.41 Magnum vs. .45 Colt

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I assume Ruger only but the HMS 325 grain bear load shoots a bit softer than full (Ruger) power Buffalo Bore +P.

Per HMS:

45 Colt HSM-45C-7-N 325 grain, HCL Wide Flat Nose Gas Check Velocity:1155FPM, Energy: 963FPE (Handgun)

https://hsmammunition.com/bear-load/

I love their Cowboy loads and their Bear loads in my .45-70 Gov. and .45 Colt and in .44 Magnum. But, just saying, bigger holes or more better :).

3C
 
Because the Blackhawk was built for it and it can easily operate at modern performance levels. And there is a need for the huge 325 grain HCL bullets it can throw. That is your answer.

Why try to make a smaller caliber, that uses much higher pressures to exceed a larger bore and that larger bore can match them or better them at lower operating pressures even at so called +P pressure?

3C
 
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I'll prefix this by saying that both of these calibers from S&W are on my 2022 radar. I'm going to end up most likely with both a Model 25 and a Model 57. So, what's the difference between the two.? Recoil is not an issue, I'd just like to have some feedback as to peoples' perceptions of both wheel guns.
I'm surprised it took to the 3rd page for pictures to appear. As for the differences between the two, if you're staying within the realm of S&W revolvers, think of the M25 in .45 Colt as a big-bore .38 Special. Low pressure, low velocity, but still effective. The M25 won't tolerate hot loads for long, 1000 fps is about the limit for a 250 grain bullet and maybe 900 fps for a 300 grain, if you want the gun to last a while. The M57/58, are more like .357 Magnum Magnums. You can launch 210 grain bullets all day at 1400 fps. I enjoy shooting both. The .45 Colt doesn't punish your shooting hand nearly as much as .41M will.
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Good subject matter.
I have owned at least four .45LC S&W revolvers, plus two .41 Mag S&W revolvers (between 4 and 6" barrels).
At a certain point, I decided that owing both was somewhat foolish
After much shooting and consideration, and it wasn't easy...I decided to go with the .45LC, and sold my M-57 .41 Mags.
Definitely wasn't without some pain.
But I am pretty sure I made the right choice....for me.
YMMV.
 
For HSM they do in fact recommend the Ruger Blackhawk and not much else.

https://hsmammunition.com/faqs/

From their FAQ:
___________________

45 Colt ammunition OTHER than Cowboy Action ammunition is for use ONLY in the OLD STYLE LARGE FRAME Ruger Blackhawk (post 1973, not the pre 1973 3-screw) including the ORIGINAL Ruger Vaquero and Ruger Bisley version of the Blackhawk, the Thompson/Center Contender, the Magnum Research BFR, or any firearm chambered in 454 Casull or 460 S&W including the Taurus Raging Judge.

It is NOT for the NEW STYLE SMALL FRAME Ruger Blackhawk and its variants like the NEW Vaquero or the New Flat-top Blackhawks.

It is NOT suitable for the Colt Single Action Army, Colt Cowboy, Colt Anaconda or Ruger Redhawk, Taurus Judge, any Smith and Wesson revolvers including the Governor or any vintage or replica firearms.

____________________

3C
 
I still just don't understand why people try to turn a 45 colt or even a 41 magnum into a 44 magnum

Validation. Outside of the specialty cartridges... 454 Casull, .460, 500, et al... the .44MAG is still the top billing. Although I like the .41, I don't try to make it into a .44MAG... at least, not anymore. Same same with the .45 Colt. Yes, I have an older Ruger Vaquero that can take the Ruger-only .45 Colt loads... but why, unless you just have to have that power? It is much the same as some in the 10mm camp, trying to compare it to the .41MAG.

The .41MAG is a great cartridge for what it is... as is the .44MAG, the .45 Colt, the 10mm, and so on. If you need more pistol than what each of those is willing to safely offer, then you need to find another pistol.
 
Always liked both. Have three .45 Colt's, no 41's tho. For some reason, was always on the lookout for the Colt's. Just like the way they shoot with my handloads. Never had any factory rounds thru any of mine. No flies on the .41 mag, just didn't get around to obtaining one.
 
For HSM they do in fact recommend the Ruger Blackhawk and not much else.

https://hsmammunition.com/faqs/

From their FAQ:
___________________

45 Colt ammunition OTHER than Cowboy Action ammunition is for use ONLY in the OLD STYLE LARGE FRAME Ruger Blackhawk (post 1973, not the pre 1973 3-screw) including the ORIGINAL Ruger Vaquero and Ruger Bisley version of the Blackhawk, the Thompson/Center Contender, the Magnum Research BFR, or any firearm chambered in 454 Casull or 460 S&W including the Taurus Raging Judge.

It is NOT for the NEW STYLE SMALL FRAME Ruger Blackhawk and its variants like the NEW Vaquero or the New Flat-top Blackhawks.

It is NOT suitable for the Colt Single Action Army, Colt Cowboy, Colt Anaconda or Ruger Redhawk, Taurus Judge, any Smith and Wesson revolvers including the Governor or any vintage or replica firearms.

____________________

3C
Pressure-wise, it's right there with Hodgdon's starting load at 18,000CUP. Of course, without knowing what powders are used, we have no way of estimating the pressure of the HSM load.

Hodgdon H110 0.452" 1.680" 21.0 1,109 18,100 CUP

It's interesting that they exclude the Anaconda, which is at least as strong as the Blackhawk and the Redhawk, which is measurably stronger, by 20,000psi.
 
