Fixing hammer push off in an H&R

Being unfamiliar with the design, I would hazard a guess that the hammer/sear engagement needs to be modified so the sear has a bigger bite.

Does it have a hair trigger in SA?

A push off test should not be done. Measure the weight of the trigger pull.


Note, there at 2 kinds of hammers in link below.
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/hr/revolvers-hr/young-america

The hammer sear contact "may" need adjusted. Look at the notch in the hammer first.

These areas may be surface hardened. If hardened at all.

Trigger work is very dangerous. Contacting a gunsmith is always best.

TTv2 said:

....With these not having a side plate, I don't think anyone has ever punched out all the pins to do anything inside....

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I have and I don't recommend it. It's an absolute bitch to get everything back inside in proper order and engaged and in the end you're going to wish you'd left it alone.

Have you made sure the related parts are clean and dry?? (where you can get to them with a Q-tip and air pressure, anyway)

Well, maybe a pipe cleaner. A toothpick, even. Take the grips off. You can get to most of the innards with canned air and/or aerosol action cleaner through the frame, the trigger slot, or the hammer slot.

wiscoaster said:

don't recommend it. It's an absolute bitch to get everything back inside in proper order and engaged and in the end you're going to wish you'd left it alone.

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Although I agree with @wiscoaster about the difficulty of working on a solid frame revolver, it can be disassembled/reassembled by the user. It takes a lot of staring at it to figure out how to reassemble. But once you disassemble it you will almost certainly be faced with modifying the sear engagement. And that takes specialized skills that even an avid `Tinkerer' can't do reliably/safely. As a solid frame you can't look at it in place to see what the problem is. So unless the problem is dried grease or something that is easy to see on the parts you won't be able to diagnose the problem either.

Finding a gunsmith to work on it will be even more difficult than reassembling it. They can't reasonably make enough money to do it right. Add in the possibility of something else breaking or going wrong and it just isn't worth it.

There is the slightest possibility that there's a small amount of gunk/dried grease preventing full sear engagement. Not terribly likely but this is something we as non-gunsmiths can address by soaking the entire gun in a degreasing solution. Harbour Frieght sells an inexpensive sonic cleaner that can help. Depending on barrel length it could help. If not hours/days of soaking in degreaser just might clear out that last little bit. Not a guarantee though.

One could disassemble and clean the parts with a wire brush and reassemble if soaking doesn't work. But resolve that you will become more familiar with the working of that gun than you really want to be.

Do you know when it was manufactured? Here is a clip from Bill Goforth on the Young American

the "H&R Young America" revolver was introduced in about 1890 and remained in production until 1942. in the first model the were several serial number series so the total actually manufactured is unknown. starting in 1905 with the introduction of the second model the serial numbers were one continous series going to over 500000. your revolver serial number 493924 is a very late production second model, most likely about 1939 or so. the highest serial number i have recorded for the young america model is 505168 and it also is a 7 shot 22 rimfire model.
bill

Here is a summary of the Young American also by Bill Goforth

YOUNG AMERICA DOUBLE ACTION FIRST MODEL
(BLACK POWDER) -----------------------------1884-1904
pull pin cylinder release, nickel finish standard, blue considered rare, marking on top strap only “YOUNG AMERICA DOUBLE ACTION” or “YOUNG AMERICAN DOUBLE ACTION” two frame sizes
SMALL SOLID FRAME .22 RIMFIRE 7 SHOT, octagon barrel, lengths of 2, 4½ and 6 inches
MEDIUM FRAME .32 S&W CALIBER 5 SHOT, octagon barrel, lengths of 2, 4½ and 6 inches
First Variation will have a round barrel & nickel trigger guard----------------------1884-1887
Second Variation will have a octagon barrel & nickel trigger guard----------------------1888-1897
Third Variation will have a octagon barrel , blue trigger guard and company name and address on left side of barrel -----------1897-1904
VALUE: First Variation 100%=$275 60%=$100 Others 100%=$225 60%=$65
For all Young America Double Action variations and variants add 15% premium for blue finish and 10% premium for 4½” or 6” barrels.


