Universal Background checks

Do you believe in some type of gun control or do you believe that all gun laws are unconstitutional?

  • Some gun control laws are constitutional

    Votes: 9 23.7%

  • All gun laws are unconstitutional

    Votes: 29 76.3%
  • Total voters
    38
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
P5 Guy said:
When a person has paid her/his debt to society all the rights and privileges of a citizen should be allowed.
Click to expand...
This is a good example of how carelessly chosen terms confuse an issue.

A criminal owes no debt to society; he owes a debt to the victim. That debt is not paid by collecting three squares a day for a couple years, so it is typically never paid. Enduring punishment is unrelated to restitution.

Society does not abrogate the criminal's otherwise natural rights because of some indebtedness. We abrogate his rights because he has demonstrated that he is a danger to the rest of us, and we prefer to let him live, although abrogated, vs simply executing him.

P5 Guy said:
I say if you can vote you can own a firearm.
Click to expand...
Yes, I think there's an excellent case to be made that the natural rights (suffrage, arms, etc) all go together.
 
P5 Guy said:
If a danger to us why is the convicted felon allowed out among us?
Click to expand...
like I said,
edwardware said:
. . . we prefer to let him live, although abrogated, vs simply executing him.
Click to expand...
I don't think we make that choice (execution vs abrogation of rights) very well at all, but we do make it.

I understand, and generally agree with, the idea that at the conclusion of punishment, all of elements of the punishment should conclude. . . but conflating punishment with restitution (and maybe rehabilitation) doesn't help the case.
 
Carl N. Brown said:
The head of the article is Universal Background Checks.

The Bloomberg Everytown UBC where passed is usually a $55 to $65 dollar sin tax on firearms transfers between individuals that creates a Form 4473 firearms transaction form. I call it a sin tax, because Virginia State Police at gun shows charge $5 to do a private transaction BG check. Last I checked, my home state fee for a private firearms transaction BG check was $39, whereas a state and federal BG check at licensed gun dealer is $10.

I call UBC a sin tax because the goal goes beyond assuring the seller that the buyer is not a prohibited person. (a) It creates a 4473 record of the transaction. (b) The fees seem to be set high enough to discourage private transactions with a background check.

I have bought guns for $50 to $80 from dealers with $10 BG checks for rebuild projects. That is tolerable.

I have in the past bought guns from private sellers for parts ($8 for a shotgun missing parts, $12 for a Model 60 .22 rifle without a stock and magazine tube). Paying $39 today for a private BG check would be a deal killer.

(edited switched to laptop after phone went wonky)
Click to expand...

I might answer some of this for you.....I think, if I am understanding you correctly.

After CCW really became a "thing" the state said we could charge up to $100 for the permit, IIRC $30 of it goes to the state. It did not take us long to figure out we could not do it with current staff so we hired a new clerk, had to move a deputy up to do finger prints, and the admin Lt. got stuck with the background checks....and trust me this can be a HUGE pain in the ass. We figure we almost make even....almost.

Now with the changes the state CCW's are a bit less popular and we are not as busy, and some of those people are pulling double duty in other areas as well as just doing carry stuff.

Might help, and hopefully helps you understand your "sin" tax.
 
P5 Guy said:
If a danger to us why is the convicted felon allowed out among us?
I stand by my statement. The court prescribed a punishment and when fulfilled the convict/felon is released and all the rights and privileges of all we law abiding citizens are her/his due.
Click to expand...

Well I would disagree. As someone that has been around these......folk......more then most here, yea no.

Bad actions can and should carry life long baggage along with them, sadly there is not enough of it. How many times in the news you see.....well that guy had 18 DUI's before he ran over that 9yr old girl. And wondered why the hell he is still driving. You are right he should not have been driving. What most people then think is....Well the cops should not have given his Lic back....guess what we did not, your .gov did. We had nothing to do with it. They let them go, over and over and over again, and we pick them up drunk, beating up the wife, stealing, running......and .gov keeps letting them go.

I have said it before, when you go vote if you see should so and so remain a judge you say NO.
 
lovehappiness22 said:
Do you believe in Universal Background checks, a waiting period before you pick up your gun, red flags to prevent guns from people who would do harm to others? I also believe the second amendment to be a right.

All of these concepts serve to infringe on the exercise of a right. "Universal" in this case doesn't apply to the universe (known and unknown) because the US has no business imposing laws outside of the US, let alone outside of our planet. If certain politicians and special interest groups protected the 2A with the zeal that the others are protected, gun laws would look much different.

