Why the Dearth of 32 Caliber Revolvers?

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chicharrones said:
As much as I have liked .32 ACP over the years, there is no getting around the fact that the locked breech .380 ACP pocket pistol boom, that started 15 or so years ago, has all but killed off .32 ACP pistol production.
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When the only companies 15-20 years ago that were making .32 ACP pistols were Beretta, Kel Tec, NAA, and Seecamp and all of them are still making .32 pistols today, it's not fair to say the .380's have killed off .32 pistol production. It certainly isn't convincing companies who make those .380s to offer a .32 version tho and everytime we ask them to make a .32 they must think it was a typo and we meant .22 instead because that's what Ruger done did when I asked for a .32 LCP.

And as much as I’d like a .32 ACP specific revolver, with a short cylinder and frame suited to the cartridge to make a shorter gun, I guess that’s just a unicorn fantasy of a gun.
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When a .32 Long wadcutter is about the same length as .32 ACP is it really doesn't make much sense to make a revolver just for .32 ACP and the lighter bullet. I too was into the idea of a 5 shot .32 ACP revolver, but I do think a wadcutter is better and the Lucky Gunner video on .32 proved that they have acceptable penetration and .32 wadcutters are pretty cheap. Just need to get more retailers to stock them.

The only thing I can say is if you like .32 magnum or .327 mag revolvers, snap a few up while they’re still making them and reload or buy ammo when you see it. This is pretty much what I’m trying at the moment.
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I don't see Ruger dropping the .327's they make now. They did drop the Blackhawk version years ago and are only doing a limited run of distributor GP100's in the caliber, but the smaller LCR, SP101, and Single Seven's I think are here to stay. Charter, same thing, they're not ones known to discontinue products. Taurus tho, they introduce and discontinue stuff like pretty quick and IDK how committed they are to the .327 snub they're making. My guess is the lack of ammo available is going to give them cold feet and they'll pull the plug, but the fact that after 10+ years of not making a .327 revolver for the US market for Taurus to do it means they saw some data that told them it's a market that they want to get some share of instead of just letting Ruger gobble it all up.
 
Slamfire said:
I have wondered why 32 caliber pistol and revolver cartridges were ever popular in the first place. Maybe it is due to the small size of the pistols chambered in that cartridge. Wish I had a picture of a K frame next to this I frame. The seller claimed the original owner, a relative, use some sort of Reserve Policeman. This pistol is about the size of a kid's toy pistol.

View attachment 1077868

Recoil with factory ammunition is almost non existent, and factory ammunition moves my gong target plate no more than a .22lr. Which means, when the gong target has a lot of hits, unless I hear the ping, I can't tell if I hit the thing. This is not exactly inspirational for a self defense round. However, I suspect the original owner purchased it because the pistol was so compact, and it was a firearm. Few Cops ever get into gun fights. A shooting bud is an ex Highway Patrol Officer, and I was surprised to find how indifferent the average Cop is to firearms and to shooting the things. If it were not for qualification, few on the Police force would shoot a firearm at all. Bud went to the house of one of his troopers, pulled the Department issued shotgun from parked squad car, and it was rusted shut. It could not be racked!

I occasionally see Pardini's chambered in 32 S&W Long at Bullseye Pistol matches. Pardini's have interchangeable uppers, pop on a new top, stuff in the appropriate magazine, and bang away in a different caliber. The 32 S&W Long is superbly accurate out to 50 yards and the recoil is not much more than a 22 lr. Recoil absolutely is an accuracy killer, everyone's 22 lr scores are higher than with the 45 ACP.

