California gun registration questions

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Sanderguy777

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Curious about whether all guns have to be registered with the state in 2022. Is it OK if they're just registered with the feds?

Also, how do you register one that was gifted or bought off a relative or something? I have a buddy that has some he's trying to sell.

How do you register guns, and is there legal issues if you haven't already done it by the time you lived in the state for a few years?
 
Welcome to THR.

From State of California Department of Justice FAQ page - https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs#25

26. How do I know if my firearms need to be registered?

There is no firearm registration requirement in California except for assault weapon owners and personal handgun importers. However, you must submit a Firearm Ownership Report (FOR) Application (BOF 4542A), pdf to the California Department of Justice (the Department) for any firearm you are seeking return where no other record is on file with the Department identifying you as the most recent owner/possessor. Having a FOR application on file with the Department will authorize the return of your firearm in the event it is subsequently lost or stolen. With very few and specific exceptions, all firearm transactions must be conducted through a firearms dealer. If you purchased a handgun from a properly licensed California firearms dealer and underwent a background check via the state’s Dealer’s Record of Sale (DROS) process, a record of your handgun purchase is already on file with the Department. Therefore, it should not be necessary for you to submit a FOR application for handguns previously purchased in California. Unfortunately, this is not the case with regards to rifles or shotguns. Prior to January 1, 2014, the Department was prohibited by law from retaining DROS long gun information.


25. I am moving into California and I own several firearms. What are the new-resident registration requirements? ​

You are considered a personal firearm importer as defined by California law. You may bring all of your California-legal firearms with you, but you must report them all to the California Department of Justice within 60 days as required utilizing the New Resident Firearm Ownership Report (BOF 4010A), pdf. You may not bring ammunition feeding devices with a capacity greater than ten rounds, machine guns, or assault weapons into California.​
 
Sanderguy777 said:
Curious about whether all guns have to be registered with the state in 2022. Is it OK if they're just registered with the feds?

Also, how do you register one that was gifted or bought off a relative or something? I have a buddy that has some he's trying to sell.

How do you register guns, and is there legal issues if you haven't already done it by the time you lived in the state for a few years?
Click to expand...

You open up a "Hornet's Nest" with your question. Good first posting.

First off, you gotta specify what type of "Registration" you're talking about. California has separate forms of gun registration for Assault Weapons, .50 BMG Rifles and for other firearms. The "Assault Weapon" registration system actually has three separate categories within it. Registering a weapon in one of the systems does not satisfy the requirements if the particular weapon is required to be registered in another category. This commonly "Bites" folks who have a "Registered" firearm that is configured as an "Assault Weapon", or who have an "Assault Weapon" that was registered with a "Bullet Button" device and who later remove the Bullet Button.

So long as the weapon is not an NFA weapon, a California-defined "Assault Weapon", or a .50 BMG Rifle, there is no requirement that the weapon be registered with the state.

However if there is the potential for one to be arrested for Carrying a Loaded Firearm, or for Carrying a Concealed Firearm, it may be advantageous to have the firearm registered. A first-time, non-aggravated, offense is a felony if the weapon is not registered, and only a misdemeanor if the weapon is registered to the defendant.

With few exceptions, the transfer of any firearm in California must occur through a California licensed dealer. They will submit the required documents to register the weapon upon the transfer. The few exceptions require the submission of the DOJ "Operation of Law" transfer report.

A person who simply possesses an unregistered firearm may voluntarily register it with the DOJ, but they are not required to.
 
RickD427 said:
You open up a "Hornet's Nest" with your question. Good first posting.

First off, you gotta specify what type of "Registration" you're talking about. California has separate forms of gun registration for Assault Weapons, .50 BMG Rifles and for other firearms. The "Assault Weapon" registration system actually has three separate categories within it. Registering a weapon in one of the systems does not satisfy the requirements if the particular weapon is required to be registered in another category. This commonly "Bites" folks who have a "Registered" firearm that is configured as an "Assault Weapon", or who have an "Assault Weapon" that was registered with a "Bullet Button" device and who later remove the Bullet Button.

So long as the weapon is not an NFA weapon, a California-defined "Assault Weapon", or a .50 BMG Rifle, there is no requirement that the weapon be registered with the state.

However if there is the potential for one to be arrested for Carrying a Loaded Firearm, or for Carrying a Concealed Firearm, it may be advantageous to have the firearm registered. A first-time, non-aggravated, offense is a felony if the weapon is not registered, and only a misdemeanor if the weapon is registered to the defendant.

