new AR15, failure to feed issues

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The Winchester white box is marketed under the name Winchester USA, The generic Remington is marketed under the name UMC and even Federal is in the game marketing under the name American Eagle. I seriously doubt any of those names is any different from Walmart than any other major distributor. I have never seen anything to back up any of those claims. All of the stuff is inexpensive and FMJ basic generic ammunition. I have shot plenty of all three less a problem. Matter of fact I shot a few boxes of the Winchester USA yesterday in .45 ACP using two different Colt Series 70 1911 guns and never a problem. I have on a few occasions also shot the stuff in .223 Remington in a few of my AR rifles and never a problem. So while the stuff is not match grade ammunition it is also not priced like match grade ammunition.

I would start with trying a few different magazines and then try different ammunition, a box of this and or that. Anyway I would not be to quick to place blame on the ammunition. I would also try before doing anything else bending (ever so slightly) the magazine lips as:
The round it poping out of the magazine to soon. Bend the magazine lips in to match the a working magazine. Take measurements. A few thousandths may be all thats required.
My my money starts with the magazine. The rifle went from working to not working so something has changed?

Ron
 
I tried some of the earlier Wolf .223 and it was underpowered and very dirty, but back then it was the only ammo I could find.
 
...Try some good USGI magazines...
..I was also using new magazines for the first time (Magpul Gen3)...
Magazines are not the problem.

Check the feed ramp, ammo and mags
..I was also using new magazines for the first time (Magpul Gen3)...
Magazines are not the problem.

The round it poping out of the magazine to soon. Bend the magazine lips in to match the a working magazine. Take measurements. A few thousandths may be all thats required.
..I was also using new magazines for the first time (Magpul Gen3)...
Magazines are not the problem. The Magpul lips are not bent, nor can they be.

I would also try before doing anything else bending (ever so slightly) the magazine lips...My my money starts with the magazine.
..I was also using new magazines for the first time (Magpul Gen3)...
Magazines are not the problem. Mag lips are not bent, nor can they be.

The rifle went from working to not working so something has changed?
Yes. The extractor spring failed. It's not the magazines.

This is why I advise upgrading an extractor spring of unknown origin as soon as possible. When it does fail and someone new to the malfunction asks what's going on, the problem gets misdiagnosed, wasting the owner's time.
 
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. I switched ammo (GECO DTX .223) and fired 25 rounds without a failure, so I suspect the problem is specific to the ammo I was using.

I suspect you're right that it was the ammo.

I wouldn't throw it away just yet however.

I'd be willing to bet after another 500 rounds or so after your carbine is nice and broken in, it may run just fine.
 
@MistWolf I'm curious what led you to suspect the extractor! I went back to the range today with the same ammo, same magazines (now numbered), and freshly cleaned and lubed rifle. I was able to reproduce the failure half a dozen times, and indeed the problem is failure to extract. After locking the bolt back, dropping the mag, and clearing the fresh round (jammed against the old cartridge), the old cartridge extracted fine with a manual cycle of the bolt. The very first failure looked like a double feed, but it was a new round stuck against a partially extracted case.

From the original poster. While he managed to switch ammo and fire a few rounds successfully thereafter, it won’t make up for a bad spring.
 
Ammo is a huge variable, and one that gets painted with an over-broad brush all too often.

"WWB" is a term coined by consumers to refer to the packaging.
This is the venerable product Midway used to sell for $3.75 back in the day (as in a decade before arfcom even existed)
ca51271fbda4b335817a4a7d56f5cbbd.jpg
The 'later' incarnation looks like this:
95096m3_ts.jpg
Now, the box store version used to look like this:
winchester-usa-white-box-556mm-nato-55gr-fmj-rifle-ammo-180-rounds-1638152-1.jpg
And these:
WINWM193200+20.jpg
Some of those at the box stores, from the "beforetimes" (that's like 5 years ago on arfcom) were not the best performing. However, people were also conflating these (which were not always the best)
image877724-9d1e8dc6c4bdbfab6161ad2fffed245d.jpg
These have not been very consistent, either:
020892219816a__36463.1595521014.jpg
So, "which" kind of "white box" ammo matters, too. Winchester had some "no logo" M193 55gr ball in plain white boxes--that stuff was legit ammo.
 
