AWB sunset... What's next?

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grislyatoms

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Obviously keeping another AWB from happening, but beyond that:

Nationwide CCW?
Repealing the '86(?) machine gun ban?
Repealing the imported rifle ban?

just wondering what you folks think should be worked on next.
 
Nationwide CCW is probably next on the NRAs to do list. I would kind of like to see states with there own strict gun laws worked on, like California and NJ. If the Republicans do as well as many analysts seem to think they will do in November then the sky is the limit in getting rid of foolish gun laws.
 
My vote would be for nationwide CCW, but the Senate will never let that happen, and forget repeal of the 1986 law for the same reason. IMHO, the option in the list that's most viable is allowing imports again.

Edited to correct a keystroke error.
 
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THe import ban makes a good target. There's no difference between the imported & domestically made guns. I just don't think Bush is up to it though. Maybe if he wins reelection he can quietly do it, if enough of us convince him that it would be worth his while. Maybe.

As far as laws go: I think we could make a good case to ease restrictions on silencers, in the name of reducing noise pollution and hearing protection. I mean think of the children!
 
The import ban was only able to be put into effect because the 1968 GCA allows them to restrict guns from being imported based on their "sporting use". Get rid of the "sporting use" provision and you get rid of one way to restrict imports.

Another good idea that I would like see enacted is the ability to carry in National Parks. Just have them follow the laws of the state they're in, just like National Forests currently do. AFAIK, this wouldn't even require a law to be passed, it could be enacted via executive order.
 
National CCW reciprocity would be nice, and certainly a worthy goal.

However, I'd like to float an idea. For a moment, put yourself in the mindset of a politically and idealogically neutral fence-sitter with an open mind- not one of us, but not a raving, slobbering at the mouth gun-grabbing anti.

_____

Ok, ready?


Would you support repealing a law that could help to reduce significant medical costs in the United States at no cost to the taxpayers?

How about a law that would help to foster good will between rural sportsmen and those who are now living in suburbs that are continually expanding into formerly rural areas?

Do I have your attention?
Good.

_______

I propose that the regulations on sound suppressors as embodied in the National Firearms Act of 1934 should be repealed, and that suppressors should be just as legal to put on a firearm as a telescopic scope is on a hunting rifle, or custom grips on a dedicated target pistol.

After all, federal law mandates that you must have a muffler on your car, so why should putting one on a firearm be any different?

There are no statistics that show that criminals used suppressors before they were banned in 1934 as part of the media-hyped, governmental over-reaction to the violence that erupted as a result of the Volstead Act and Prohibition.

I submit that this regulation is a relic of a bygone era- the time of Prohibition, Jim Crow, and a distinct knowledge gap with regard to scientific understanding of the causes of permanent hearing loss.

In the 1930's no one knew that loud sounds caused permanent, irreversible hearing damage. Nowadays such ignorance is laughable. Research has shown that repeated exposure to sounds louder than 85 decibels cause irreversible damage to the delicate structure of the inner ear. Gunshots regularly exceed 100 decibels. America has a rich heritage of hunting and competitive shooting that is not about to go away. Why should those who choose to engage in these activities be unfairly penalized with hearing loss? Why should the public be expected to, in many cases, pick up the tab? Certainly there are forms of hearing protection available such as ear plugs and muffs, but why should the American sports enthusiast be denied the use of yet another tool to protect his or her hearing?

Beyond the hearing safety of the firearms user is the standard of living of those around him or her. The American population is growing at a prodigious rate. The resulting urban sprawl has seen the rapid development of much land that was once nearly unpopulated countryside. This has given rise to many contentious and unpleasant confrontations between formerly rural residents and their newly arrived suburbanized neighbors. In nearly every state in the nation, private shooting clubs as well as individuals who safely and legally shoot on their own private property have come under fire for annoying their neighbors. This gives rise to a prickly situation: whose rights are more important? Those of shooting clubs or land owners who were there before urban sprawl brought new neighbors to them, or the neighbors who simply wish to live without being continually submitted to the sound of nearby gunfire? The authors of the 1934 law could hardly have forseen such a development, and it is a travesty that we in the early 21st century must deal with the unintended consequences of their shortsightedness.

An argument could be made that criminals would choose to use suppressors in order to gain an advantage. However this is unlikely. Suppressors are much more prevalent and available in many European nations and they don't seem to have a problem with it. Besides, criminals tend to spend as little on their weapons as possible. It is highly unlikely that they will be willing to pay several hundred dollars on the modifications needed to mount a sound suppressor as well as the suppressor itself. On top of this, even the most compact suppressors are several inches long, which renders the weapon nearly impossible to conceal for criminal purposes.

