) were 30-40 Krag rifles and .30-06 1903 Springers and RIAs converted by local gunsmiths into ”sporter” trim.

Today the old 220grn RN Krag load @ 2000fps would never be mistaken for a magnum, but it dropped a lot of mean furry stuff back then. Ditto the old 200grn and 220grn ‘06 ammo that Elmer Keith talks about in one of his books.

And if you felt you needed something bigger but weren’t a rich dude, there was the “Poor Man’s Magnum.”

For the cost of a simple re-barrel, the owner of a 1903 or other ‘06 rifle could get it converted into that wildcat chambering later called the .35 Whelen. :thumbup:
 
Hesa Hard1 said:
Not to mention, some of the first formerly Mil-issue rifles taking down big game in the lower 48 as well as in Alaska in the early decades of the 20th Century (like elk, moose, caribou, brown/black bears, etc.) were 30-40 Krag rifles and .30-06 1903 Springers and RIAs converted by local gunsmiths into ”sporter” trim.

Today the old 220grn RN Krag load @ 2000fps would never be mistaken for a magnum, but it dropped a lot of mean furry stuff back then. Ditto the old 200grn and 220grn ‘06 ammo that Elmer Keith talks about in one of his books.

And if you felt you needed something bigger but weren’t a rich dude, there was the “Poor Man’s Magnum.”

For the cost of a simple re-barrel, the owner of a 1903 or other ‘06 rifle could get it converted into that wildcat chambering later called the .35 Whelen. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

But animals were a lot weaker and smaller back then..:D or a lot of hunters could run faster!
 
KansasTrapper77 said:
My details are little fuzzy sorry. :) but that gal was definitely tougher than nails.

But thats my standard smartass response to anyone who tells me my rifle cartridge of choice isn’t big enough. “Welllll I wouldn’t shoot an elk with anything smaller than a 300 Win Mag.” Really? And back in the day guys were killing lions with .303s and Elephants with .30-06s huh….
Click to expand...

I put away my 7 mag and 300 WinMag quite a few years ago. Five elk have met their end from my little 308. All five and six point bulls taken between 150 and 300 yards. Every year I look at those really fine magnum rifles and think I should hunt with them but invariably grab the light weight 308. I guess I’m just a sissy.
 
wombat13 said:
I’d think the .338-06 should do better with a shorter barrel than .30-06. Larger bore with about the same amount of powder means the gas will expand faster and pressure will drop faster. This allows the use of faster burn rate powders and/or shorter barrels. Dividing case volume by bore area yields 713 gr per sq in for .338-06. .308 win is 752, .30-06 is 915 and .300wm is 1152. You’ll often see a .300wm with a 24” barrel, sometimes a 26” and very rarely a 22”. Most common for .30-06 is 22”, occasionally 24” and less common, but not rare 20”. .308 is most commonly offered in 20”. Anyway, there is clearly a correlation. Since the .338-06 ratio is lower than .308 win and 20” barrel is most common for .308 but not .30-06, I’d expect .338-06 to be happier in a 20” barrel than .30-06 would be.
Click to expand...

It will be better by a little bit, but I checked 6 powders from H4895 to H4831 in Gordon's and going 24" to 20" lost an average of 110 fps with the .30-06, and 93 fps with the .338-06. Not a huge difference, not worth worrying about.
 
This thread is getting a little long in the tooth but I wanted to throw my 2 cents worth in. Either the 30-06 or 338-06 will do fine for your build. You are not going to get top velocity out of either and muzzle blast is going to be harsh. I build my version in 9.3x62 and honestly it has been the most versatile rifle in my battery. Bullet weights from 232 all the way up to 320. Down load it for deer or go for broke and you are legal for dangerous game. Mine has taken game from whitetail all the way up to cape Buffalo
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

BigBore44
  • Locked
338 WinMag vs 30-06....?
2 3 4
Replies
80
Views
15K
BigBore44
BigBore44
LRDGCO
  • Locked
338-06 vs 35 Whelen
2 3
Replies
51
Views
12K
ExAgoradzo
ExAgoradzo
A
  • Locked
338-06 or 338 Win Mag
Replies
22
Views
6K
hardluk1
H
N
  • Locked
.338-06 vs .35 Whelen
Replies
15
Views
5K
cratz2
C
S
  • Locked
338-06 vs. 35 Whelen...what's you take??
Replies
11
Views
3K
Palehorseman
P
Back
Top