Mark_Mark
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I’ve only heard of Caspian frames, not familiar with then
Staccato 2011s for Law Enforcement Use
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USBP379
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Without doing a bunch of googling I believe a Tanfoglio mag will work with some mods to the mag catch area. Or MBX sells a ready to run mag.
JR24
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Remington bought what was left of Para and rebranded their R1 double stacks, even used some of the old Para employees and equipment, from what I read. The line seems to have died in the bankruptcy.
I had the plane jane R1 double stack 5” in .45 and it was fine, but 2011 style guns are just too wide for my hands, specifically where the thumb safety, grip safety, and one handed shooting interact. In .45 I preferred a Glock 21, which fits me like a glove.
In 9mm I like Wilsons EDC X9 series, or even Sig SAO, for a double stack SAO.
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USBP379
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Many have complained about the grip size. It is still a common complaint with the Staccato.
I think the Caspian was pretty good in this regard but I haven't held one now in years. Anyway that's part of the reason for my earlier comment about a Ruger 1911 hicap that runs on Glock mags. Or P320 mags.
Nighthawk Custom will do a double stack conversion to an existing 1911 :https://www.nighthawkcustom.com/doublestack_upgrade
It's more about the direction the company wanted to go, not the market. I'm curious if Shadow Systems and their idea of what a Glock should be will ever make their way into the L.E. market. They designed the back straps for their Glock clones to alter the grip angle from standard Glock to 1911 and etc. It completely changes the way the pistol points depending on the shooters preference.
It works quite well, I shot one with the standard Glock angle, felt just like my G45 in my hand. I switched to a different back-strap and it pointed much more naturally and the same as my C2. Also, their optic mount doesn't really require an adapter plate. They cost more than Glocks, but not nearly as much as a Staccato.
Mark_Mark
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I just don't see a Gucci Glock ever making the transition.
Course I am sure that I'll be corrected with the fact that Johnny neckbeard, leet operator extraordinare, in Timbuktu was issued one.
JR24
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Not sure about Caspin but I see places like Atlas seem to be moving away from the grip safety on their double stacks, that’d be where I’d have to go if I wanted to get back in that game.
Then again Wilson makes a fine 9mm option in the Experior or EDC X9 that isn’t nearly so wide and still gets a sweet trigger. Though I do wish I could get higher on thr edc X9 grip myself, I don’t know why they designed it to feel more like a Sig to me.
That's exactly what I was thinking when I shot an EDC X9 for the first time. It has a higher bore axis for sure, like my 229 SAO. At least the grip can be changed on the X9..biggest downfall to the Staccato, but my C2 and 229 fit my hand perfectly.
Do you know where their magazines come from? STI pattern?
STI mags will work.
WC uses proprietary mags for the EDC X9s, it's a Mec-Gar mag.
Riomouse911
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Last month I took a 1911/2011 armorers course and saw/held/took down and reassembled a 2011 for the first time.
I was impressed with the Staccato, the fit and finish was top notch. Take down is funky since you had to remove grip screws and washers to get the lower frame apart from the upper frame, but the rest is all 1911.
My only range experience with one wasn’t great. A few years ago (In the STI days) the guy who bought one when he came to work for our office had a jam-fest on the range… so he went home with a $2,200 paperweight and an issued Glock 19. I do not know if it was magazine related, poor lubrication related or shooter related (or combos of them), all I know is it just wasn’t reliable for him that day and our Glock was.
I would buy and carry a Staccato, they do seem to be very well built guns. ($2,400 is to me a bit steep, though .) A lot of younger officers seem to have gravitated to this older single action design, so I see this 1911/2011 equipped with a red-dot trend continuing on for quite some time in the future.
Stay safe.
I was impressed with the Staccato, the fit and finish was top notch. Take down is funky since you had to remove grip screws and washers to get the lower frame apart from the upper frame, but the rest is all 1911.
My only range experience with one wasn’t great. A few years ago (In the STI days) the guy who bought one when he came to work for our office had a jam-fest on the range… so he went home with a $2,200 paperweight and an issued Glock 19. I do not know if it was magazine related, poor lubrication related or shooter related (or combos of them), all I know is it just wasn’t reliable for him that day and our Glock was.