Deregulating firearm sound suppressors is a wise idea both as a public health issue and one of general civility.
While this ban may have had some legitimacy in the early 20th century, times have changed. We now know that extremely loud sounds can cause permanent hearing damage. Urban sprawl has led to confrontations between newly arrived residents and those who were there first, and chose to use the land for sporting purposes. Many countries in Europe such as Norway do not regulate suppressors, and their use is encouraged as a form of good manners. Criminals are unlikely to use them because they are bulky and costly. Mufflers are required on many machines used by us every day. Why should their use on firearms be omitted because of an antiquated law?

_______

Ok, I typed all of that off the top of my head, and it ended up a lot longer than I anticipated. However, I'd be curious to know if my arguments come across as logical to someone who is only a passively interested third party? Do the points I have made seem rational to the average person, or do they come across as yet another crazy idea from a gun-toting redneck psychopath? I deliberately avoided making references to the use of suppressors in self-defense and lethal force encounters because it's too easy to then accuse the pro-rights person of being a Rambo-wannabe. (This, of course, does not change the fact that I don't think we should have to trade our hearing for the right to defend our homes and loved ones with the most effective means available.)

I believe that if presented in a modest, middle of the road fashion, the arguments for the deregulation of sound suppressors are far and away much more compelling than the arguments against them. Personally, I think we are unlikely to repeal the requirement to fill out a 4473 or possess a post-'86 machinegun, but that if presented as a public health issue to the right legislators we could get this part of the NFA repealed.

Thoughts?
 
Justin, here's a rough draft:

A Bill:
To remove regulation on an important safety item, firearm suppressors

Section 100 - Remove firearm suppressors from the definition of a firearm
a) Strike 18 U.S.C. 921 (a)(3)(C), then rename (a)(3)(d) as (a)(3)(C) for continuity.

Section 101 - Remove the misleading federal definition of the term "silencer"
a) Remove (a)(24) and renumber (a)(35) as (a)(24).

Section 102 - Remove longer federal sentences for crimes committed with "silencers"
a) To get rid of federal penalty enhancements for criminals using silencers, edit (sub)sections of 18 USC 924 to read as follows:
(c)(1)(B)(ii) is a destructive device, the person shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 30 years.

(c)(1)(C)(ii) if the firearm involved is a destructive device, be sentenced to imprisonment for life.

(o)A person who conspires to commit an offense under subsection (c) shall be imprisoned for not more than 20 years, fined under this title, or both; and if the firearm is a destructive device, shall be imprisoned for any term of years or life

Section 200 - Alteration of sentencing for past offenses
a) In accord with Calder v. Bull (1798) and Weaver v Graham (1981), any person convicted of possession of an unlicensed firearm silencer shall have that conviction and portion of his or her sentence stricken.
-------------

Once a silencer is not classified as a firearm, I think that means it can't be regulated in the CFR as a NFA item because doing so would exceed the scope of the BATFE's authority.

I think section 200 might be unnecessary, but since it doesn't change the U.S. Code I don't see any harm in including it.

(shh... the above removes the penalty enhancements for machineguns as well as silencers... did anyone notice?)
 
Excellent arguments for ending the restrictions on suppressors. At the very least they should be treated no differently than the handgun itself.

As far as lifestyle issues go, the most worthwhile to me would be nationwide CCW. If my driver's license and my marriage license are good in all 50 states then why shouldnt my CCW be as well?
Second to that are regs allowing CCW on airplanes. At least *something* better than what is done now which is a regulatory nightmare out of Catch-22.
Ending the ban on manufacture of machine guns would be nice but I amnot going to start carrying one one no matter what. Ending bans on imports is just good free trade.
I wont choose: I WANT IT ALL!
 
DREAM ON!! The days of Teddy Roosevelt are gone forever.

This country's demographics is radically changing. NOT for the better. We've got a quickly increasing spanish population. Add the blacks, orientals, jews and dumb white crackers, and what you have is anything but a 50% majority on pro gun questions. The best we can hope for is to simply keep what we have! (That's a tough enough accomplishment!)

It is only because George W. and the Republican Congress were required to DO NOTHING except look the other way, and allow the sunset to happen during this election season, is the reason why we're getting back our ugly black rifles for a little while longer. Don't think it was something that our President and congress really wanted to do. If they had to lift a finger, you'd still have the damn ban! And don't think this sunset is going to last.

