What do you prefer for long distance bench shooting. Bipod or Bag.

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At least as of 2019:

Rifle-Bipod.png

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2019/02/10/rifle-bipod-tripod/

I have Atlas, Harris and one Magpul. I'd imagine that the Harris is up there in competitions due to the speed of deployment, where it matters on the clock. When shooting from a bench I usually use what ever the rifles going to be used with for "real". My hunting rifles get shot off a rest, my varmint and get guns do load development, zeroing etc, off a bipod with a rear bag.

Other than load development and zeroing I really don't do much shooting from a bench anyway.

As for cleaning, each rifle/barrel seems to be an individual. I normally don't clean the TGT guns for a hundred or two hundred round. hunting rifles may go to 100 while practicing. They normally get cleaned twice a year; once before the hunting season starts, then fouled by checking zero, then hunting, then cleaned post season.
 
South Prairie Jim said:
My bi pod guns are only around 7 -8 pounds compared to the heavy rigs y’all have, do you feel that plays a part? I’m leaning towards spikes for field use.
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Yes, with all bipods. Spikes are only for when rubber feet won’t grip an uneven surface well imho. Bench? No need for them. I quit “loading up” a bipod fairly early in my learning curve with bipods.

My buddy uses a Harris in PRS matches, says he likes how fast it is to deploy, and it is that. I have never shot groups (that I can remember), with a Harris, but have shot plenty of small ones with my Atlas once I learned how to shoot off of a bipod, and then again with a bipod and soft rear bag.

Yes, weight helps shoot small, period. Light Varmint and Heavy Varmint classes in registered Benchrest matches differed only by the weight allowed. 11.5 vs 13.5 lbs.
 
South Prairie Jim said:
My bi pod guns are only around 7 -8 pounds compared to the heavy rigs y’all have, do you feel that plays a part? I’m leaning towards spikes for field use.
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I have spikes, but rarely use them. As the others said, I'm not big on loading the bipod.

I've got a set for my tripod that I'm going to at least try, but so far I've only used the rubber feet. I am practicing with loading the tripod, when clamped in (or on) as a little pressure works well for steadying. I'm having a swiss ARCA plate mounted to one of my hunting rifles (all up 8LBs) now to practice with. IF it works I'll go ahead and mod a couple more of my longer range hunting rifles.
 
Two pro shooters borrowed my bipod this weekend for two different stages during a PRS match, because they had spike feet, and needed rubber to shoot off of the metal surfaces we were on. Rubber feet worked all weekend for every stage… so… the benefit is…?
 
When I was shooting F class I never used a rear bag and seldom had an issue. Don't load the bipod. I had little skies on the feet. The main thing is consistency. You got this man
 
Varminterror said:
If memory serves, 7 of the 10 top PRS shooters in the world last year used Harris bipods.

“Hop” is about the shooting surface and the stock fit far more than about the bipod brand.
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The Harris's legs are sprung in place with the springs that "hold them open" for lack of a better term. Hence, the hop. There are bipod designs that don't do that because they have some play fore/aft in the legs. The last time I saw data on the precision rifle blog (Cal Zant) about bipods was 2019 and even then, more of the top 10 used the Atlas vs. the Harris.
 
Zak Smith said:
The Harris's legs are sprung in place with the springs that "hold them open" for lack of a better term. Hence, the hop.
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Guys keep saying that, but folks putting a few thousand rounds per year SHOOTING FROM THEM will prove out that hop has far more to do with the surface than this imaginary spring loading. The Harris legs cam over backwards against solid stops - the springs keep the legs pulled against the stops on the backside of the axis, so there is absolutely no spring loading of the legs when deployed. They actually have a more solid position than the other “detent deploy” models like the atlas pods.

Cal’s latest WTPU chart is 2 years old, and it does show 1 more Atlas in the top 10 than Harrises. Looking at those same 10 shooters this season, however, 6 of them are shooting Harris bipods, 2 are still shooting Atlas pods, and 2 Cyke pods - so even guys which were shooting Atlas pods 2 years ago have changed over (or Cal got his data incorrect when he listed 5 Atlas and 4 Harris at the 2019 finale). There were 5 Harrises in the 2020 Finale top 10, to only 1 Atlas. At the 2021 Finale (which I referenced, but was mistaken, there were only 5 Harrises, not 7), 5 of the top 10 at the PRS Finale last year used Harris pods (Orgain, Preston, Voges, Blackketter, and Streater), 3 Cyke-pods (King, Sanoski, and Millard, one guy with a TBAC (Buschman), and the last ONE shooter in the top 10 used an Atlas (Voges).