I would buy and carry a Staccato, they do seem to be very well built guns. ($2,400 is to me a bit steep, though .) A lot of younger officers seem to have gravitated to this older single action design, so I see this 1911/2011 equipped with a red-dot trend continuing on for quite some time in the future.
Stay safe.
Mark_Mark
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For Duty, I would rock a Glock, Canik, M&P, CZ, but not a 1911 or Sti Staccato. Want my gun to go bang every time, not Shoot 2” groupsLast month I took a 1911/2011 armorers course and saw/held/took down and reassembled a 2011 for the first time.
I was impressed with the Staccato, the fit and finish was top notch. Take down is funky since you had to remove grip screws and washers to get the lower frame apart from the upper frame, but the rest is all 1911.
My only range experience with one wasn’t great. A few years ago (In the STI days) the guy who bought one when he came to work for our office had a jam-fest on the range… so he went home with a $2,200 paperweight and an issued Glock 19. I do not know if it was magazine related, poor lubrication related or shooter related (or combos of them), all I know is it just wasn’t reliable for him that day and our Glock was.
I would buy and carry a Staccato, they do seem to be very well built guns. ($2,400 is to me a bit steep, though .) A lot of younger officers seem to have gravitated to this older single action design, so I see this 1911/2011 equipped with a red-dot trend continuing on for quite some time in the future.
Stay safe.
JCooperfan1911
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The departments that rock Staccatos love them. You can have it both ways.
Old Dog
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Now, now, Mark -- let's not harken back to the '90s and perpetuate the myth that 1911s cannot be reliable. You can have your cake and eat it too! (gratuitous exclamation point in your honor!) Some of us have 1911s -- and even 2011s -- that both go bang every time AND shoot 2" (or better) groups!
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JR24
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I do wonder if Staccato finally figured out how to produce mags that are reliable out of the box without the tuning they notoriously required.
If so, great! But it does seem they are still quite expensive to buy more, though I’m guessing that’s less painful with LEO or department discounts.
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USBP379
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Who taught the course and what kind of troubleshooting was covered?
TomJ
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Larry Vickers did a pretty detailed podcast regarding the history of STI and Staccato. He discussed the issues STI had with their magazines and the fact that Staccato addressed them. Between my P and C2 I have a lot of rounds through them without a single failure. In regards to 1911's in general (or 1911 type guns), I also own a Dan Wesson 9mm Guardian, 9mm Eco and 45 Vigil, an EDC X9 and X9S and a 45 Nighthawk Custom Talon. The Vigil didn't like my reloads using 230 grain lead bullets (I forget the manufacturer) but other than that all have been reliable, otherwise I wouldn't keep them. I treat them no differently than any other guns in that I shoot them and clean them after each range session. I understand the perception that 1911's can be finicky, but that hasn't been my experience.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?227142-Larry-Vickers-Podcast-Episode-13-Staccato
JR24
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Good to hear, I've also typically not had any issues with 1911 reliability. The couple issues were simply mis tensioned extractors and easy enough to fix myself.
Riomouse911
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Bob Chavez, the primary Gunsmithing instructor at Lassen Community College in Susanville Ca. Bob has teamed up with Clint Armitage at Armitage Tactical, AT arranges and conducts LE armorer and various tactical trainings in Ca for law enforcement, etc.
They covered full takedown, exam and reassembly of 1911/2011, troubleshooting safeties, sear engagement, hammer/firing pin issues, etc. It wasn’t a 1911 gunsmithing class where new parts are fitted, metal welded, etc., thats in the courses taught at LCC in multi-week blocks over the summer
https://gunsmithing.nra.org/find-a-school/
Stay safe.
Mark_Mark
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here me out. Not all cops are trained the same and not all departments are created the same.
1911’s is an experts gun. Light and unforgiving trigger, and the engaging and re-engaging of safety, then the grip. Now with a point and shoot guns with safety built in! everyone is good to go. I would rather every have a “ Glock” then everyone with a Experts gun.
Here in Seattle and same with larger PD’s, the 2020 scumbag riots, they lost a a good chuck of officers. Crime has Skyrocketed and they are hiring anybody with an interest in being a cop. Would you want a rookie with a 1911 getting your back or a plain Jane “Glock”.
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