Opinions: S&W 686 vs 686+

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WrongHanded said:
Is clearance between the rims of the case heads a concern at all? I thought I remembered hearing something about that in a 7 shot design at some point, but it may well have been the GP100 7 shot experiment.
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A couple of years ago I had a 7 shot GP100 and had issues with the clearance between the rims of the case heads. Ruger suggested that they swap it for a 6 round GP100 due to those issues and did so at no cost. I can't speak to S&W.
 
gotboostvr said:
The 7 shots are actually stronger. There's a negligible difference in the ratches, and by virtue of the cylinder locking notches being between the charge holes, the cylinder itself is actually stronger since the thinnest part of the cylinder on the 6 shot models is the cylinder locking notch, not between the charge holes themselves.
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I'd noticed the cylinder notch thing. I kind of figured it was offset by the cylinder walls between the chambers being thinner. But I guess that's all the steel (whatever S&W use) needed to contain .357 mag levels of pressure.
 
WrongHanded said:
I've read that in some review somewhere, and I can believe it. Though it does strike me that the teeth/gearing on the ratchet are finer, and I do wonder about how that compares to the beefier ones on the 6 shot through hard use.

The 686+ I had was used when I bought it, but had a timing issue where the cylinder did not rotate far enough to lock before the hammer fell. Or if used in SA, didn't lock when the hammer did. It went back to S&W courtesy of the LGS I bought it at, and returned in full working order. But it made me skeptical so I sent it down the road.

I'm willing to give the + another chance, I'm just not 100% convinced (yet) that it's as solid as the regular 6 shot.
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To my knowledge, there is no lock work change on a 6 shot 686 and a 7 shot 686 +. I would not have predicted that, but it seems to be the case.
 
WrongHanded said:
I'd noticed the cylinder notch thing. I kind of figured it was offset by the cylinder walls between the chambers being thinner. But I guess that's all the steel (whatever S&W use) needed to contain .357 mag levels of pressure.
Click to expand...

The carry up issues you had sound more like someone fiddled with the springs than a ratchet issue anyways
 
gotboostvr said:
The carry up issues you had sound more like someone fiddled with the springs than a ratchet issue anyways
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Interesting. I don't recalled getting an explanation as to what the issue was. So you may well be right.

Well I suppose if there were any major issues with the + version, someone would have said so by now.
 
I have the 3" 7 shooter. Works great, no complaints at all. If it develops a timing (or any other ) issue, I have a SW armourer friend who will take care of it.

Keep on keep'in on!!
 
I lost the 1998 Louisiana Gator Cup due to sending that extra round in a 50rd course of fire. Sent 51rds and 48x's at the mover. Apparently, an extra shot was worse than a complete miss. Shooter error. Loved that gun so much (top) that I went and bought another (bottom). I've had nothing but joy while shooting these. They are the most accurate "funnest" shooting pistols I've got. I've shot thousands of rounds through pythons and the S&W 686-4 (top) and 686-5 (bottom) are better. 20220426_195425.jpg
 
If the revolver is intended for self-defense, there's no denying the advantage of having an extra shot. Too, as gotboostervr pointed out, the Plus cylinder is actually stronger where it counts if "strength" is a concern. Finally, as SteadyD noted, there is no difference in the lockwork configuration between the two Smiths being compared.
 
As an L-Frame fan from waaay back, I've owned more than one of each. I experienced no down side at all to the 7-shooters. I initially had some concern about the strength, timing, etc. of the 7-shot cylinders. I now think my concern was misplaced. A 686 I've owned for several years is a +/- in that it has both 6 and 7-shot cylinders. I had the 7-shot cylinder rechambered to 9MM.
BTW, never any "rim lock", etc. with any ammunition I used in the 7-shooter 686s. 686 (17) - Copy - Copy.JPG
 
gotboostvr said:
The 7 shots are actually stronger. There's a negligible difference in the ratches, and by virtue of the cylinder locking notches being between the charge holes, the cylinder itself is actually stronger since the thinnest part of the cylinder on the 6 shot models is the cylinder locking notch, not between the charge holes themselves.
Click to expand...

