Squib rounds

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KY DAN

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So it's a popular subject on this forum lately and I notice alot of criticism of the progressive press family and its many features.

I have loaded since I was 13 and am now 30 I have experienced only 3 squib in this time.

Event 1 colt commando was filled with 4 38 slugs because I was a terrible shot and I was 13 and didn't know better. No damage was done to the Colt, my issue was caused by the fact I was using a lee loader and the factory dipper only dispensed less than 3 grains of unique and I am certain I mis scoped.

Event 2 Smith and wesson 357mag loaded on single stage press

I was dipping powder and loading, I believe I over looked a case (again human error)

Event 3 Ruger security 6 357 mag

I was loading 38 special on a ch auto champion and I had a jam and I had to clear it and in the process I loaded a case with no powder.....

The above events are caused by human errors not machines. I have loaded far too many rounds of ammunition in the last 17 years to feel different, a clean powder measure and a constant follow through will see any issue is eliminated. I find it great insurance to resize all brass to be loaded, prime said brass, and the. Feed them through a progressive press. I own 12 progressive presses and even though I have powder check dies on my tool heads I safely feel I am just as ok without them. If I don't have issues with a press I can't have issues with powder.

If a measure, expander, etc are cleaned and de greased and ball powder used how can it not deliver a dependable and repeatable charge?

I use primarily true blue, Winchester 231, win 748 and do not have issues...... I have issues with unique and flake powders. In 2019 I began using a stash a 3000 38 specials I loaded in 2008/09 and I noticed BOOM,boom,BOOM,BOOM,boom,boom and it continued that way for 1000 rounds. The load was 158 grain lead with 5 grains unique. Upon tear down my loads were from 3 grains to 6grains of powder.....YIKES I have never had this happen since I started using ball powder.

Please consider abandoning the practice of target loads, that is why they made a 22lr. If you can't shoot the caliber in its full power loading just give it up. (I know people will hate this but once you have 100,000 rounds under your belt you start to understand what works and what doesn't) I used to think getting 20,000 38 spl from a 8 pound bottle of bullseye was cool until I started shooting steel challenges and bowling pin matches and targets barly fell down if at all in some cases.

From a standpoint of properly maintained equipment, the appropriate powder type, a full power load , and human attention backed with a mechanical check powder die you should never have a squib.

Prove me wrong lol
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
There’s a quote from Hamlet that covers this. But I won’t quote it. Suffice to say, thanks kindly for the advice.
Click to expand...

Is it the I think protest too much? Lol

Yeah I am opionated but I generate quality ammo and I think anyone can do the same if they use the methods I employ. I know there are people here who will disagree and that is fine..... you can be wrong lol. I have shot a little of 100,000 rounds in ipsc, target practice, military rifle matches, bowling pin shoots, plikinking. I own every major and minor progressive reloading press made since 1970 and I have opions based off using those machines.(star progressive, star Universal, rpd1500, ch auto champion, Dillon 450,Dillon 550, Dillon 650,Dillon rl1000, lee loadmaster, Lee pro1000)

I am only 30 but if you can use my experience to make your life better then I have accomplished the mission of thr to educate and innovate the gun owner and shooting community.
 
KY DAN said:
Is it the I think protest too much? Lol

Yeah I am opionated but I generate quality ammo and I think anyone can do the same if they use the methods I employ. I know there are people here who will disagree and that is fine..... you can be wrong lol. I have shot a little of 100,000 rounds in ipsc, target practice, military rifle matches, bowling pin shoots, plikinking. I own every major and minor progressive reloading press made since 1970 and I have opions based off using those machines.(star progressive, star Universal, rpd1500, ch auto champion, Dillon 450,Dillon 550, Dillon 650,Dillon rl1000, lee loadmaster, Lee pro1000)

I am only 30 but if you can use my experience to make your life better then I have accomplished the mission of thr to educate and innovate the gun owner and shooting community.
Click to expand...
I was 30 once! fearless and very Good Looking
 
I have never had a squib load from ammo that I have loaded. I mostly load in a single stage and I have a good system for checking my own steps.
I have witnessed quite a few squibs. Mostly at Cowboy Action matches. Nearly every time I have heard the words “I was in a hurry”.
In other cases I have heard the words “I shouldn’t have been drinking while reloading.”
In these cases the guys were known to tip a few while doing pretty much anything.

My own rules for myself are:
1. Take your time. If I am pressed for time, I don’t reload.
2. No distractions - No TV. No BSing
3. No alcohol. This is a big one!
4. Only one powder on the bench at a time.
 
