looks like sig will be building the next army rifle

greyling22 said:

I'm not opposed to a new rifle, but as a taxpayer, I'm underwhelmed.

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22 minutes and I can’t come up with one agency, that has a .gov email, that has really impressed me.

I don't look for the military to change from the M4 and the 5.56 cartridge for general use anytime soon. If I understand correctly this meant to be issued in limited numbers for some SF units or as a designated marksman rifle in others. Some M14's were pulled out of mothballs and upgraded to fill this role a few years ago.

Waste of money. Nothing at all wrong with what we are using now. Whole lotta infrastructure in place to support it.

All this is doing is upsetting the apple cart...for what? A very marginal improvement? It even debatable that its any improvement.

The ammo..hybrid, steel head, brass body? That just sounds way to complex..and of coarse expensive...again? for what and why?

After seeing for real what we are up against (Russian fiasco in Ukraine), it seems damn clear to me..what we got will do more than just do the job...and will do it for a very long time. China ain't even close to Russia...so again...why are they doing this?

If they were making a giant leap in technology, like an M41a pulse rifle, or a phase plasma rifle in the 40 watt range...then it would maybe be worth it..
But this? Its only a new version of the wheel. Not even close to worth all the costs.

I totally dont see those backwards magazine baseplates popping off when they hit something hard on the move. Totally.

Megawatt maker said:

That just sounds way to complex..and of coarse expensive...again? for what and why

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Necessary for the high chamber pressures, to prevent case head blowout.

NIGHTLORD40K said:

Necessary for the high chamber pressures, to prevent case head blowout.

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Ok. Still not seeing how its worth it. And why not simply make the entire case out if steel?

If there a good reason..fine, but it just looks to me like the old saying from the civil war.."You can sell the government anything, at any price, if you got the guts to ask"....

I’m in favor of going to a larger, heavier projectile, if that takes a different rifle so be it. Seems to me a larger heavier projectile would be more effective in close to medium ranges.

That said, I’m aware that I know nothing about what I’m talking about. I have zero military experience and I’m the last guy they need to be taking advice from.

When can I get a surplus one?

jmr40 said:

I don't look for the military to change from the M4 and the 5.56 cartridge for general use anytime soon. If I understand correctly this meant to be issued in limited numbers for some SF units or as a designated marksman rifle in others. Some M14's were pulled out of mothballs and upgraded to fill this role a few years ago.

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Army Chooses New Rifle for Combat Troops

Army Picks Its Replacement for the M4 and SAW

"The service will also switch from 5.56mm ammo to 6.8mm, after a search for rounds better built to penetrate body armor."

Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth from the 5.56 lovers begin!

35W

Holy GIANT hand guard on those things!! That thing already DOES resemble the M41 Pulse Rifle… the huge handguard anyway.

I can't fault the military for wanting a cartridge with more reach and punch than the 5.56, but I've been surprised that they went as large as .277/6.8mm. I figured 6.3mm or 6.5mm would be the top end practical size, unless they don't really care about accurate select-fire. Based on the specs I found online, they're claiming 135gr bullet at 3000+fps. That's approximately 270 Win ballistics -- proven long-range performance, but it's rather more powerful than the typical assault rifle cartridge.

Huge waste of money.

David Hoback said:

Holy GIANT hand guard on those things!! That thing already DOES resemble the M41 Pulse Rifle… the huge handguard anyway.

View attachment 1073639

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That is butt ugly.

Something interesting occurred to me.
Unless I’m mistaken, and I may very well be, this is the first time the us military has gone to a larger caliber for the average soldier.

Went something like
.58 cal
.50 cal
.45 cal
.30 cal
.22 cal
Now back up to 6.8 / .277 cal

Again, I could easily be wrong, also seems like their was a larger one in the beginning. I may be thinking of the Brown Bess which was a 75 cal (I think) but I’m not sure it was used in US military applications. The further back I go the less sure I am.

DeepSouth said:

Something interesting occurred to me.
Unless I’m mistaken, and I may very well be, this is the first time the us military has gone to a larger caliber for the average soldier.

Went something like
.58 cal
.50 cal
.45 cal
.30 cal
.22 cal
Now back up to 6.8 / .277 cal

Again, I could easily be wrong, also seems like their was a larger one in the beginning. I may be thinking of the Brown Bess which was a 75 cal (I think) but I’m not sure it was used in US military applications. The further back I go the less sure I am.

