Do you consider where/how you sit in a restaurant while carrying
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The Night Rider
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Maybe
fastbolt
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These are old school officer safety concepts. Probably been around since people were carrying pointy things. Handy when it comes to recognizing positions of advantage & disadvantage in social environments, and learning to avoid giving off any signals that might be disadvantageous to oneself, while seeing it happen from others.
DeepSouth
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I prefer back to the wall, and where I can see the door.
However, if I’m in a restaurant I’m nearly always with a group (usually family) and I just go along to get along. On the very rare occasion it’s just me and the wife, my back is to the wall and I can see the door.
However, if I’m in a restaurant I’m nearly always with a group (usually family) and I just go along to get along. On the very rare occasion it’s just me and the wife, my back is to the wall and I can see the door.
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theotherwaldo
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It doesn't matter where you sit if you're not paying attention... .
Very true, and no one can pay attention 100% of the time.
OneFreeTexan
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I have coffee or lunch with friends, and some of them, their eyes never stop roving, in the place and out thru the windows…..they notice everything! One of them is so proud of his record of never letting a pretty girl go by un-appreciated.
Except when they do not notice something. That's reality.
One other thing--when someone's eyes "never stop roving", someone is likely to think they are about to commit a crime.
fastbolt
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Indeed. Also, the type of continual 'look directly at everyone' eye contact ... usually developed among cops ... can attract attention on its own, as it can make others uncomfortable, or even nervous. It's a subtle skill to learn to be able to look around your immediate environment and remain aware of things, without it being obvious to everyone else. It can also risk identifying you as someone 'of interest' to other folks who might be potential threats (criminals), or even just nuisances (dopers, panhandlers, etc). Just depends how 'visible' you wish to make yourself.
Being able to 'see first' without being seen is a subtle skillset.
Going to the effort of remaining continually aware of your environment can be tiring, too. That's why I like to use my retired cop friend as a coal mine canary, because it's easier to watch him during conversations than to have to watch everything else, myself.
I have noticed that that is a common trait among police officers, and it's proper for them.
It is also something that people who practice situational awareness should notice in civilians. Are they casing the joint, looking for victims, looking for witnesses, or waiting for an opportune moment to strike, or are the innocently looking for a family member or friend? Or do they somehow believe that they themselves are "practicing situational awareness" and trying to keep themselves in "Condition Yellow"?
OneFreeTexan
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Goodness, you guys certainly know how to misread a post, and twist it for your own benefit.
Most people listen(or read) to respond, not to understand.
Most people listen(or read) to respond, not to understand.
What was it that you meant?
The Night Rider
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Truth
I have not eaten at an indoor establishment since some time before the Covid lockdown. Regarding the subject at hand, I had come to the conclusion that there was little I could do by seat selection that would provide a material advantage in the event of a criminal act.. I realized that the time spent in looking at the menu. cutting food, and conversing with table-mates made the idea of full awareness an unrealistic one.
I also concluded that we were most vulnerable to ambush while walking out to the car.
More recently, we have been patronizing an outdoor restaurant, with better air circulation and with no masking requirement. It is not located along a sidewalk.
However, motorists passing on the road can see the patrons, and there is at least a slight possibility that one with a bad intentions might stop and turn in. Their approach would be noticeable to anyone who does not have his back to the building. I' ll take that into account--after ensuring that I will not be sitting with the sun in my eyes.
I avoid places in which patrons sit in close proximity to passers-by on the sidewalk.
I also concluded that we were most vulnerable to ambush while walking out to the car.
More recently, we have been patronizing an outdoor restaurant, with better air circulation and with no masking requirement. It is not located along a sidewalk.
However, motorists passing on the road can see the patrons, and there is at least a slight possibility that one with a bad intentions might stop and turn in. Their approach would be noticeable to anyone who does not have his back to the building. I' ll take that into account--after ensuring that I will not be sitting with the sun in my eyes.
I avoid places in which patrons sit in close proximity to passers-by on the sidewalk.
Scrapiron45
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For me, it seems most of the restaurants I visit allow a poor view of the front door from the majority of the seating area. Usually there are fire exits visible when I go in and I'll request to sit near one of them if possible, if not I'll usually ask for seats in a quiet area with the intention of being just a little farther away from the main crowd, the idea being to give myself every possible second to react and form a plan to deal with the situation demanding my attention. I am definitely more comfortable with my back to the wall and a view of the parking lot.
fastbolt
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Another nuance to the steady and willing eye contact subject is that cops (and some other folks who assess people for a living) learn how to do it so it isn't intimidating ... unless it needs to be.
Stevie-Ray
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Always. Been carrying for 20 years. Seating seems not quite as important now, in this location, as it was in the Detroit area, but doubtful I'll ever change.
It can be really weird to talk with someone who's head and eyes are always moving. The fact is the world is full of sketchy looking people and most of them are never going to try to victimize someone outside of their little world and even if they were, it's exhausting to keep watching them all the time. If something enters my bubble I'll be awar
Cops are great at doing this on the job but often struggle at home for not "turning it off".
Cops are great at doing this on the job but often struggle at home for not "turning it off".
fastbolt
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Not all cops are necessarily great at this, on or off the clock.
Depends on the cop and his/her training, and how they learned to apply that training, including outside of work hours. The rookie years - think first 5 years - can be tough, which is why it's not unusual for the 5 year point to become where some cops decide that the profession actually isn't for them. (This can become the difference between a 'former' cop and a retired cop, when listening to some folks tell how they spent time in LE.
Some stick around for a minute, but then later claim experience and knowledge as if they'd spent a career in the job.)The work environment can have a lot to do with it, as well, as not all places result in the same amount of experience and valuable experiential knowledge being acquired in the same amount of time. A couple years in Snake Navel or Mayberry won't produce the same kind of cop as a couple years working Rampart in LA.
Then, there's always 'that guy' who manages to stay on for 10, 15, or 20+ years, but seems to just repeat the first year's worth of learning and development, basically just repeating it each year throughout his career.
Mentoring can help, as can CIT/Peer Counseling programs, but not everywhere has the people resources and the money (or interest?) to implement them and monitor their success, to make sure they're working for their staff.
Good put, FB.
There are also civilians who have availed themselves of no relevant training at all, who head out and try to practice what they believe to be "situational awareness."
Missing important things is but one risk. Another is inadvertently setting off a person who would not otherwise be inclined to cause trouble.
This applies anywhere--not just in restaurants.
We all need ro be careful about our gaze and our expressions.
There are also civilians who have availed themselves of no relevant training at all, who head out and try to practice what they believe to be "situational awareness."
Missing important things is but one risk. Another is inadvertently setting off a person who would not otherwise be inclined to cause trouble.
This applies anywhere--not just in restaurants.
We all need ro be careful about our gaze and our expressions.
fastbolt
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Yep. The last thing any of us need is to run across someone looking to have their short fuse lit, who sees us looking at him, and then loudly demands, "You looking at me!?!"
herrwalther
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Interesting. But when Mr Pincus and I go for drinks at the little bar we know, he sits with his back to the wall. And away from the restroom. Maybe it is a tactical choice. Maybe he just likes that booth. If I remember to I will ask next time we see each other.
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