On the Dillon 750 with a Hornady powder cop in position 3 you can see all the following from the same position by just looking up or down a few degrees ...

1) cases soon going into the press are present and facing right direction
2) powder cop rod rises to expected level as ram reaches top (powder present, no double charge)
3) primer cup going back toward the deck from the magazine has a primer and is facing up
 
Pat Riot said:
I have never had a squib load from ammo that I have loaded. I mostly load in a single stage and I have a good system for checking my own steps.
I have witnessed quite a few squibs. Mostly at Cowboy Action matches. Nearly every time I have heard the words “I was in a hurry”.
In other cases I have heard the words “I shouldn’t have been drinking while reloading.”
In these cases the guys were known to tip a few while doing pretty much anything.

My own rules for myself are:
1. Take your time. If I am pressed for time, I don’t reload.
2. No distractions - No TV. No BSing
3. No alcohol. This is a big one!
4. Only one powder on the bench at a time.
Click to expand...

I've been loading since the late 80's, started on a progressive from day 1, a Dillon Square Deal (enough rounds that I've had my press rebuilt twice and the entire frame replaced once) and I've only ever had 1 squib, on a single stage.


Because I was in a hurry.


Edit: spelling
 
Im in my early 20s, also have been loading since a teen. My squib days was when i first started out. Was using too little of H110. Big error on my part but granted i didn't understand how to read the powder data yet. Was just using a single .5cc scoop of h110.

Want to know the biggest lesson I've learned? You must have alot of money to have every major press since about 1970.
I still have been relying on my hand presses.
 
KY DAN said:
If I don't have issues with a press I can't have issues with powder.
Click to expand...
Perhaps not, however, there are other components that may come in to play to create a squib. The primer may not ignite the powder, contaminates in the case, contaminates leaching into the case, you could have loaded .380 cases in a 9mm process, had no neck tension and the powder ignites but doesn’t produce enough pressure, lots more I’m sure. The net is, squibs can happen.

KY DAN said:
Please consider abandoning the practice of target loads, that is why they made a 22lr.
Click to expand...
I’m not quite sure what you mean by target loads, but if it’s a lighter than SD load, I think the entire competitive crowd just had a collective “gads”! Most competition have a minimum PF, but suspect it’s lighter than an SD load. Still, I like to manufacture light target loads for my SO and incoming shooters. While they’re “light”, I believe they are not squib material. Be safe out there!
 
I shoot tons of reduced loads, but I have tested them extensively to make sure they will always get the bullet out of the barre, regardless of temperature or powder position.

Unique is a little above average as far as velocity is concerned in relationship to powder position.

Lots of loads that lose a lot of speed with the powder forward will still shoot through the same hole at 5/10/15 yards.
 
Walkalong said:
I shoot tons of reduced loads, but I have tested them extensively to make sure they will always get the bullet out of the barre, regardless of temperature or powder position.

Unique is a little above average as far as velocity is concerned in relationship to powder position.

Lots of loads that lose a lot of speed with the powder forward will still shoot through the same hole at 5/10/15 yards.
Click to expand...
Now there is a data list that I would like to have. I know a few test for it, but I'm still working on initial loads, and I consider that refignment.
 
I have had one squib with the Loadmaster progressive. Early on. My fault. Got out-of-process.

Now, I look at the powder level inside every case before covering with a bullet. I say "powder" while verifying the powder level, then say "cover" when placing the bullet. Having eyes and ears saying the same thing helps me.

Also mounted a goose-neck penlights on the press to shine a light inside the case.
 
KY DAN said:
Please consider abandoning the practice of target loads, that is why they made a 22lr. If you can't shoot the caliber in its full power loading just give it up. (I know people will hate this but once you have 100,000 rounds under your belt you start to understand what works and what doesn't) I used to think getting 20,000 38 spl from a 8 pound bottle of bullseye was cool until I started shooting steel challenges and bowling pin matches and targets barly fell down if at all in some cases.
Click to expand...

I can't imagine how many millions, likely billions of .38 target loads have been made with 1/20000th of a keg of Bullseye (2.8 grains). Apart from the "detonation" scare of 30 years ago, there have been few complaints. If you are shooting at bowling pins or knockdown steel targets* with midrange wadcutters, you are not properly equipped.

KY DAN said:
100,000 rounds in ipsc...
Click to expand...

