Leading issue 9 mm Luger Any help ?

lordpaxman · May 2, 2022

Zap01! said:
Not sure what I am doing wrong any help would be appreciated thanks

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/reloading-library-of-wisdom.649184/

There are lots of good links in here including the plunk test. You need to do this first with every new bullet and barrel combination to determine what your working COL will be. What is the make of the gun you’re shooting? Are you sure it’s a leading problem, or, just some of the coating in the barrel? If you don’t expand the case enough to prevent the coating from being shaved off, then you could see some leading. If you have a bullet puller, pull one of your loaded rounds and examine the loaded bullet. There are a lot of us that load and shoot coated and don’t see any leading.

Starter52 said:
Cast bullets are not the best for 9mm pistols, regardless of sizing.

There are a lot of companies that make cast bullets for various calibers and do quite well. There’s nothing wrong with cast bullets, and Dg makes a good cast/coated bullet.

Blue68f100 · May 2, 2022

frogfurr said:
Chore Boy won't hurt your barrel. It's soft copper. You can throw all your bullets in the trash. Or buy some Chore Boy.

Not all, a lot you see these days are copper plated steel. Use a magnet and make sure you got the copper ones.

Zap01! · May 2, 2022

lordpaxman said:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/reloading-library-of-wisdom.649184/

There are lots of good links in here including the plunk test. You need to do this first with every new bullet and barrel combination to determine what your working COL will be. What is the make of the gun you’re shooting? Are you sure it’s a leading problem, or, just some of the coating in the barrel? If you don’t expand the case enough to prevent the coating from being shaved off, then you could see some leading. If you have a bullet puller, pull one of your loaded rounds and examine the loaded bullet. There are a lot of us that load and shoot coated and don’t see any leading.

There are a lot of companies that make cast bullets for various calibers and do quite well. There’s nothing wrong with cast bullets, and Dg makes a good cast/coated bullet.

Taurus G3 Made 20 more last night and did the plink test shoot them at lunch and still had leading I did notice 3 or 4 have had some coating shaved off win I was done so I need to adjust my powder though expanding diy . I don’t have A bullet puller something I still need to invest in

Shot very accurate though So when I get home tonight I am going to try adjusting my powder through expanding though diy And really clean my barrel and try shooting some again if I’m still having problems I will bump up powder charge a little bit like someone mentioned before and see what happens ?

Zap01! · May 2, 2022

lordpaxman said:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/reloading-library-of-wisdom.649184/

There are lots of good links in here including the plunk test. You need to do this first with every new bullet and barrel combination to determine what your working COL will be. What is the make of the gun you’re shooting? Are you sure it’s a leading problem, or, just some of the coating in the barrel? If you don’t expand the case enough to prevent the coating from being shaved off, then you could see some leading. If you have a bullet puller, pull one of your loaded rounds and examine the loaded bullet. There are a lot of us that load and shoot coated and don’t see any leading.

There are a lot of companies that make cast bullets for various calibers and do quite well. There’s nothing wrong with cast bullets, and Dg makes a good cast/coated bullet.

GeoDudeFlorida · May 2, 2022

Zap01! said:
Taurus G3 Made 20 more last night and did the plink test shoot them at lunch and still had leading I did notice 3 or 4 have had some coating shaved off win I was done so I need to adjust my powder though expanding diy . I don’t have A bullet puller something I still need to invest in

Shot very accurate though So when I get home tonight I am going to try adjusting my powder through expanding though diy And really clean my barrel and try shooting some again if I’m still having problems I will bump up powder charge a little bit like someone mentioned before and see what happens ?

I think you just nailed it. If the coating is broken it will allow the lead to be exposed to the hot gases passing the bullet on the way out of the barrel. Remember, the only part of the bullet that's supposed to be exposed to hot gas is the base, and it won't typically leave lead behind. Leading comes from a failure of the bullet's base to obturate - flatten, deform, and fill in the rifling and other voids in the barrel - which is why some bullets have flat bases which are designed to seal when heat and force are applied. Bullets with so-called "bevel-bases" are designed to seat easier in a case without having to expand the case mouth, supposedly increasing case life, but they dobn't seal as well because the base doesn't flatten, allowing hot gases to pass by the bullet. Break the coating and those hot gases melt micro fissures in the bullet and leave lead behind.

reddog81 · May 2, 2022

Powder coated lead bullets will work just fine in 9mm assuming you do your part.