New cartridges are introduced, not so much to benefit the shooter, but to increase profits to the corporation, and so there have been several iterations of Super 32's, Magnum 32's, and as far as I am concerned, they have all been duds. Sure the 32 caliber round can be pushed as fast as a 357 Magnum, but the blast, recoil also goes up, and the fun nature of a 32 cartridge goes away. And, just as the old saying is "There is no replacement for displacement.", if you want to do more than punch holes in paper, that is just as true in cartridges as in combustion engines.
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I think you answered your own question about why the .32 became popular before the .38 did and the same factors we concern ourselves with today were present back then: size, recoil, and effectiveness. Sure, the top break .38 S&W's and clones had been around for decades, but that style of revolver was losing favor over the more robust solid frame swing out cylinders for a duty gun. Even still, the top breaks kept getting made for the civilian market by Iver Johnson and H&R and between a .32 Long and .38 S&W, I'd rather have the .32 Long for the extra shot and the lighter recoil, which given they shared the same frame as the .38 top breaks that meant they would last longer too. For the sold frames, yeah, they could be made quite small and even tho they were small they wouldn't kick like a mule.

I'm not sure if there is a future for the .327 in a handgun. I don't question the power or effect of it, but to the common man it's not going to offer much beyond what .357 does. That said, .327 is better than .38 not just in terms of reduced recoil, but reliability of hollow point expansion from a short barrel, something .38 has struggled with forever. That said, the .327 is going to be very loud compared to .38, but if a reduced pressure load were made, something like a .32 H&R Mag +P or a .327 -P (basically something more than 21K PSI, but way less than 45K PSI) I think it would be the sweet spot. Split the difference and that would be around 33K PSI, which is less than .357 Mag. Of course, this could only be shot in .327 revolvers and what I think would make the .32 H&R a better carry gun than .327 is if it's made with an alloy frame to reduce weight. Problem is, I don't think aluminum frames can handle more than 24k PSI as the .22 Mag runs about that and other than .22 Mag and .38 I don't see Aluminum frames made in other calibers.
 
TTv2 said:
I think you answered your own question about why the .32 became popular before the .38 did and the same factors we concern ourselves with today were present back then: size, recoil, and effectiveness. Sure, the top break .38 S&W's and clones had been around for decades, but that style of revolver was losing favor over the more robust solid frame swing out cylinders for a duty gun. Even still, the top breaks kept getting made for the civilian market by Iver Johnson and H&R and between a .32 Long and .38 S&W, I'd rather have the .32 Long for the extra shot and the lighter recoil, which given they shared the same frame as the .38 top breaks that meant they would last longer too. For the sold frames, yeah, they could be made quite small and even tho they were small they wouldn't kick like a mule.

I'm not sure if there is a future for the .327 in a handgun. I don't question the power or effect of it, but to the common man it's not going to offer much beyond what .357 does. That said, .327 is better than .38 not just in terms of reduced recoil, but reliability of hollow point expansion from a short barrel, something .38 has struggled with forever. That said, the .327 is going to be very loud compared to .38, but if a reduced pressure load were made, something like a .32 H&R Mag +P or a .327 -P (basically something more than 21K PSI, but way less than 45K PSI) I think it would be the sweet spot. Split the difference and that would be around 33K PSI, which is less than .357 Mag. Of course, this could only be shot in .327 revolvers and what I think would make the .32 H&R a better carry gun than .327 is if it's made with an alloy frame to reduce weight. Problem is, I don't think aluminum frames can handle more than 24k PSI as the .22 Mag runs about that and other than .22 Mag and .38 I don't see Aluminum frames made in other calibers.
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I agree! Muzzle blast and noise are a concern for concealed carry guns. Of course there are low flash powders but still a challenge from a short barreled revolver. I think that the .32 Long suffers from the same problem that every 120+ cartridge does, factory liability issues due to the availability of 120+ year old revolvers. In and of itself there is potential there using DEWC at the top end of its pressure range but for some like myself reloads are a no go for Self Defense. The .32 Long would suffer from the same problem the .38 does out of short barrels with modern hollow points, not easy to get the needed velocity for reliable expansion out of the little guy! The best possible potential I believe exists in the .32 H&R level of power and velocity. A good reliable expanding bullet of 100 grains or more with its light recoil and low muzzle blast is a good option for some. The extra round or two is a bonus.
 
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TTv2 said:
I too was into the idea of a 5 shot .32 ACP revolver, but I do think a wadcutter is better and the Lucky Gunner video on .32 proved that they have acceptable penetration and .32 wadcutters are pretty cheap. Just need to get more retailers to stock them.
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Planned on using 32H&R for my recently acquired S&W 432PD but have plenty of .32 S&WL wadcutters for practice and pocket carry in the interim; the Lucky Gunner results made me feel better about that.
 