The second amendment says

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
In the 18th century, "well regulated" meant in a state ready to fight: Well trained, well organized, well armed. It did not mean in a "regulatory state"

"A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves, and include all men capable of bearing arms. To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of people possess arms". Thomas Jefferson
"I ask, who are the militia? They now consist of the whole people, apart from a few public officials". James Madison

The supreme court has stated that gun control
is constitutional and guns can be regulated.

The SCOTUS has gone back and forth on many issues since its inception, and revisited and changed their opinions on various matters multiple times. Many current events reflect this.

I believe people should be allowed to have guns for self defence along with controls above.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and to wish for anything to be a certain way in what he or she would opine to be a "perfect world".

Do you believe in any gun control regulations to keep America safe along with being allowed to have firearms for self defence or do you believe all gun regulations are unconstitutional?
Click to expand...

We are all individuals. I believe the best way to keep myself and those whom I am responsible for safe is to be armed at all times and to continue to train and maintain my level of proficiency. I believe that anything that gets in the way of this is an infringement. "Gun safety" should apply to the safe use of guns, and the fundamental laws of gun safety (as endorsed by the NRA- who are experts in these matters) which are utilized in every shooting sport as well as in the training of US LE and the mil are an easy-to-understand and all encompassing methodology to gun safety. "Common sense gun laws" in my opinion should cover things like not discharging a firearm within the city limits. Obviously, in an extremis circumstances (like to preserve life in lawful defense), a firearm may NEED to be discharged within the city limits.
 
In reference to small arms and crew served weapons, the purpose of the 2A is to ensure that We The People have access to the same equipment as a professional military.

Select-fire rifles and belt fed machine guns should be freely available to purchase at any local hardware store, in the power tool section. Because that's what they are. Power tools.
 
P5 Guy said:
When a person has paid her/his debt to society all the rights and privileges of a citizen should be allowed.
Click to expand...

In the past the debt owed was greater than it is today, if you are ever required or even asked to pay a debt for one’s crimes, these days…

You know, the old days when doors on your house were not even locked. Hell, you slept with the windows open at night. We didn’t let crazy or habitual criminals roam free. They created a mess, so we needed protection they don’t provide? What a mess.
 
I'm really irritated by the poll question because it's posed in such a way that it equates gun control with gun laws and poses such an absolutist dichotomy as the only options. It's not that simple. It's not a choice of control versus lawlessness. I'm sorry but I refuse to answer the poll question. Frankly, the text of the OP raises some suspicion in my mind of the OP being a troll post, especially with respect to a commonly stated and leftist / liberal misunderstanding of the original meaning and intent of the Second Amendment.
 
Last edited:
Rubone said:
The HIPPA firewall is also why he was able to purchase the weapon used in the killing spree. His mental status is protected and therefor will not show up on a background check. Especially as a juvenile when treated. It relies solely on his answer to the appropriate question which he was apparently untruthful to but no info existed to catch it. The governments built in fail!
Click to expand...
Hi @Rubone,

There is always so much more to these stories. Amongst my first thoughts are "where are the parent(s)? Why weren't they actively questioning why their child brought these things into the house? and truly "what more could have been done to prevent this?".

The tool is a easy mark for blame, after all the media has said so since the mid 90's. The human dynamic not so much, and if the law could preemptively prevent this is it a world we'd be comfortable living in?
 
No ccw permits should exist, constitutional carry should be in all states.

Felons have done their time, should have all rights back, including the ability to defend themselves.

Marijuana is not dangerous and should not disqualify a gun owner in any way.

I'm all for standard capacity magazines and think limiting a citizens ability to 10 or less chances at saving them or their loved ones lives is really a bad idea.

Lastly, most problematic, unless we are willing to institutionalize people like we used to then you will never get that current mental health is a joke profession based on guesses and fanciful assessments.
 
A new member posts in another thread:
Are most people on here chill and laid back? Are most peoples views on guns moderate compared to other gun forums? The gun forums I have been on are full of nutters. I want to enjoy my time here.
Click to expand...
...and then posts this thread. Chill? Laid back? Moderate? Here to enjoy the time? I wonder who's the "nutter" ....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Ru4real
  • Locked
Best 2nd Amendment Analogy and Pro Gun Argument ever written
Replies
24
Views
3K
Flechette
Flechette
3
  • Locked
Earth to the ACLU...
2
Replies
30
Views
2K
chieftain
C
Ryanxia
  • Locked
"Universal background checks"
Replies
7
Views
916
Eb1
Eb1
B
  • Locked
Symantics of the Second Amendment - Opinions?
Replies
16
Views
667
MP5
M
Deanimator
  • Locked
Universal Background Check = Universal Registration.
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Replies
244
Views
9K
GEM
G
Back
Top