Powder coated bullets shouldn't lead your bore if the PC is cured correctly. Even if the bullets are a bit undersized. I use .357 in all my 9s but have used .356 before.

Using a Lyman M die for an expander is helpful to make sure the bullets don't get squished down in diameter when seating. If your coating is getting shaved off while seating the bullets there is a problem somewhere in the process. Fixing this issue might fix the leading problem, but if the bullets are cured correctly it shouldn't make that much of a difference.

bullseye308 · May 2, 2022

I load my home cast and coated bullets in 9mm in 2 glocks, 2 1911s, a ruger sr9c, and an 8” AR9 and get no leading. It’s definitely doable and all but the ruger have had thousands of my powder coated ulcers through them.

The ruger is my wife’s and she won’t let me “wear it out”. Like that would happen with target loads and lead bullets, but we pick our fights and this one I’m not gonna win.

kcofohio · May 2, 2022

reddog81 said:
Powder coated lead bullets will work just fine in 9mm assuming you do your part.

Powder coated bullets shouldn't lead your bore if the PC is cured correctly. Even if the bullets are a bit undersized. I use .357 in all my 9s but have used .356 before.

Using a Lyman M die for an expander is helpful to make sure the bullets don't get squished down in diameter when seating. If your coating is getting shaved off while seating the bullets there is a problem somewhere in the process. Fixing this issue might fix the leading problem, but if the bullets are cured correctly it shouldn't make that much of a difference.

I recently bought a Lee's universal expander just for cast bullets. It does give the bullets a better experience when seating.

rtufixer · May 3, 2022

I use DG bullets a lot never an issue. Now I don't use tight group I use 231. I shoot their 9mm 125 gr lead conical nose works great also use their 38 and 45 bullets oops boolits
By the way I shoot the 9mm pills from a taurus pt 99 with .356 dia pills

Zap01! · May 3, 2022

Zap01! said:
I am going to try adjusting my powder through expanding though diy And really clean my barrel and try shooting some again if I’m still having problems I will bump up powder charge a little bit like someone mentioned before and see what happens ?

I adjusted my powder through expanding die The most I can The bullets sit in The case mouth perfectly doesn’t take much pressure to see the bullet But the only way for me to tell for sure that I’m not peeling off the coating is to get a bullet puller As someone mentioned . I ended up having to seat the bullet close to 1.075 to get them to pass the plunk test I tried increasing Powder charge didn’t seem to help I tried reducing powder charge below starting powder charge didn’t seem to help I think before I load too many more I’m going to read my lee book again Any suggestions on a more comprehensive reloading manual Thanks to everyone who replied I think I was doing a lot wrong and you guys help me correct It

GeoDudeFlorida · May 3, 2022

Zap01! said:
I adjusted my powder through expanding die The most I can The bullets sit in The case mouth perfectly doesn’t take much pressure to see the bullet But the only way for me to tell for sure that I’m not peeling off the coating is to get a bullet puller As someone mentioned . I ended up having to seat the bullet close to 1.075 to get them to pass the plunk test I tried increasing Powder charge didn’t seem to help I tried reducing powder charge below starting powder charge didn’t seem to help I think before I load too many more I’m going to read my lee book again Any suggestions on a more comprehensive reloading manual Thanks to everyone who replied I think I was doing a lot wrong and you guys help me correct It

The four times I’m most likely to mess up the coating on a bullet: getting them out of the box; getting them into the case; getting them into the seating die; and, crimping. Now, I don’t know about you but, if it’s me, getting them out of the box and crimping in the seating die are probably where I’ll mess up. Anyway, it sounds like process but never dismiss the possibility of a product defect. Work with the vendor and see if maybe you just got a bad batch. It happens to even the best companies.

LiveLife · May 3, 2022

Zap01! said:
Taurus G3 ... Only shot 50 rounds

Have you slugged the barrel to determine the groove-to-groove diameter?

Taurus barrels I have seen didn't have smooth bore surface.

I usually "break in" aftermarket Glock barrels I shoot lead bullets with by shooting several hundred rounds of jacketed rounds to smooth the bore surface.