This statement right here-


Experience troubleshooting ARs shows that when this malfunction reads its ugly head, it’s a bad extractor spring.

I picked up a really nice AR15A4 that the owner stated that it was short stroking on all the ammo he tried. I traded a couple of cases of 9mm that I could afford to trade away.

I could get failures by just running ammo through it by cycling the slide. The first thing I did was a thorough cleaning. I swapped BCG's and GTG! No more FTF's. I disassembled the BCG and found a tiny O-ring assembled with the Extractor Spring! Supposedly to insure 100% extraction with high pressure ammo. At the range I was getting some FTF's on all the AMMO I had. After removing that tiny 0-ring, 100% zero failures!

Check for an 0-ring fit over the extractor spring. Remove it and give it a try, you don't need it!

Smiles,
 
I had that problem switched in a BCM bolt, fixed it. Another time an AR needed a heavier buffer weight to slow extraction. That worked also May just need extractor and spring.
 
Quick update. After a long break from shooting the AR, I finally made it back to the range. I'd replaced the extractor spring with this one:
https://www.brownells.com/aspx/search/productdetail.aspx?sid=10818&pid=4840

But immediately had FTE with the WWB ammo, and other brands worked fine (Geco, Wolf steel case, Federal AE). To be clear, I'm not blaming the ammo. Today I swapped in a FailZero BCG and it ran all of the above ammo without any issue.

I'm put the original BCG in a 300blk pistol and it ran fine in that gun, so maybe I'm done trying to figure out the issue.
 
I don’t know man, when I build an AR it needs to shoot from Range pick up/dig out russian steel ammo with rust to black hills match grade ammo.

sure sure I’m exaggerating a little, but does needs to run the cheap stuff.

Then you have to tune the rifle for such. Like a carbine gas 16".

You can forget about 18" rifle. Especially with a lightweight carrier.
 
OP’s also comes standard with a semi-carrier.
Hmmm. what are the chances that if he threw a FA BCG it would run without issue? Also curious as to what kind of ejection OP is getting with the potentially suspect ammo.

I have one semi auto carrier and I was shooting some PMC "Bronze" .223 and had issues with it, wont buy again. I had a case of it and couldn't wait to get through all of it but I also suspected the SA BCG. Although I've never had any problems with AR15's being ammo sensitive before or since, but I would take a case of Wolf MC .223 over a case of PMC Bronze any day. WWB Q3131 is hot M193 spec ammo and is quality imo so I wouldn't necessarily swear off all "WWB". The .223 white box might be a different story....

I have heard people speak ill of the "WWB" before and it's probably the most commonly griped about ammo that I've seen, but I have shot a truckload of it in my AR's without issue. Is it a .223/5.56 thing? I know that I hate 9mm WWB, it cycles just fine but spent cases always just drool out the ejection port or spit straight back into the face.
 
Quick update. After a long break from shooting the AR, I finally made it back to the range. I'd replaced the extractor spring with this one:
https://www.brownells.com/aspx/search/productdetail.aspx?sid=10818&pid=4840

But immediately had FTE with the WWB ammo, and other brands worked fine (Geco, Wolf steel case, Federal AE). To be clear, I'm not blaming the ammo. Today I swapped in a FailZero BCG and it ran all of the above ammo without any issue.

I'm put the original BCG in a 300blk pistol and it ran fine in that gun, so maybe I'm done trying to figure out the issue.
That's the right spring :). They can be a pain to install and easy to damage. Make sure it's not damaged. Next, check the ejector. Also, give us a clear description of the malfunction. Having an "FTE" doesn't tell us much.