Harris pods work.

Admittedly, I prefer smooth-leg Harris pods, while most PRS shooters tend to use notched leg models, but Atlas has lost a lot of favor, Cyke pods picked up a TON of favor.

At the Pro Series match I shot this weekend, only 3 of the top 10 used Atlas (kinda stinks, since it was a BT Ind title sponsored match, and Atlas is a Kansas brand and this was a match in Kansas), one TBAC, and 6 shooters used Harris bipods.
 
You say solid legs like it's a good thing. It's a mistaken idea, like the idea that the cant position should be "locked."

Tons of people shoot Remingtons too. Doesn't mean it doesn't have flaws and that there aren't much better rifles.

For an example of a very good field bipod, look at the old AI/Parker-hale bipod.
 
Zak Smith said:
Tons of people shoot Remingtons too. Doesn't mean it doesn't have flaws and that there aren't much better rifles.
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No one has taken a Rem 700 to the PRS finale in the last 5 seasons in Open class, BECAUSE they have significant flaws and BECAUSE there are much better rifles (actions) available. This is a poor straw man here.

The reality is that Harris bipods work exceptionally well, even in the most challenging of testing grounds.
 
A significant reason that "loading the rifle" had become such a thing is that people had to, to prevent hop with Harris bipods. It's not necessary to the same degree when using a bipod that has more natural flex or motion. It's not the only reason for it of course, but a significant reason. Rigid bipods cause more hop, all other things equal. Furthermore, some basic operations are dramatically easier with other bipods vs. the Harris, such as raising the bipod legs one handed while maintaining a firing grip on the rifle. Way easier and faster on the AI/PH style.
 
Start with your bipod tall instead of short, and adjusting with a Harris is just as fast. Guys do it every. single. weekend…
 
Zak Smith said:
Sounds like a workaround for a problem that doesn't need to exist.
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Same exact “work around” you’re using with any other bipod, just moving the opposite direction, but letting the weight of the rifle do the work, instead of lifting it on the clock from a disadvantaged leverage position.
 
MR WICK said:
I'm on the fence here. Ever since I started shooting at 500 plus yards my shots are becoming less accurate. I'm using a Harris Bipod on my Momentum 223. A fellow shooter told me to try a bag.

Thoughts and Experiences.

Thanks.
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Mr. Wick,
I am not a pro-shooter of any kind or an expert, so my opinion is based on what I do at the local range where I engage steel targets for fun and to learn while having fun.
With the disclaimer out of the way, I usually fire from a bench rest supporting my weapon with an Atlas bipod, and if the wind is 15+ MPH I use a small home-made rear bag to engage steel from 500yds to around 800yds with much success. The range goes up to 1000Yds.
Now, there are other variables that I take in consideration while at the range. One of those considerations is a level on the scope to avoid to cant the weapon to either side. The bipod allows me to lock the bubble centered or level, and that takes care of the guess work. If the weapon is canted, for sure I would blame a missed shot on the wind. I also recently incorporated a wind meter to help out when the wind is running wild.
Are you shooting for precision?
I shoot to score hits.

Have fun out there.
 
Zak Smith said:
You say solid legs like it's a good thing. It's a mistaken idea, like the idea that the cant position should be "locked."

Tons of people shoot Remingtons too. Doesn't mean it doesn't have flaws and that there aren't much better rifles.

For an example of a very good field bipod, look at the old AI/Parker-hale bipod.
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Zak Smith,
So, how is the cant should be if not locked?
I thought that if shooting form a fixed position, the cant should be locked and adjusted as the shooter changes positions, at least that is how I do it, but if it is a mistake, explain why. I am always learning, or at least, I attempt to.
BTW, I shoot a .243 Rem 700 just because I have it and I do not compete in matches, but I would not hesitate to if I had to.
 