Zap01! · May 3, 2022

LiveLife said:
Have you slugged the barrel to determine the groove-to-groove diameter?

Somewhat I don’t know where to buy any but I tried to make one out of a bullet and melted it in a casing then cutting it out with a grinder From the best I can tell It measured to .355 I have a taurus G2c as well I might try to shoot them out of that gun as well

LiveLife · May 3, 2022

Zap01! said:
LiveLife said:

Have you slugged the barrel to determine the groove-to-groove diameter?

Click to expand...

Somewhat ... I don’t know

You could squish a bullet with vise to measure the groove to groove diameter of the barrel

Use a vise/hammer to squeeze a lead RN bullet to slightly larger diameter than barrel's bore

Tap the bullet partially into the barrel

Tap out the bullet with brass/aluminum rod (Or 1/4" socket extension wrapped with paper towel/plastic to protect the barrel/rifling)

Measure high spot-to-high spot for groove-to-groove diameter of the barrel

GeoDudeFlorida · May 3, 2022

You know, the more I look at that second picture the more I wonder if that’s lead or the coating streaking.

Zap01! · May 3, 2022

GeoDudeFlorida said:
The four times I’m most likely to mess up the coating on a bullet: getting them out of the box; getting them into the case; getting them into the seating die; and, crimping. Now, I don’t know about you but, if it’s me, getting them out of the box and crimping in the seating die are probably where I’ll mess up. Anyway, it sounds like process but never dismiss the possibility of a product defect. Work with the vendor and see if maybe you just got a bad batch. It happens to even the best companies.

I’m just assuming I am doing something wrong New to reloading lol but I might try to give them a call and see what they think of the situation

Is plated or full metal jacket more forgiving then lead ?

GeoDudeFlorida · May 3, 2022

Zap01! said:
I’m just assuming I am doing something wrong New to reloading lol but I might try to give them a call and see what they think of the situation

Is plated or full metal jacket more forgiving then lead ?

I’ve been handloading since the mid-70’s and still don’t know the answer to that question.

LiveLife · May 3, 2022

GeoDudeFlorida said:
You know, the more I look at that second picture the more I wonder if that’s lead or the coating streaking.

Here's how to determine whether it's leading (OP, check out this chapter on leading) - http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_7_Leading.htm

Zap01! · May 3, 2022

LiveLife said:
You could squish a bullet with vise to measure the groove to groove diameter of the barrel

Use a vise/hammer to squeeze a lead RN bullet to slightly larger diameter than barrel's bore

Tap the bullet partially into the barrel

Tap out the bullet with brass/aluminum rod (Or 1/4" socket extension wrapped with paper towel/plastic to protect the barrel/rifling)

Measure high spot-to-high spot for groove-to-groove diameter of the barrel

I tried driving one of the bullets down in the barrel I don’t think I’ll be able to drive it without Hurting something how hard should you have to hit it to make it go in. And wi Will it work with it being coated

LiveLife · May 3, 2022

Zap01! said:
I tried driving one of the bullets down in the barrel I don’t think I’ll be able to drive it without Hurting something how hard should you have to hit it to make it go in. And wi Will it work with it being coated

Yes, coated will work too.

And you just need to tap in the muzzle end enough to imprint the grooves and tap out to measure.

If groove diameter is .355" to .356", then .356" sized bullets should work.

I am thinking perhaps the barrel bore needs to be cleaned/leading removed with chore boy and have a closer look at the bore.

Wrap copper strand (Check with magnet to make sure it's not copper coated steel) around old bore brush like below and after several passes back and forth, your leading should be removed.

lordpaxman · May 4, 2022

Zap01! said:
I’m just assuming I am doing something wrong New to reloading lol but I might try to give them a call and see what they think of the situation

Is plated or full metal jacket more forgiving then lead ?

From the bullet torture test you posted I think the coating is in good shape. I try to look on the bright side of things, and if leading (if that’s what it is) is your only concern, there are far greater problems that can occur from reloading.
I find plated or jacketed is easier to reload as it’s more difficult, but not impossible to shave or break the plating or jacket. You can overcrimp and damage the coatings - not sure how you crimp but it is another point in the process that may cut into the coating.
A kinetic bullet puller isn’t too expensive and may be worthwhile, once you clean the barrel and have a look at the bare metal. @LiveLife makes a good point, if it’s a rough barrel, firing jacketed may help smooth it or show copper deposits due to it’s roughness.
Hang in there, there is an answer, somewhere.

bullseye308 · May 4, 2022

It to be overly personal, but what state are you in? Maybe someone local to you could help in person and save you some trouble.