I still just don't understand why people try to turn a 45 colt or even a 41 magnum into a 44 magnum but I guess I'm just as guilty but in the other direction I like lighter loads now

Because we can and its fun. I wouldn't say my heavier 45 Colt loads are on the same level as 44 mag, but they get the job done when hunting.
 
Pressure-wise, it's right there with Hodgdon's starting load at 18,000CUP. Of course, without knowing what powders are used, we have no way of estimating the pressure of the HSM load.

Hodgdon H110 0.452" 1.680" 21.0 1,109 18,100 CUP

It's interesting that they exclude the Anaconda, which is at least as strong as the Blackhawk and the Redhawk, which is measurably stronger, by 20,000psi.

They are excluding the Redhawk it seems also? Who knows, perhaps they have incomplete or CYA information and of which they may not be the author thereof. It is well enough known that the full size two screw Blackhawk can handle the "Ruger" loads as you of course know. And even those loads are not all that hot compared to the .41 Magnum and .44 Magnum, both of which operate at higher pressures. The Blackhawk .45Colt is not even breathing hard at the +P recommended loads from HMS.

I understand and appreciate .44 Special and .44 Magnum and .357 etc. But all these 'tweener cartridges like the .41 Magnum that has fairly high operating pressure just to make a smaller hole-------. I guess it makes sense or it would not be. Not belittling the cartridge really, just do not see it filling a need for me.

3C
 
I have been loading 45 Colt since 1955. 44 Mag since 1960. 41 Mag was for only a few years and I lost interest. I had a 25 but wouldn’t go hot with it. The book Ruger/TC loads are reserved for those guns.
Since I have both a 94 Win and a Marlin in 44 to go with my Super and 29-2 I’ve left the Colt rest and only load a few for deer in my Blackhawk and some cowboy loads to play with in my Old Army/Howell conversion. I was a member of the American Reloaders Assn and followed Dan Cotterman and Dick Casull and in the beginning thought they were nuts, blowing up perfectly good SAAs. It took the perfection of the NAA to make it happen safely. I just came across an old Shooting Times with a head to head test of 44 v 45. I’ll admit I did some stunts similar but just never got into seriously hot ridding the 45. To each his own. If I had the desire now I’d buy a 454 in a NAA and a Bighorn or Puma.
I’ll stick with the 44 which has never let me down.
 
I'm surprised it took to the 3rd page for pictures to appear. As for the differences between the two, if you're staying within the realm of S&W revolvers, think of the M25 in .45 Colt as a big-bore .38 Special. Low pressure, low velocity, but still effective. The M25 won't tolerate hot loads for long, 1000 fps is about the limit for a 250 grain bullet and maybe 900 fps for a 300 grain, if you want the gun to last a while. The M57/58, are more like .357 Magnum Magnums. You can launch 210 grain bullets all day at 1400 fps. I enjoy shooting both. The .45 Colt doesn't punish your shooting hand nearly as much as .41M will.
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Holy smokes! Has any one of those guns ever been fired?
 
Holy smokes! Has any one of those guns ever been fired?
Many times. I've had the M57 the longest of the three, I've probably put 250-300 rounds through it in the last couple of years. The M58 was ANIB when I got it, had been a safe queen its entire life (since 1967).I've shot it maybe 150 rounds in the 1-1/2 years I've had it. I bought the M25-5 the day after New Year this year and have put about 250 rounds through it. It's a fun gun to shoot, less recoil than the .41's. I don't think it had been fired but a very few times when I found it at a gun show. I have the original stocks for it, but no box, tools, etc. Same with the M57, no box or tools, and it had non-factory stocks when I got it, different from the ones in the picture. It's also an "S" SN, like the M58, and it had been shot a fair amount. It also had the vented rib on it when I got it. I reload, so finding ammo isn't a big issue.

All my S&W's are similar condition guns, and I try to take good care of them, while enjoying what they were made to do. Sort of like having a vintage Jaguar; you keep it clean and polished, and now and again run a tank of gas through it, but drive it so you don't end up in a ditch somewhere.
 
It's one of those things where criticism comes from those who never tried what they are disrespecting. My 41 Magnum is unquestionably more user friendly than my 44 Magnum. That is not scientific, but the guns and loads are pretty comparable. I like my 44 Mag too and usually shoot both calibers at a range trip.
 
I always felt like the 41 magnum gave you 95% of the power of a 44 magnum with only about 80% of the recoil, which is a nice tradeoff. Bullet selection and availability is just so much greater with the 44 that I still think it's a better choice. But I still have several of each that I shoot regularly.
 
I always felt like the 41 magnum gave you 95% of the power of a 44 magnum with only about 80% of the recoil, which is a nice tradeoff. Bullet selection and availability is just so much greater with the 44 that I still think it's a better choice. But I still have several of each that I shoot regularly.
I bought some ammo when I got my first 41 Magnum and still have most of it. The 41 shoots lead bullets and XTPs, no problem. I reload, so the cartridge is a good fit for me.
 
I always felt like the 41 magnum gave you 95% of the power of a 44 magnum with only about 80% of the recoil, which is a nice tradeoff. Bullet selection and availability is just so much greater with the 44 that I still think it's a better choice. But I still have several of each that I shoot regularly.

It really does just that - but suffered (my opinion) from bad market timing when it was released.

My dad, now into his 70s, bought a 41 Blackhawk when they first hit the scene. Made him put his 357 away. When I was old enough, I bought 44s, he just smirked at me. As I gained wisdom, I found the 41 and started buying ‘em.
To my way of thinking, the 41 offers a good weight range of bullets (170-250) that *will* do 95% of what a 44 can do. It’s just svelte in that way.
 
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