YOUNG AMERICA DOUBLE ACTION SECOND MODEL SMALL FRAME
22 RIMFIRE CALIBER--------------------------------1905-1941
.22 short rimfire 7 shot, pull pin cylinder release Nickel finish, blue optional 2, 4½ & 6 inches barrel lengths, will have caliber and company name & address marked on side of barrel, Top strap will be marked “YOUNG AMERICA DOUBLE ACTION” or “YOUNG AMERICAN DOUBLE ACTION”
After 1930 listed in catalogs as; YOUNG AMERICA No. 70 DOUBLE ACTION
VALUE: 100%=$235 60%=$65
For all Young America Double Action variations and variants add 15% premium for blue finish and 10% premium for 4½” or 6” barrels.

only the second model is suitable for smokeless powder ammo.

243winxb said:

A push off test should not be done.

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Can you elaborate on why a push off test should not be done? I'm just a tinkerer and would like to understand.

Johnm1 said:

why a push off test should not be done?

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Back in the 1960, it was said to be a way to smooth & polish the hammer & sear contact areas. Lighten the trigger pull.
But do it to much or press to heavy on the hammer, and damage happens.

Old gun parts may be as soft as butter.

If i can smack the back strap on a revolver with the palm of my hand & the hammer drops, it needs repair. Getting a good reading on the trigger pull weight is where to start. And not a spring tester. Use real weights.

I am not a gunsmith, but been called it many times.

Would be nice to hear from a factory trained S&W gunsmith.

I kinda thought that the test itself was somewhat destructive. But didn't want to assume anything.

Thanks for the reply.

TTv2 said:

I don't believe grease or oil is the issue.

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And it likely isn't. But it is the simplest thing to accomplish without disassembling the firearm. Although it's possible to disassemble and reassemble yourself it does take a lot of concentration make sure you understand where the parts go back. You'll also have to learn how to use a slave pin when multiple pieces that pivot on the same pin need to be inserted at the same time. Hint, heavy grease helps keep the parts together while you're inserting them.

The problem comes after you disassemble the firearm and have the pieces in your hand. You can arrange them how you think they are is the firearm but you never know the exact angle. And that is the key to repairing The Sear engagement.

How much force does it take to push the hammer off? Does the hammer fall when a sharp blow is applied to the back of the firearm frame with a nylon or wood hammer replicating a dropped firearm?

The real key is getting that little bitch of a trigger spring back in exactly right and under tension while you close the trigger guard.

I don't recommend the heavy grease because that's what's going to accumulate crud and cause problems in the future.

When I disassemble a firearm I take photos of every step in the process so I know what came out from where in which order and at what angle. I tape the pin to a post-it with a note about where it came from and which end is which. Most pins that hold non-moving parts together are tapered, so direction is material.

Ditto the above advice about a slave pin. A small nail of the proper size with the head snipped off works.

Ooo. I think I remember that spring. Doest it have a pin that goes through the bend?

Good point on the grease. I hadn't considered that. If one can make a slave pin of the correct diameter one can rely on friction sometimes. But sometimes you have to bite the bullet and use grease. Though I've never cleaned the grease out, I suppose one could flush it out when done.

Good points.

Johnm1 said:

Ooo. I think I remember that spring. Doest it have a pin that goes through the bend?

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Well, you're really testing my 72-year-old memory, now, ha!! IF I remember right, on my 929, it's held in place by a right-angle bend that goes into a slot, but when you close the trigger guard, the motion of doing that puts pressure on the spring that drives it out of the slot. So the trick is to keep it in place, in the slot, which isn't easy, given that you're closing up access to it. That's probably the one spot where the heavy grease trick might help without risk of fouling.

Then, again, I might be thinking of my Iver Johnson Target Sealed 8, which is pretty much the same story of a closed-frame revolver.

No lubes on hammer sear contact areas. I took guns apart while in a box. Stops flying springs.