Tin Foil Waterproof Cartridges

Johnm1 · May 15, 2022

In @beczl s excellent thread about paper cartridge and cap labels he mentioned the following

beczl said:
Cartridges are can be made by normal or combustible paper, skin (animal intestine) and tin foil (water-resistant).

Now that made me think. Modern tin foil is aluminum and I assume sometimes called that only because it replicates the original that was made of tin. I understand the original tin foil was a bit thicker and stiffer.

But the real question is how effective was tin foil in making waterproof cartridges? Did it burn as effectively? Was it consumed? Could it cause problems/damage? Has anyone seen a cartridge made with tin foil? Could it still be used today?

Could modern aluminum foil be substituted? Same questions as the tin foil. Though pure aluminum foil cannot conduct a spark, some aluminum contais alloys of iron/steel and can.

Seemed an interesting topic not discussed yet. jim k mentions the use of tin foil in cartridges in this thread on an unrelated topic

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/aluminum-foil-as-a-patch-material.758076/

"Don't confuse the idea of aluminum foil patches with the thin tin foil used to hold the powder on percussion revolver cartridges; that foil would burn up when the powder was ignited."

But that's all my feeble search skill would conjure up.

Thoughts?

hawg · May 15, 2022

They seemed to have worked well for small arms but not for artillery. They were only made for about three years so there must have been a reason. Production costs maybe.

Johnm1 · May 15, 2022

I could see cost being an issue. It appears from what little I’ve read the tin foil was consumed.

FYI - Real tin foil can still be bought.

It’s funny, I’m 61 years old and have always called it tin foil and never thought once why aluminum foil was regularly called Tin Foil.

shoobe01 · May 15, 2022

I know it said "tin" but is it not likely talking about brass foil cartridges like the .577 Snider?

Stamped (not drawn) base, brass or brass/paper case.

I always assumed these were also wax coated as that was the apex of waterproofing back then. I have some old mil-issue (WW1 era I was told) shotgun cartridges in my tiny ammo collection that are paper where the plastic would be today, but it is very very very waxed. To the point that at a glance they look like plastic hulls.

This place has an article with nice photos of a 577/450 Martini foil cartridge sectioned (that is some delicate work!) which is super interesting:
https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/577-450-martini-henry-section/40628

hawg · May 15, 2022

shoobe01 said:
I know it said "tin" but is it not likely talking about brass foil cartridges like the .577 Snider?
View attachment 1078794

Stamped (not drawn) base, brass or brass/paper case.

I always assumed these were also wax coated as that was the apex of waterproofing back then. I have some old mil-issue (WW1 era I was told) shotgun cartridges in my tiny ammo collection that are paper where the plastic would be today, but it is very very very waxed. To the point that at a glance they look like plastic hulls.

This place has an article with nice photos of a 577/450 Martini foil cartridge sectioned (that is some delicate work!) which is super interesting:
https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/577-450-martini-henry-section/40628

No they were tinfoil cartridges made for cap and ball revolvers.

Johnm1 · May 15, 2022

shoobe01 said:
brass foil cartridges like the .577 Snider?

That is just neat! There was a time early in the development of the case when manufacturers were figuring out the drawing and tempering process. I had never seen this workaround.

But I agree with Hawg. There were waterproof tin foil cartridges used for a short time. Made like paper cartridges only using foil instead of paper.

shoobe01 · May 16, 2022

Huh, interested, following. Hoping someone has more details and shares some photos. Tin is a weird one for this. Seen several other antiquated uses of thin brass and brass foils but tin mostly is thicker and used to seal stuff, still used for some cans. Hmm...

JCooperfan1911 · May 16, 2022

There was also catgut cartridges made from intestines, think sausage casings.

hawg · May 16, 2022

shoobe01 said:
Huh, interested, following. Hoping someone has more details and shares some photos. Tin is a weird one for this. Seen several other antiquated uses of thin brass and brass foils but tin mostly is thicker and used to seal stuff, still used for some cans. Hmm...

The internet is lacking on good pics of them. Here's a good read on them. http://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/2015/11/tinfoil-cartridges.html

ShotgunDave · May 17, 2022

Here ya go. Colt was making them for a time.

Jim Watson · May 17, 2022

I don't know if a tin foil C&B cartridge would burn up or blow out of a revolver.
I do know that an aluminum foil cannon cartridge will not; the gun has to be wormed every shot. But it is safer than traditional serge.

Real tin foil is very expensive, charged by the square inch.

shoobe01 · May 17, 2022

Rapidly gets into BP operations stuff beyond me and antiquated ways of talking of systems I don't fully understand, but maybe something useful in these (mostly) contemporary documents:

(despite the way they render with emoji, that appears to be just a forum display issue and the links work fine. Do tell if issues with them)

https://www.google.com/books/editio...e:pinterest.*&pg=RA16-PA5&printsec=frontcover

https://www.google.com/books/editio...-site:pinterest.*&pg=PA11&printsec=frontcover

https://www.google.com/books/editio...-site:pinterest.*&pg=PA84&printsec=frontcover

https://www.google.com/books/editio...site:pinterest.*&pg=PA240&printsec=frontcover

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Samuel_Colt_a_Man_and_an_Epoch/ua6drUVvgfgC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=tin-foil -site

interest.*

Only references another document, you have to do more research work to find that then:
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Smithsonian_studies_in_history_and_techn/M0f0AAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=tin-foil -site

interest.*

Johnm1 · May 18, 2022

ShotgunDave said:
Here ya go. Colt was making them for a time.

View attachment 1079130

The Colt example in the middle looks like an individually wrapped piece of candy.

Thanks for the picture.

gobsauce · May 19, 2022

Johnm1 said:
The Colt example in the middle looks like an individually wrapped piece of candy.

Thanks for the picture.

I thought it looked like a Wrigley's Spearmint Gum.

"Hi ho, Hey Hey, Chew all your troubles away;

Hi ho, Hey Hey, Chew Wrigley's Spearmint Gum"

Tin Foil Waterproof Cartridges

Johnm1

Member

hawg

Member

Johnm1

Member

shoobe01

Member

hawg

Member

Johnm1

Member

shoobe01

Member

JCooperfan1911

member

hawg

Member

ShotgunDave

Member

Jim Watson

Member

shoobe01

Member

Johnm1

Member

gobsauce

Member

Similar threads