Tinker-S said:
how is the cant should be if not locked?
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I run my cant somewhere between just loose enough that I can shift with minimal intentional influence and just tight enough that the weight of the rifle itself will not shift on its own. I don’t lock my cant.
 
my opinion on a couple of these topics...

time between cleaning:
let the rifle tell you. i shot CMP/NRA HP and would clean in the winter, and then run 3 matches per month until camp perry in July/august, then clean it again. I shot out more than 11 barrels of 260AI and for the most part, cleaned after every shot for the first 3-5 rounds and then didn't clean again until it started opening up, usually somewhere around 1100-1300 rounds, then i'd scrub the crap out of it. I'd get up to 1600-1800 total out of the barrel. however, when i switched to 6.5x47L, i can't go more than about 400 rounds before it really opens up. quick clean and groups are right back where i expect, so i clean between matches with it. i don't remember how many barrels of 6.5x47 i've shot out, 3 or 4. but they've all been the same.


bipods and loading
there are different styles of shooting and each have their appropriate uses. for PRS competition, where people are running 6BR based cartridges out of 25 lb rifles with brakes, free recoil makes a lot of sense, and minimal shoulder input is preferred. for more tactical stuff, shooting something with some energy out of a gun you carry in the field with 60 lbs of non-shooting related other gear, as far as i know, the preferred technique is still putting your shoulder into it and having a solid grip. shooting that style well requires a lot of old school marksmanship, whereas just about anyone can balance their rifle on a game changer bag and pinch the trigger without even touching the gun with their shoulder. the key though, is managing recoil so you can catch your trace and impact. which way you choose to skin that cat is up to you

in any event, i think harris is good for some things, but i HATE shooting them on concrete. generally when i have to shoot them on concrete at a range, i'll slide forward a bit and put the legs in the dirt, even if it means extending them 4". i also hate shooting them off the hoods or roofs of cars, and will instead just fold them up and stick my bag under the rifle. i mostly run atlas and cykepod. always wanted to try zak's TBAC bipod though. I've heard it's excellent.

a major difference in the bipods is how easy it is to flip the harris legs down and back up, compared to atlas. however, with the move to swiss arca rails, people with short arms can now slide the atlas a bit farther back so they can reach it if they need to manipulate the legs faster.
the downside to the harris legs is when you go to pull your gun back and move, the legs start to collapse and if you're not paying attention, you can dip your muzzle into the dirt.
 
Varminterror said:
Same exact “work around” you’re using with any other bipod, just moving the opposite direction, but letting the weight of the rifle do the work, instead of lifting it on the clock from a disadvantaged leverage position.
Click to expand...
That's not how the good ones work.

Why would I walk around with a bipod in the fully extended position anyway?
 
Tinker-S said:
Zak Smith,
So, how is the cant should be if not locked?
I thought that if shooting form a fixed position, the cant should be locked and adjusted as the shooter changes positions, at least that is how I do it, but if it is a mistake, explain why. I am always learning, or at least, I attempt to.
BTW, I shoot a .243 Rem 700 just because I have it and I do not compete in matches, but I would not hesitate to if I had to.
Click to expand...
If the bipod is fully rigid in either the long axis (cant) or the legs (forward/backward motion), then several things happen: (1) any small adjustment to the position required means you are either trying to tension the rifle over that rigidity (or if the pod lock is set very tight but not fully locked this is still true), or you have to loosen and then reset it, and (2) under recoil, the whole rifle system (look at the bipod feet as a contact point), either slides or hops, meaning that either through recoil if you are tracking the whole time, or when you get back on target, you will now be off target. A little bit of play and good rifle fit will allow the system to move enough in a recoverable way, without the contact points moving. Take leveling the rifle as an example, in a field position, it is very likely that you'll get into a position that is not flat. At this point you need to do final POA adjustments and level the rifle, if the pod lock is locked or even just tight, you will be fighting the gun to keep its cant correct. It's better, ie less tension in the shooting position, to have it looser.
 
My Dad and I did quite a lot of shooting between 300-1000 yards for a number of years. Our best results were with a good front bipod and a shapeable rear bag. For me it was a must to be able to either front or rear load the bipod. Effective 3-4 port side muzzle brakes and heavier guns are a help as well.
 
I don't compete (yet) but enjoy shooting at distance. I shoot off a rest and bags from a bench, Harris bipod and rear bag from prone. Sometimes just rest the gun on a backpack.
 
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