With few exceptions, the transfer of any firearm in California must occur through a California licensed dealer. They will submit the required documents to register the weapon upon the transfer. The few exceptions require the submission of the DOJ "Operation of Law" transfer report.

A person who simply possesses an unregistered firearm may voluntarily register it with the DOJ, but they are not required to.
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Ok, so how do I go about getting them legal without going to jail? I don't have anything but old long guns (basic "rifle" and shotgun designs. no pistol grips, no fancy buttons, or anything. in fact, none even have removable magazines!)


And how would someone sell a firearm if they wanted to? Do they consign it at Sportsman's and then sportsman's "sells" it to me?

Also, its well past 60 days, so now what?
 
Sanderguy777 said:
Ok, so how do I go about getting them legal without going to jail? I don't have anything but old long guns (basic "rifle" and shotgun designs. no pistol grips, no fancy buttons, or anything. in fact, none even have removable magazines!)


And how would someone sell a firearm if they wanted to? Do they consign it at Sportsman's and then sportsman's "sells" it to me?

Also, its well past 60 days, so now what?
Click to expand...

If you are a new resident to the state of California, you fill out a copy of the "New Resident Report Form" and pay a $19.00 fee for all of the weapons you list on the report. The report is required to be done within 60 days of becoming a new resident, but the law prevents you from being prosecuted for being late if the only reason DOJ learns of the late violation is from your report. I'm not aware of any cases where late reporters have been fanged for being late.

Here is a link to the form: https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/ab991frm.pdf

You can sell a firearm by placing it on consignment as you describe. You can also locate a buyer on your own, and then you both go to a licensed dealer to do "Private Party Transfer." California law requires dealers to process PPT transfers on the same basis as they do their own sales. But realistically, plan on being as welcome as the plague when you try do one.
 
RickD427 said:
If you are a new resident to the state of California, you fill out a copy of the "New Resident Report Form" and pay a $19.00 fee for all of the weapons you list on the report. The report is required to be done within 60 days of becoming a new resident, but the law prevents you from being prosecuted for being late if the only reason DOJ learns of the late violation is from your report. I'm not aware of any cases where late reporters have been fanged for being late.

Here is a link to the form: https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/ab991frm.pdf

You can sell a firearm by placing it on consignment as you describe. You can also locate a buyer on your own, and then you both go to a licensed dealer to do "Private Party Transfer." California law requires dealers to process PPT transfers on the same basis as they do their own sales. But realistically, plan on being as welcome as the plague when you try do one.
Click to expand...


Good to know. That's $20 per firearm, right?

And, yeah, I can imagine they'd LOVE that. Would they usually ask for a tip or something? And where would be a good place to try to do it at if I did want to?
 
Sanderguy777 said:
Good to know. That's $20 per firearm, right?

And, yeah, I can imagine they'd LOVE that. Would they usually ask for a tip or something? And where would be a good place to try to do it at if I did want to?
Click to expand...

Nope, it's $19.00 total for as many firearms as you list. You can register your entire arsenal for $19.00.

I don't have any good recommendations for PPT's. I fled from California right after I retired in 2013. But it's a big state and I don't know where you're at. Calguns.net is an excellent resource for current info.
 
RickD427 said:
Nope, it's $19.00 total for as many firearms as you list. You can register your entire arsenal for $19.00.

I don't have any good recommendations for PPT's. I fled from California right after I retired in 2013. But it's a big state and I don't know where you're at. Calguns.net is an excellent resource for current info.
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Ok, cool! Thanks. I can ask the local shop about the ppt if I decide to.
 
Just curious, do the guns have to be on the Ca. approved list in order to be brought in by a new resident? From the FAQ above it’s not clear.

If not, can these not on the list be sold later?
 
gbw said:
Just curious, do the guns have to be on the Ca. approved list in order to be brought in by a new resident? From the FAQ above it’s not clear.

If not, can these not on the list be sold later?
Click to expand...
You might want to join the CALGUNS forum and ask there, they will be more "subject matter experts."

It's my understanding that anything "in" CA has to be CA-legal (or was in CA before the law changed). Anything not on the list is contraband (IIRC) and must needs be removed from the State, or surrendered to LE; or destroyed.

CA, from my reading, has, rather deliberately, made this complicated and unfriendly.