TTv2 said:
When the only companies 15-20 years ago that were making .32 ACP pistols. . .

Taurus tho, they introduce and discontinue stuff like pretty quick and IDK how committed they are to the .327 snub they're making. My guess is the lack of ammo available is going to give them cold feet and they'll pull the plug, but the fact that after 10+ years of not making a .327 revolver for the US market for Taurus to do it means they saw some data that told them it's a market that they want to get some share of instead of just letting Ruger gobble it all up.
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Taurus. Good call. They made the TCP-732 and PT-132 back in that time frame. I bought my TCP-732 in early 2012 out of what appeared to be the last run sold in the USA.

Stepping it up a size makes me think of other .32 ACP pistols that made it into the 21st century that are no longer in production or not really imported into the US. Like the aforementioned PT-132, Sig P232, and Bersa Thunder. Of course guns like this were/are also sold in .380. And those sized guns in .380 are pretty much being pushed aside by poly framed 9mm pistols.
 
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TTv2 said:
I don't see Ruger dropping the .327's they make now. They did drop the Blackhawk version years ago and are only doing a limited run of distributor GP100's in the caliber, but the smaller LCR, SP101, and Single Seven's I think are here to stay. Charter, same thing, they're not ones known to discontinue products. Taurus tho, they introduce and discontinue stuff like pretty quick and IDK how committed they are to the .327 snub they're making. My guess is the lack of ammo available is going to give them cold feet and they'll pull the plug, but the fact that after 10+ years of not making a .327 revolver for the US market for Taurus to do it means they saw some data that told them it's a market that they want to get some share of instead of just letting Ruger gobble it all up.
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With Charter Arms stepping up their small framed .32 from 5 to 6 shots, well that's the only reason I even wanted that gun. The Taurus .327 is a 6-shooter, but on the 856 cylinder and frame. Which gives me pause to bother with that over the 6-shot .38 Special in the same size.

Sure would be nice for Taurus to make a 6-shot .327 in the slightly smaller 85 frame size, as I'd probably buy one.
 
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wcwhitey said:
View attachment 1078486
Gunshow find this morning, all 3 boxes for $40.
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Good find and good price. For some reason the ammo makers refuse to offer any decent field loads for 32 mag. They only want to sell SD ammo. When the 32 mag came out there were two loads from Federal. An 85gr load at around 1100fps and a 100gr lead bullet load pushed to around 950fps. For most time the lead bullet load was far more useful. I'm just glad I can reload for my 32 caliber guns.

Oops! I guess it was a 95gr bullet. Its been a long time since I have seen a box of lead 32 mag loads. And those came in 50 round boxes. But so did the 85gr jacketed load.
 
ThomasT said:
You are correct. I had read somewhere else it was a Pocket Positive. No matter, he put it to good use.
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The Pocket Positive was a tiny revolver. The 32 Police Positive was smaller than a 38 Police Positive, but larger than the Pocket Positive.

This is a 32 Police Positive.

pmk4QBifj.jpg




This photo illustrates the size differences between a 38 Police Positive Special at the top, a 32 Police Positive in the middle, and a Pocket Positive at the bottom.

pnfLH2eUj.jpg




For those of you who do not know who Paul Kersey was, he was the title character in the Death Wish series of movies played by Charles Bronson. In the first movie he used a nickle plated 32 Police Positive that had been given to him by a friend.

P.S. Kersey brought the pistol with him when he flew from Texas to New York City. He packed it in his suitcase. This was long before airlines began running luggage through an X-Ray machines.
 
Thanks Driftwood that was good information. It sounds the pocket positive is probably similar in size to the I-Frame 32 I just got a couple of months ago with a 3" barrel.

Driftwood Johnson said:
P.S. Kersey brought the pistol with him when he flew from Texas to New York City. He packed it in his suitcase.
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Paul Kersey wasn't in Texas. He was in Tuscon Arizona.