SwampWolf said:
Too, as gotboostervr pointed out, the Plus cylinder is actually stronger where it counts if "strength" is a concern.
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Suppose a double charge scenario. When the cylinder unzips or comes apart, in either the 6 shot or 7 shot revolver, the failure doesn’t start at the notch. In both revolvers, the failure will start in the between-cylinder-wall-web at the corner of the extractor relief cut.

So is the 7 shot stronger? A guy would have to measure and compare the web thickness and relief cut radius between 6 and 7 shot revolvers. And do some math. More work.

Probably easier to just repeat the notch myth of the 7 shot - after all it’s an internet “truth” these days. No offense intended @SwampWolf or @gotboostvr

Both the 6 and 7 shots are typical Smiths. IMO, the highest quality for the money revolver ever made.
 
For CC or HD, seven shots of course.

For shooting at the range or hunting or plinking or whatever, it probably doesn't matter.
 
Alright! You guys have convinced me. There's no good reason not to get a 7 shot. The additional shot isn't that big of a deal to me, but if there's no downside to it, it can only be beneficial.

I'll look for one. But being as how I like to thoroughly inspect revolvers before I buy them (for fit, finish, timing, trigger quality etc.), if I show up with a regular 6 shot, don't be surprised. ;)
 
Rock185 said:
As an L-Frame fan from waaay back, I've owned more than one of each. I experienced no down side at all to the 7-shooters. I initially had some concern about the strength, timing, etc. of the 7-shot cylinders. I now think my concern was misplaced. A 686 I've owned for several years is a +/- in that it has both 6 and 7-shot cylinders. I had the 7-shot cylinder rechambered to 9MM.
BTW, never any "rim lock", etc. with any ammunition I used in the 7-shooter 686s. View attachment 1075542
Click to expand...
Moon clips too. Nice!
 
I've owned several of both the 686 and 686+ models . I can't think of any quality/ mechanical reason to chose one over the other (Ok, maybe the greater availability of speed loaders for the 6 shot)
Still, I might be showing my age but I actually greatly prefer the traditional 6 shot flavor. All my life I've conditioned myself: 6 pops, dump and reload. That 7th shot just throws my concentration off . Oddly, I have no issue with 10 round rimfire revolvers. I think maybe its because I'm conditioned with 10 round capacities in my semi auto rimfire pistols too.
All that said, the smoothest , best shooting and most accurate L frame I've ever owned is a 5" 686+ (Talo 3-5-7 edition). I love everything about the gun EXCEPT the 7 shot capacity. ( I often load it with 6) I've recently contacted Cyl and Slide to get a quote to convert it to a 6 shot. It won't be cheap but the gun is worth it!

686-plus-range-test-zpsbp2k2ypd-1.jpg
 
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The search is going poorly so far. I've been to eight gun stores and found six 4" barreled 686s. Of those six, I looked at five. Of those five, only one was a 7 shot, and two of the rest we used.

The first one I looked at was a 6 shot that was reasonably priced, and had no issues I could find. Good to know it's there.

The second and third were used 6 shots (one pre-owned but "unfired"). Both had timing issues and the cylinder wouldn't rotate far enough for the cylinder latch to engage before the hammer dropped, on more than one chamber, with both guns. The "unfired" one was priced higher than the first gun I looked at. The other had heavy wear for the asking price. Hard pass on both.

The fourth was a 6 shot that, during dry fire, had a sticky trigger reset. At one point it simply failed to go forward at all after the hammer dropped, even after I removed my finger from the trigger guard. I had to resort to wiggling the cylinder to get the trigger to move forward. Hard pass.

The fifth was a 7 shot. On one chamber, with a DA pull, it was particularly stiff and struggling to rotate the cylinder fully or bring the hammer back far enough. Trying to pull the hammer back on that same chamber, it was noticable harder than the other six, with much more resistance. The barrel also wasn't clocked quite right, not bad, but not MSRP worthy. All in all, Hard pass.

The sixth was a 6 shot sitting right next to the 7 shot, but it was priced too high compared to the first 686 I had found to even bother looking at. I might go look again if I find the first one is gone when I go back, or discover an issue with it I hadn't previously found.