Please note, too--there is no US Federal registration of not Title II NFA firearms. Except on TV.
 
gbw said:
Just curious, do the guns have to be on the Ca. approved list in order to be brought in by a new resident? From the FAQ above it’s not clear.

If not, can these not on the list be sold later?
Click to expand...
No, they do not need to be on roster if you move into the state with them. They do need to be otherwise compliant, as in no magazines over 10 rounds and no threaded barrels on semiautomatic pistols with removable magazines.
 
CapnMac said:
You might want to join the CALGUNS forum and ask there, they will be more "subject matter experts."

It's my understanding that anything "in" CA has to be CA-legal (or was in CA before the law changed). Anything not on the list is contraband (IIRC) and must needs be removed from the State, or surrendered to LE; or destroyed.

CA, from my reading, has, rather deliberately, made this complicated and unfriendly.

Please note, too--there is no US Federal registration of not Title II NFA firearms. Except on TV.
Click to expand...
Capt,

You're quite correct that California is very unwelcoming to gun owners. But there is a big distinction between firearms that are illegal in California, and the so-called "Safe Handgun" roster.

As a general rule, handguns that are not listed on the "Safe Handgun" roster cannot be sold, or transferred by a dealer, to private persons (there is an exemption for LEOs). That doesn't make non-listed handguns illegal, it just greatly limits the ability of Californians to acquire them.

A California resident can lawfully transfer an off-roster handgun to another California resident. The transfer must be handled by a California licensed dealer. Highly sought after off-roster handguns sell at a high premium because of this. This has also created an illegal market for such weapons. A couple of California LEOs have recently gone to state prison for buying such weapons using their special status, and then selling them through the private transfer route.

A person coming into California as a "New Resident" can lawfully import off-roster handgun that are in a California-legal configuration. If they later decide to sell those weapons, they can do so as above.

A few years back, California enacted a new statute that made it a felony for a "Returning Resident" to bring in any handgun that they lawfully acquired while outside of the state.
 
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RickD427 said:
A few years back, California enacted a new statute that made it a felony for a "Returning Resident" to bring in any handgun that they lawfully acquired while outside of the state.
Click to expand...

I don't see how anyone can legally acquire a handgun out of state, with the possible exception of inheriting one. By Federal law, you can't buy and take possession of a handgun outside your state of residence. It has to be processed by an FFL in your state. While residents of free states can buy long guns out of state at an FFL as long as the transaction is legal in BOTH states, CA residents can't even do that. CA residents have to have their background checks done by CA's DROS system, and that's not available in other states.
 
Natman,

It's actually quite easy for a California resident to lawfully acquire a handgun in a different state.

The problem with your analysis above is that you'e applying the federal definition of "state of residence" as controlling. Please note that California law defines residency quite differently from the feds and that's what creates the issue.

Under California law, a person is a California resident if the maintain a home in California, and have an intention to return when they are are away (Refer to CPC 17000). Under the federal definition, they're a resident of a state if they are present within the state and make their home in the state (refer to 27CFR478.11) or if they are military stationed in the state (refer to 18USC921). Please note that neither California, nor the feds require that a person hold a driver's license, or a state ID card from any of their states of residence.

Here's just one way that a California resident can lawfully acquire a handgun from out of state:

1) Tom enlists in the Navy, right out of high school. He keeps his room at his parent's house in California and is stationed in Florida. He declares California as his military "Home of Record" (indicating an intent to return) and keeps his California Driver's License. Tom can legally purchase a handgun in Florida (and only Florida because the federal law requires the purchase to be in the state where the federal law considers him a resident). But under California law, Tom remains a resident the whole time that he is away. The instant that Tom brings that Florida-purchased handgun into California, he has committed a felony (refer to CPC 27585 and 27590).
 
RickD427 said:
Natman,

It's actually quite easy for a California resident to lawfully acquire a handgun in a different state.

The problem with your analysis above is that you'e applying the federal definition of "state of residence" as controlling. Please note that California law defines residency quite differently from the feds and that's what creates the issue.

Under California law, a person is a California resident if the maintain a home in California, and have an intention to return when they are are away (Refer to CPC 17000). Under the federal definition, they're a resident of a state if they are present within the state and make their home in the state (refer to 27CFR478.11) or if they are military stationed in the state (refer to 18USC921). Please note that neither California, nor the feds require that a person hold a driver's license, or a state ID card from any of their states of residence.