"Paul fights back with a homemade weapon, causing the mugger to run away, while Paul is shaken and energized by the encounter. Paul's boss sends him to Tucson, Arizona, to see Ames Jainchill, a client with a residential development project. A few days later, Paul is invited to dinner by Ames at his gun club. Ames is impressed with Paul's pistol marksmanship at the target range. Paul reveals that he was a conscientious objector during the Korean War, when he served as a combat medic. He had been taught to handle firearms by his hunter-father; but after the senior Kersey was mortally wounded by a second hunter (who mistook Paul's father for a deer), Paul's mother made him swear never to use guns again. Paul is successful in helping Ames plan his residential housing development. Ames drives Paul back to Tucson Airport and presents Paul with a gift for his work on the development, which he places into Paul's checked luggage".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Wish_(1974_film)
 
ThomasT said:
Paul Kersey wasn't in Texas. He was in Tuscon Arizona.
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Ooops. I was working from memory, did not bother to look it up.

ThomasT said:
It sounds the pocket positive is probably similar in size to the I-Frame 32 I just got a couple of months ago with a 3" barrel.
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Nope. The 32 Police Positive is about the same size as an I frame S&W. At the top of this photo is a S&W I frame 32 Regulation Police. In the middle is the 32 Police Positive. At the bottom is the little Pocket Positive. The Pocket Positive was named such because it was easy to conceal in a pocket.


pmiFYRRuj.jpg
 
Ok thanks for the photo. I almost won an auction on the pocket positive in 32 but was outbid at the last minute. I don't think I ever saw another one that I wanted. Neat looking little gun though. I guess maybe Bearcat size?
 
Driftwood Johnson said:
Ooops. I was working from memory, did not bother to look it up.



Nope. The 32 Police Positive is about the same size as an I frame S&W. At the top of this photo is a S&W I frame 32 Regulation Police. In the middle is the 32 Police Positive. At the bottom is the little Pocket Positive. The Pocket Positive was named such because it was easy to conceal in a pocket.


View attachment 1078511
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How do the Pocket Positive's compare in size to the .32 S&W and S&W Long top breaks made by H&R and Iver Johnson?
 
fxvr5 said:
Why would you compare the recoil of watered down 327 FM loads to full powered 38 Special loads? Don't believe in fair comparisons?
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That's not watered down, that's just a lighter bullet and one that is frequently cited as a top defensive load for snub .327 revolvers, just like how +P is frequently the top recommended choice for snubs.
 
TTv2 said:
How do the Pocket Positive's compare in size to the .32 S&W and S&W Long top breaks made by H&R and Iver Johnson?
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It’s hard to describe. I was this close the buying one a few weeks ago and fondled it for quite a while. Great little gun but I was looking for a shooter/range gun. It was just small enough that my big hands thought it was going to be hard to shoot well. It felt like a 2/3 scale Detective Special. It was cool as hell and although this one was rough to the eye mechanically perfect. If it were prettier (example not the model) I would have grabbed it for the collection. They are all Colt and very nice although small revolvers.
 
TTv2 said:
That's not watered down, that's just a lighter bullet and one that is frequently cited as a top defensive load for snub .327 revolvers, just like how +P is frequently the top recommended choice for snubs.
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Of what 85 grain load are you talking about?

Federal's 85 grain loads are watered down. Their 85 grain loads are at 1400 fps. That's 100 fps slower than their heavier 100 grain bullets.

Federal's full powered 327 Federal is a 100 grain bullet at 1500 fps.
Speer's full powered 327 Federal is a 100 grain bullet at 1500 fps.
 
fxvr5 said:
Of what 85 grain load are you talking about?

Federal's 85 grain loads are watered down. Their 85 grain loads are at 1400 fps. That's 100 fps slower than their heavier 100 grain bullets.

Federal's full powered 327 Federal is a 100 grain bullet at 1500 fps.
Speer's full powered 327 Federal is a 100 grain bullet at 1500 fps.
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It's less than the velocity of the 100 grain loads, but it's still a powerful load meant for self defense, same as .38 Special +P is meant for self defense.

When it comes to using a light snub for defense I'm going to choose the load that I shoot well with. 85 grains of .327 has less recoil than 125 grains of .38+P.
 
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