Staccato 2011s for Law Enforcement Use

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USBP379

USBP379

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I do find it somewhat remarkable that Staccato has been able to take the 2011 from a competition handgun into one that's almost main stream for LE.

Here is a recent AmericanRifleman.com article that mentions 500+ departments allow the 2011 for police use:

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Review: Staccato 2011 P Optic Ready

I'm curious about the numbers. I assume 99% of the guns being carried are personal purchase with only the best-funded SWAT teams buying for team use. Groups like USMS and probably LAPD SWAT.

Anyway, the big point to discuss is the real (or imagined) benefit the 2011 has over pretty much everything else out there. Is the $2400 price tag worth it or are we just talking status symbol?

And where is Wilson Combat in all this? If Staccato can re-invent the 2011 for police use can't Wilson Combat make inroads into the same market with the SFX9 and the EDC X9L? Don't these guns swim in the same market space?
 
There is probably a difference between authorized and used, and I agree most who do use them are probably buying their own.

Is it more accurate than their duty competition, the polymer/striker gun, probably, by a whole lot, probably not. Is it easier manipulating the single action trigger rather than a striker trigger, probably. Is there some safety advantage to having a thumb and grip safety for administrative handling and when wrestling over the gun with a suspect, probably. Would I spend four times the price of a Glock for a duty gun, probably not.

Would I like to own a Staccato P, sure. Would I prefer to have a Staccato P rather than four Glocks, absolutely. Would I prefer a Staccato P more than one Glock and a bunch of ammo, holsters, and lunch money, maybe not.
 
Unfortunately I just don't think most LEOs are "Gun Guys". As such, they look at their sidearm as a tool of their trade, not so much a work of art, or a 1911/2011 as a revered design. I'm betting that most LEOs that would pony up for one of these would do so for either status, or nostalgia. I pretty much agree with what @JTQ said above.
 
USBP379 said:
Here is a recent AmericanRifleman.com article that mentions 500+ departments allow the 2011 for police use:
Click to expand...
How many departments issue Staccatos to their officers? I'm guessing zero.
 
US Marshals SOG apparently issue these. Also possibly LAPD SWAT. And also possibly TX DPS SRT.
 
In this era of declining PD budgets, I’d be surprised to see a big move toward high end Staccatos. Our PD (small podunk town) just went from Glock 21’s to Glock 17’s with a RDS. They ended up paying less than $400 per gun with trade in. No way we could afford $2,500 per gun! The quality of ammo available for 9mm has gone up significantly in the last 20 years, which helps negate a lot of the benefit of .45 ACP.

I just don’t see an big Staccato transition coming….
 
$2500 is the civilian price, and that's for one that is optics read and had a threaded barrel. I don't know what the L.E price is, they call it the "Heroes Program" but it is essentially the same as Glock's blue label. There are several departments that use them, I think Staccato displays which ones on their website.

I have a Staccato P DPO that replaced most of my other duty sized 9mms. It's a pleasure to shoot, sort of like your favorite polymer frame and a 1911 mixed together. It wasn't my first 2011, I have a couple of STIs so it was familiar territory. It is fun to shoot, and the few new shooters that have tried it all said it's easier to shoot than the strikers.
 
Meanwhile, the highly trained members of US Special Operations (along with those from an endless number of other nations) use Glocks in some flavor or another, either in stock form or with a few minor enhancements- having happily moved on from 1911 pistols long ago. I'm sure these stacattos are quality guns, so do what makes you happy and what your $ will allow. As for me, I'm sticking with what I use best.
 