I halfway expected this. I made the rounds looking for my last GP100 too, and looked at a half dozen. I settled for a longer than standard trigger pull (not much, but I can tell) and a somewhat poorly clocked barrel (that I corrected by installing a BCA Rough Country rear sight). A little trigger work and it's a sweet shooter now, with a solid lockup.
 
WrongHanded said:
The search is going poorly so far. I've been to eight gun stores and found six 4" barreled 686s. Of those six, I looked at five. Of those five, only one was a 7 shot, and two of the rest we used.

The first one I looked at was a 6 shot that was reasonably priced, and had no issues I could find. Good to know it's there.

The second and third were used 6 shots (one pre-owned but "unfired"). Both had timing issues and the cylinder wouldn't rotate far enough for the cylinder latch to engage before the hammer dropped, on more than one chamber, with both guns. The "unfired" one was priced higher than the first gun I looked at. The other had heavy wear for the asking price. Hard pass on both.

The fourth was a 6 shot that, during dry fire, had a sticky trigger reset. At one point it simply failed to go forward at all after the hammer dropped, even after I removed my finger from the trigger guard. I had to resort to wiggling the cylinder to get the trigger to move forward. Hard pass.

The fifth was a 7 shot. On one chamber, with a DA pull, it was particularly stiff and struggling to rotate the cylinder fully or bring the hammer back far enough. Trying to pull the hammer back on that same chamber, it was noticable harder than the other six, with much more resistance. The barrel also wasn't clocked quite right, not bad, but not MSRP worthy. All in all, Hard pass.

The sixth was a 6 shot sitting right next to the 7 shot, but it was priced too high compared to the first 686 I had found to even bother looking at. I might go look again if I find the first one is gone when I go back, or discover an issue with it I hadn't previously found.

I halfway expected this. I made the rounds looking for my last GP100 too, and looked at a half dozen. I settled for a longer than standard trigger pull (not much, but I can tell) and a somewhat poorly clocked barrel (that I corrected by installing a BCA Rough Country rear sight). A little trigger work and it's a sweet shooter now, with a solid lockup.
Click to expand...

Maybe you should expand your search to include another GP100? I prefer my 4.2" GP to the 586 I hade before it. The action on this one is incredibly smooth.

InkedGP100i_i.jpg
 
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Tacoma said:
Maybe you should expand your search to include another GP100? I prefer my 4.2" GP to the 586 it replaced.

View attachment 1075713
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Well, between my wife and I we have two 4.2" stainless GP100s. Hers is a half lug with fixed sights and a very nice DA trigger (best I've ever had on a GP, of which I've owned 6). Mine is a full lug with adjustable sights (Dawson Precision front, BCA Rough Country rear), and smoothed out with a shim kit and trigger job. These are two guns we will keep until the grave.

So I'm not really interested in getting another GP100, because it'd probably just be a disappointment in comparison to these two. I was looking for a 686 to better experience the other side of th coin. I just have to find one that's good enough.
 
WrongHanded said:
. There's no good reason not to get a 7 shot. The additional shot isn't that big of a deal to me, but if there's no downside to it, it can only be beneficial.
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My only downside is, I don't see where a 7th shot would be a benefit. Most competition it's actually a detriment. Most of the time I shoot at the range I only load 5 in the six shooters anyway because I shoot an informal bullseye league that shoots 15@7 15@15 and 20@25 and it's just easier to keep track.
 
mavracer said:
My only downside is, I don't see where a 7th shot would be a benefit. Most competition it's actually a detriment. Most of the time I shoot at the range I only load 5 in the six shooters anyway because I shoot an informal bullseye league that shoots 15@7 15@15 and 20@25 and it's just easier to keep track.
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Various defensive applications. I know many people consider revolvers inferior to semi-autos for defensive use. There are many reasons to feel that way. There are also a few ways revolvers are superior. Accuracy at farther distances being one, and bullet design being another. Both of which are potential benefits in a woods/wilderness setting. I also find hip shooting with a revolver far easier than with a semi, due to the barrel and underlug weight helping to index the gun. And I find a full sized revolver slightly faster to draw, mainly due to the grip shape. So, there are some objective reasons, and some subjective reasons.

I don't have a preference between the two. I carry semi-autos most of the time these days. But when I do carry a revolver, an extra shot could come in handy.
 
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