ARs can develop multiple problems. I've had to replace the extractor spring, gas rings, gas tube, fix a leaky gas key & gas block and an over sized gas port- all on the same AR- before it would run reliably
 
Also, give us a clear description of the malfunction. Having an "FTE" doesn't tell us much.
I don't have a photo from my rifle, but it looks pretty much like the image below that I found online. The new round feeding in gets bent and has to be discarded.

03-Failure-to-extract-color-bg.jpg
 
Try with a different magazine. Such malfunctions are almost always magazine related.
Didn't see the case in the chamber. :oops: If it did it after the extractor was changed, a dirty chamber is the most likely cause.
 
Try with a different magazine. Such malfunctions are almost always magazine related.
Didn't see the case in the chamber. :oops: If it did it after the extractor was changed, a dirty chamber is the most likely cause.
If you look carefully, you’ll see a spent case stuck in the chamber. That’s never caused by the magazine.

This is an extractor issue. If this occurred after a new Colt spring was installed, either the extractor itself is out of spec, the extractor spring was damaged on install (something I’ve experienced myself) or both.

If this was simply a dirty/sticky/undersized chamber or over gassing, the extractor would have torn the rim off.
 
From the photo, the spent cartridge is still in the chamber. This is an “FTE”, Failure To Extract. It has NOTHING to do with the magazine. This is caused by either an Extractor issue, or a sticky or tight chamber(case swell getting lodged).

There is also an “FTE”, Failure To Eject. Which is typically a gas issue, but could also be extractor/ejector problem.

Now, if the spect cartridge IS ejected & it’s jamming like the picture with a new round, the problem could be magazine, or feed ramp(I’ve seen this a good deal, with flashing material on the m4 feed ramps).

Getting a whole lot of people yelling it’s this or that without a real understanding.
(MistWolf is one of the few who gets it)
 
I don't have a photo from my rifle, but it looks pretty much like the image below that I found online. The new round feeding in gets bent and has to be discarded.

View attachment 1077358
Well alrighty. Now you mention "looks pretty much like" so would that include a spent round in the chamber as in the image you posted or in your case is the previously fired round being ejected as in empty chamber?

Ron
 
Well alrighty. Now you mention "looks pretty much like" so would that include a spent round in the chamber as in the image you posted or in your case is the previously fired round being ejected as in empty chamber?
It's failing to extract the spent round, as in the photo. I'll take a close look at the extractors on the two BCGs I have (one works fine, the other doesn't) and see if I can see any difference.
 
So yeah.. no mystery here. It’s either an extractor issue(tension or extractor claw itself damaged/worn otherwise), or sticky chamber(tight chamber, excess pressure in rounds getting stuck). That’s it! No magazine issues, pressure issues, buffer issues. Those items I just listed are the only 2 items which will cause a complete failure to extract a spent cartridge from the chamber, and pick up another round from the mag to jam into the spent case.

In the future, if you explain exactly what is happening, it will at least help us narrow now causes. This way you won’t get so many people yelling out one after the other, “It’s the MAGAZINE!), even though they have no clue! Although.. some of them are likely to say it’s the mag anyway.
 




Yes. The extractor spring failed. It's not the magazines.

This is why I advise upgrading an extractor spring of unknown origin as soon as possible. When it does fail and someone new to the malfunction asks what's going on, the problem gets misdiagnosed, wasting the owner's time.
I don't know if you have another bolt assembly, but if you do, try that. If problem still occurs its not the extractor.

90% of all AR feeding problems I've had have been magazines. 5-6% have been gas issues. 3% have been blown primers or other material finding its way into the chamber. 1% has been bolt failure of some sort (guess I've been lucky.) The other <1% was some dumb@$$ putting a rifle length recoil spring in a carbine length tube. His name was citizenconn.

Good luck figuring it out. It can be irksome to troubleshoot.
citizenconn
 
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