Don't see many ipsc around here. USPSA is nominally a Region of IPSC but it rules are significantly different. They discussed seceding, but apparently there are money advantages to the foreign connection.

*Regulation SCSA Steel Challenge is scored by ear and paint, it is not required to knock down the plates. Which is why I shoot it with a .22. Of course there are wildcat steel shoots using the name.

KY DAN said:
star progressive, star Universal, rpd1500, ch auto champion, Dillon 450,Dillon 550, Dillon 650,Dillon rl1000, lee loadmaster, Lee pro1000
Click to expand...

Good collection. I have a disused AutoCHamp, it got to where I could not keep the linear advance timed and CH would no longer support it. They told me they could not get liability insurance for a mass production machine. I should have bought a Star. Dillon now.
I remember an old Handloader's Digest article about the RPD, but have never seen one in person. They were very expensive at the time, you likely have one of a very few.
 
I've been reloading sense 1986. I have NEVER had a squib or any other failure to fire with my reloads. I am now just a few months from my 80th birthday and in good health. I anticipate NO squibs or failures to fire! I use a Lee turret (cast iron) and a Lee "O" press (also cast iron). I weigh EVER powder charge on a RCBS Charge Master Lite and back it up with a RCBS 5-0-5 balance. I load 10 different calibers.
 
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KY DAN said:
Event 1, 2, 3 . . .

Please consider abandoning the practice of target loads, that is why they made a 22lr.
Click to expand...

You screw up during your loading process, and now no one should load reduced power loads?

Yeah, that's perfectly logical.
 
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I have stuck three bullets. None were zero powder "squibs".
One was a light bullet over a light powder charge at too long OAL. The primer flash simply did not reach the powder.
One was a wetted factory load, the primer fired but the powder was damp. Not all ammo is waterproof.
One was an unfortunately common bulk pack .22 LR.
 
Walkalong said:
It’s not the press, it’s the process.
Click to expand...

This is such a true statement. When I was thirty I believed that the way I did things was the only way. Not trying to be offensive to the OP but as you get older, I am now 60, you see that there are many ways to be successful in just about any endeavor in life. And you find out that not everyones goals in reloading are the same as yours so they may do thing differently and that is OK as long as they are being safe.

I have had three squibs while reloading. The first two were completely my fault. I fixed the process and haven't had a load with no powder since. I had one with a 9mm round the other day. I took it out and put it back in the gun and BANG. So sometimes anomalies just happen. Be safe, keep reloading and keep learning from you mistake.
 
I used to say “Progressive presses cause squibs” because I saw so many people at CAS matches have squibs or varied powder loads - one round wimpy, next round powerful.
Every time there was a super wimpy load or a squib I would ask “What kind of press do you use?”. The answers were always the name and model of quality presses so I stuck to my slow single stage because I didn’t want squib or variable powder level loads.
Then one day I went to a friend’s house when he was reloading for a big cowboy match that we were headed to. Had I known he was hand loading that day I wouldn’t have visited.
I showed up and he was has just started. He was in a Dillon 550. He had the tv on a news channel. He was drinking beer. He was bs’ing with me. His wife was in and out for various reasons. He was stopping and starting while he showed me new guns, old guns, modified guns…and all the while cranking that handle as fast as he could to impress upon me how quickly I could load up 500 rounds for a weekend match.
At the match that weekend my friend didn’t have any squibs but he had lots of low powder loads and loads that had too much power.
That was the day I realized it wasn’t the press. It was the operator that was the problem.
He didn’t like what I had to say when he started b****ing about how his press must be jacked up.

Eventually I did buy my own Dillon 550, but I found I was just a little to OCD to trust the press and I like my single stage process so, I gave my Dillon to a Boy Scout troop. I bought it used for a great price and it felt good to help out a bunch of young men learning about reloading and shooting.

I have encountered numerous problems reloading, but thankfully, no squibs, but I will never say that “I will never have squibs”. We are all human and make mistakes. The key is to learn from them.
 
fxvr5 said:
You screw up during your loading process, and now no one should load reduced power loads?

Yeah, that's perfectly logical.
Click to expand...

I didn't say that knuckle head

I screwed up AS WELL AS COUNTLESS OTHERS loading reduced rounds and suffered the consequences of said actions. A person can avoid this this possibility by just not loading reduced loads. A powder charge that takes up 60% or more of a cases interior volume is impossible to miss when the inspection phase begins.

Why allow any possible problems in a new build if you can design around it?

Remove all guess work is what I promote
 
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