What I’d do is get a copper chore boy(package will say pure copper-or not) and do like mentioned above and clean the barrel. Then use a good solvent and really clean the rest. Run an oiled patch through the barrel and then drive a lead slug through it and measure. You will be looking for .002” over that ideally in a lead or coated bullet for a good seal and unless the bullet is too hard it should minimize any leading.

An example I’m proud of and took a good bit of work to get to it is my Ruger GP-100 357. I’m shooting a Lee 158 SWC tumble lube design tumble lubed and cast from wheel weights and I size it .3585(opened up my sizer a bit) over 5.0 grains of bullseye. That barrel has 6500+ rounds since cleaned and unless I change something I’ll never clean the barrel again. It has a grey wash and 0 buildup and is self cleaning with that load.

The point of that is it is doable and can work great, once you find what the gun likes. I also shoot only powder coated in my Glocks, 9mm 1911s, and an 8” 9mm AR pistol with 0 leading.

The first thing is find out your barrel diameter, procure bullets of the correct diameter, and then work on a load that is accurate at a level of recoil you like with an acceptable level of accuracy for your needs. That’s the fun(and aggravation) it it.

BJung · May 4, 2022

I former cast bullet vendor named Darma recommended to me years ago to slug my barrel. I loose bullet will effect accuracy and cause leading. And, as mentioned, you should slug your barrel. The easiest method I've read online is to find a black powder shooter, air rifle shooter, or fisherman to find pure lead. Then, drill a shallow hole into a used 2x4 the diameter just larger that your bore. Melt the lead in your laddle and pour the molten lead into that hole. Dig it out. The grease that slug and force it through your barrel. I use a flat punch to start the slug and after it's in the bore, I switch to a wooden dowel. The a handgun, you could probably get away with a broken wooden arrow shaft or a chopstick. Then, find a micrometer and measure the slug. I am guessing that your bore is .357 if you're getting leading.

Zap01! · May 4, 2022

bullseye308 said:
It to be overly personal, but what state are you in? Maybe someone local to you could help in person and save you some trouble.

What I’d do is get a copper chore boy(package will say pure copper-or not) and do like mentioned above and clean the barrel. Then use a good solvent and really clean the rest. Run an oiled patch through the barrel and then drive a lead slug through it and measure. You will be looking for .002” over that ideally in a lead or coated bullet for a good seal and unless the bullet is too hard it should minimize any leading.

An example I’m proud of and took a good bit of work to get to it is my Ruger GP-100 357. I’m shooting a Lee 158 SWC tumble lube design tumble lubed and cast from wheel weights and I size it .3585(opened up my sizer a bit) over 5.0 grains of bullseye. That barrel has 6500+ rounds since cleaned and unless I change something I’ll never clean the barrel again. It has a grey wash and 0 buildup and is self cleaning with that load.

The point of that is it is doable and can work great, once you find what the gun likes. I also shoot only powder coated in my Glocks, 9mm 1911s, and an 8” 9mm AR pistol with 0 leading.

The first thing is find out your barrel diameter, procure bullets of the correct diameter, and then work on a load that is accurate at a level of recoil you like with an acceptable level of accuracy for your needs. That’s the fun(and aggravation) it it.

Ohio about 20 miles from Cincinnati

Zap01! · May 4, 2022

LiveLife said:
Yes, coated will work too.

And you just need to tap in the muzzle end enough to imprint the grooves and tap out to measure.

If groove diameter is .355" to .356", then .356" sized bullets should work.

I am thinking perhaps the barrel bore needs to be cleaned/leading removed with chore boy and have a closer look at the bore.

Wrap copper strand (Check with magnet to make sure it's not copper coated steel) around old bore brush like below and after several passes back and forth, your leading should be removed.

Couldn’t find any Chore boy locally so I ordered some but I clean the it the best I could with a 45 brush it looks really clean to me pictures really don’t do it justice

Leading issue 9 mm Luger Any help ?

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