Here's just one way that a California resident can lawfully acquire a handgun from out of state:

1) Tom enlists in the Navy, right out of high school. He keeps his room at his parent's house in California and is stationed in Florida. He declares California as his military "Home of Record" (indicating an intent to return) and keeps his California Driver's License. Tom can legally purchase a handgun in Florida (and only Florida because the federal law requires the purchase to be in the state where the federal law considers him a resident). But under California law, Tom remains a resident the whole time that he is away. The instant that Tom brings that Florida-purchased handgun into California, he has committed a felony (refer to CPC 27585 and 27590).
Click to expand...
Not that I ever plan to move BACK to CA if I move, but how would you take the handgun to another state according to fed law? Would you have to do something like declare that you have it in the new state or something?
 
Sanderguy777 said:
Ok, so how do I go about getting them legal without going to jail? I don't have anything but old long guns (basic "rifle" and shotgun designs. no pistol grips, no fancy buttons, or anything. in fact, none even have removable magazines!)


And how would someone sell a firearm if they wanted to? Do they consign it at Sportsman's and then sportsman's "sells" it to me?

Also, its well past 60 days, so now what?
Click to expand...
See that's the problem. They want to make it so difficult to be complaint and hard to understand the law that most people just will chose not to own them.
Except for criminals, who just do what they want.
 
RickD427 said:
Natman,

It's actually quite easy for a California resident to lawfully acquire a handgun in a different state.

The problem with your analysis above is that you'e applying the federal definition of "state of residence" as controlling. Please note that California law defines residency quite differently from the feds and that's what creates the issue.

Under California law, a person is a California resident if the maintain a home in California, and have an intention to return when they are are away (Refer to CPC 17000). Under the federal definition, they're a resident of a state if they are present within the state and make their home in the state (refer to 27CFR478.11) or if they are military stationed in the state (refer to 18USC921). Please note that neither California, nor the feds require that a person hold a driver's license, or a state ID card from any of their states of residence.

Here's just one way that a California resident can lawfully acquire a handgun from out of state:

1) Tom enlists in the Navy, right out of high school. He keeps his room at his parent's house in California and is stationed in Florida. He declares California as his military "Home of Record" (indicating an intent to return) and keeps his California Driver's License. Tom can legally purchase a handgun in Florida (and only Florida because the federal law requires the purchase to be in the state where the federal law considers him a resident). But under California law, Tom remains a resident the whole time that he is away. The instant that Tom brings that Florida-purchased handgun into California, he has committed a felony (refer to CPC 27585 and 27590).
Click to expand...

The difference between Federal and California definitions of residency is a good point. In this scenario Tom is still a California resident, even if he fits the Federal Florida residency requirements by being stationed there. He would have to use his military ID to satisfy the ID requirements on the form 4473, because his California DL would be an instant red flag for an FFL in another state.

All this illustrates that California's gun laws make a legal minefield for gun owners who want to own guns legally. Which is pretty much the California government's intention.
 
Sanderguy777 said:
but how would you take the handgun to another state according to fed law? Would you have to do something like declare that you have it in the new state or something?
Click to expand...
As long as it's a Title I firearm, Federal law does not care what state it's possessed within.

Where it's sold matters under 18 USC 922, but not where possessed.

Various States (and, really only a tiny minority) care, and only a minority of those require documentation.

Reiterating: There Is No Federal Registration of Title I firearms. (Except on TV)
 
Sanderguy777 said:
Not that I ever plan to move BACK to CA if I move, but how would you take the handgun to another state according to fed law? Would you have to do something like declare that you have it in the new state or something?
Click to expand...

For non-NFA weapons, there is no federal law requirement to update the federal records when the weapon is moved between states.

In the case of California state law, new residents (with the exception of active duty military) are required by state law to report their weapons.
 
natman said:
The difference between Federal and California definitions of residency is a good point. In this scenario Tom is still a California resident, even if he fits the Federal Florida residency requirements by being stationed there. He would have to use his military ID to satisfy the ID requirements on the form 4473, because his California DL would be an instant red flag for an FFL in another state.

All this illustrates that California's gun laws make a legal minefield for gun owners who want to own guns legally. Which is pretty much the California government's intention.
Click to expand...
Natman,

You are quite correct about California's laws being a "legal minefield." Judge Benetiz commented very specifically on this point in his trial court decision in Duncan v Becerra (since re-captioned as Duncan v Bonta) regarding California's large-capacity magazine statue.
 
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