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And in the future they will go back up to .75!

They can carry 50% as much ammo, and the magazines hold 20 rounds each. But now they can suppress enemies out to over 1000m. A worthy trade!

"... the 6.8mm HVAP could be just a rumor, and the 7.62mm LSC could be a stillborn companion to the now dead ICSR program.

At the same time, it does seem likely that such a caliber is in the pipeline for NGSAR. CSA Milley’s promises of a “10x improvement” in small arms, the “1200m” suppression requirement, and other smells in the air seem to indicate a weapon designed for an extremely long effective range. Such a weapon would almost certainly be paired with a caliber of equal capability, which is likely to be some kind of high velocity intermediate.

If this proves true, well… Then the Army hasn’t learned a thing from ICSR. It seems concerns about ammunition weight, recoil, and other factors with 7.62mm weapons have simply bounced off, and instead the Army decided the problem with ICSR was that it simply wasn’t ambitious enough.

We all know how that has worked out in the past."

Mycin said:

I can't fault the military for wanting a cartridge with more reach and punch than the 5.56, but I've been surprised that they went as large as .277/6.8mm. I figured 6.3mm or 6.5mm would be the top end practical size, unless they don't really care about accurate select-fire. Based on the specs I found online, they're claiming 135gr bullet at 3000+fps. That's approximately 270 Win ballistics -- proven long-range performance, but it's rather more powerful than the typical assault rifle cartridge.

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Yes, that’s it. Called the 277 Sig “Fury”. LOL! (Honestly. Could they think of a more ridiculous name!?) steel base with brass body. And 80,000PSI?? Holy Moses! To push a 135gr .277” pill(So we’re not talking the best BC here.), 3000fps+. Like was said above, 270 Win ballistics. Oh, but at 80,000psi! So, if something let’s go, someone is getting hurt, bad!

In a similar vein, saw an article in which it was stated that the Air force is deploying a new sniper system. Originally designed for the Army. H&K, 7.62 semi auto. Intended for precision shooting and overwatch missions. I knew there was a reason I liked the M-14!

I believe that this is for a squad weapon. The current SAW works on some things, but is poor on others. Many years ago when my team needed more firepower I carried the M-60 "Pig", and my experience is that the larger cartridge did things that the 556 did not. I believe that we need a squad weapon with more punch than the standard rifle.

Great description of the rifle and ammo:

Yeah, but I want something from the Real Sig, Sig Saur AG Switzerland:
https://www.sigsauer.swiss/en/index.php

Remember this is a contract for XM designated (experimental) weapon (XM5 for the rifle XM250 for the belt fed). Sig won the design contest but this is still far FAR from a fielded system. This contract is for a number of experimentally designated rifles and machineguns for the Army to do more in-depth and extensive testing. Some of this testing later in the program could include limited actual field use but it will still not be a fielded system. These rifle could languish in this status for years or longer. It might be accepted as designed if the testing goes exceptionally well and it might get kicked back to Sig to fix things if it goes good but they find deficiencies. And as is more often the case the Army will simply play with them for awhile and then drop the program completely.

Oh of course. Just like the Marines contract going to H&K for the M27 in 2018. They haven’t even supplied ALL of the Corps with M27’s, and they are already looking to convert to the FAT Sig rifle. NO! I don’t mean “Pretty Hot And Tempting” (PHAT), I mean, like the ugly FAT Chick you dated in high school. That’s the Sig. PORKLY in all the wrong places!

Megawatt maker said:

The ammo..hybrid, steel head, brass body? That just sounds way to complex..and of coarse expensive...again? for what and why?



If they were making a giant leap in technology, like an M41a pulse rifle, or a phase plasma rifle in the 40 watt range...then it would maybe be worth it..
But this? Its only a new version of the wheel. Not even close to worth all the costs.

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As a reloader, I'm very curious about these cases. The cartridge is loaded to 80,000 psi. That isn't a phase plasma rifle in the 40 watt range but it is undeniably a significant advancement in small arms. I anticipate problems with this round but I think we will all benefit from the technology that is developed to make this new cartridge work. The case is allegedly reloadable and, as far as I know, the law is still on the books that the military has to sell their used brass on the civilian market so, I'm curious to see where this all goes. I won't be recycling all my 5.56 and 7.62 cases but I'll give this round a chance.