FL-NC said:
Meanwhile, the highly trained members of US Special Operations (along with those from an endless number of other nations) use Glocks in some flavor or another, either in stock form or with a few minor enhancements- having happily moved on from 1911 pistols long ago. I'm sure these stacattos are quality guns, so do what makes you happy and what your $ will allow. As for me, I'm sticking with what I use best.
Click to expand...
STI use to be COOL! with Steelmaster, Open DVC with crazy comp and optic bracket. NOW… they are looking for contracts
 
It would be an interesting case study to take something like a dozen officers with different levels of firearms skill and have them qualify and train for something like a year with a stock Glock and then switch these officers over to something like the Staccato. To do this right you'd probably have to do the same with something somewhat more pedestrian like the Shadow Systems XR920 and then also add the ZEV OZ9. Would qual scores improve, across the board, with a change from a completely stock pistol to something more "top of the line" like the Staccato or ZEV? What about other things besides quals? Did accuracy accountability change in a positive or negative way between the various platforms in any OIS? What about safety problems? ADs during maintenance, etc? And does one gun hold up better with daily bumps, dings, spills than something else? Assigning some sort of score or value for all these and fairly and accurately tabulating would be quite difficult.

Aside from that, if an officer has the money to spend on something like a Staccato (maybe spouse is a lawyer or trauma surgeon) then that's a good thing. If a gun is durable, accurate and reliable and the officer likes it he'll probably be more inclined to spend time on the range which, in turn, benefits everyone.
 
There was an article on police1 on the Stacatto and how it shrank groups down significantly compared to striker fired pistols. I don't remember the details and I can't find it.

I would like one but can't afford it, so run a single stack 9mm 1911 for work. The 9mm in a heavy-ish pistol is a joy to shoot, with quick return from recoil and that excellent 1911 trigger for fast follow up shots. I do get knocked for its limited (10 round) capacity but have gotten quick with reloads.

I would think that, for most law enforcement officers, sticking with a polymer pistol may be best, as it is just another tool on the tool belt and requires much less maintenance than a 1911. I worry about my 1911 when it snows and make sure to oil it weekly. I don't know how much more maintenance the Stacatto needs in comparison but would imagine it somewhat like a 1911 in maintenance needs.
 
IlikeSA said:
I worry about my 1911 when it snows and make sure to oil it weekly. I don't know how much more maintenance the Stacatto needs in comparison but would imagine it somewhat like a 1911 in maintenance needs.
Click to expand...

I'd guess this is correct. As good as the 1911 is, it can require a bit more attention to detail than more modern handguns.

Staccato does offer armorer and transition classes to departments.

They also have a loaner gun program and a "VIP type" warranty and inspection program for duty guns that get shipped back to the factory. That sounds fine but would seem to be a major inconvenience especially if the gun just needs disassembly to clean some crud out of the grip safety or something.

I guess if I was fortunate enough to work for a department that authorized these guns for carry I'd sign up for Hilton Yam's online maintenance class so I could do the more advanced stuff myself.
 
I can only imagine a fancy dept. with image considerations in a deep pocket town like a Beverly Hills or Aspen buying and outfitting themselves with these.

Most others have to deal with the reality that they can buy 4 very serviceable Glocks instead of one of these.

I think any town allowing their police dept. to spend over $2K each for individual sidearms has no consideration for their taxpayers.
 
FL-NC said:
Meanwhile, the highly trained members of US Special Operations (along with those from an endless number of other nations) use Glocks in some flavor or another, either in stock form or with a few minor enhancements- having happily moved on from 1911 pistols long ago.
Click to expand...

Well, they're forced to use Glocks, they're not necessarily happy to have switched to them. When uncle Sam is paying the bill - they go with the lowest bidder.
 
This is a sample size of one, but I have both the P and C2. I also have quite a few carry/duty size guns including Glocks, M&P's, Sigs and CZ's. They are all fantastic guns, or I wouldn't keep them. I volunteer as armed security at our church and we train 1 to 2 times a month, running different drills. I can put more rounds on target more quickly with the Staccatos than with any other gun I own. They've been 100% reliable. It doesn't mean it's the best fit for everyone, just for me. The only reason the C2 isn't my primary carry gun is back issues I'm trying to get over force me to pocket carry on a daily basis. All of this being said, I understand municipalities hesitating to pay the additional cost for Staccatos compared to other available options.
 
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