:rolleyes: ....machine guns, silencers? Please, get real. Why don't you ask for Dinamite at your corner general store too while your at it!
 
This country's demographics is radically changing. NOT for the better. We've got a quickly increasing spanish population. Add the blacks, orientals, jews and dumb white crackers, and what you have is anything but a 50% majority on pro gun questions. The best we can hope for is to simply keep what we have! (That's a tough enough accomplishment!)

I'm a republican,pro-gun, I own a gun,and I'm hispanic.
 
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Good arguement re suppressors.

I'd probably not own one - even if they were reasonably priced. So maybe I fit your parameters.
The authors of the 1934 law could hardly have forseen such a development, and it is a travesty that we in the early 21st century must deal with the unintended consequences of their shortsightedness.
This speaks to one of my several pet peeves: old laws.

I believe that legislation - at any level - should have a required formal review for its "currency" for the times and a firm sunset date. Example: A total ban against a certain current medical procedure. 20 years down the road there's new evidence that that procedure actually works. You can visualize other examples. Some measures are short term, appropriations, for instance; they die every year.

What we don't need is a bunch of "set and forget" laws - except the Constitution, of course.

If the 86, 68, 89, 34 acts had limited durations, they (or some of their details) may have been cleared by now, probably after some "discussion activity" by folks like us on this AWB subject.

BTW: That "discussion activity" could be put to work on these items to jin up a repeal. Our next full-bore effort?

-Andy
 
I can easily see another AWB - a permanent and far more strict one at that - within the next 4-6 years . I don't see nationwide CCW until every state has a CCW law and that's unlikely ; it is what I would be hoping for most . As for legalizing any more full auto guns ? Forget about it ; if you think semi-automatic weapons get people into a tizzy , wait until they'd start taking about machineguns flooding the streets on the news . At the first whiff of it you'd see many a "pro-gun" pol turn tail and support for it among average gun owners would be very,very low .
 
if you think semi-automatic weapons get people into a tizzy , wait until they'd start taking about machineguns flooding the streets

But there is the beauty of it! Many people already think that the AWB covers machine guns. I believe this helps to show how much oppisition there would be to repealing the 1986 and 1934 bans. If Feinstein and the Brady Group are already making people think that "assault weapons" are machine guns, there is not much else they could tell them about the 86/34 bans being repealed. While obviosuly, it is by no means an exact portrayal, I believe it gives somewhat of an idea as to how difficult it would be. I do expect it to be more difficult than the AWB expiration, however.

I believe that the 1986 problem could be taken care of by promoting it as a bill to require gun registration. Which is not a lie at all, it would once again allow individual people to register automatic weapons. I expect to see at the very least the 86 ban repealed within my life time, and I expect that I will have something to do with it being done away with.
 
One thing is for sure; we have momentum on our side with the end of the AWB and we need to use it to our advantage.
I think a national CCW or at least recognition of one from any state in all other states would be a beginninig.

As it is, a Texan, who has no problem with concealed carry here, cannot carry in NY.
So how come folks from NY can come down here and legally drive?

(I'm not picking on anyone, here, just trying to make a point.)
 
VaniB,
Just to fill in with the rest. I'm ASIAN, (oriental is an object not a person) republican, and own guns. My relatives in the TX's areas are the same. My relatives in NY are the same. If anything they have more respect for this countries freedoms than most citizens since they had to experience communism.
As another note. Japanese, Chinese, Korean and other asian nationalities are not the same. Our cultures are as different as American and Russia.
To keep this on topic I vote for silencers. I have land that was in the country but there are now a lot of horse owners around my land. I would like to keep shooting and keep on good terms with them. A silencer would let me do that. However, the public has a deep fear of silencers since they are another evil features seen in the movies. So I guess we should push for the import ban removal.
 
The import ban was only able to be put into effect because the 1968 GCA allows them to restrict guns from being imported based on their "sporting use". Get rid of the "sporting use" provision and you get rid of one way to restrict imports.


That is a good idea. I have always wondered what "sporting use" meant. And who makes that determination? Is it an ELECTED official? Or some Anti-gun minion? Where in the Second Amendment does it mention "sporting use"? :scrutiny:
 
We've got a quickly increasing spanish population. Add the blacks, orientals, jews and dumb white crackers, and what you have is anything but a 50% majority on pro gun questions.

I wonder how much of the THR population is made up of "blacks, orientals, jews [sic] and dumb white crackers."

The Conservative movement used to be made up of know-nothings and troglodytes like this. On the other end were the Main St Republicans like Nelson Rockefeller. Between William F. Buckley and Ronald Reagan the movement got rid of both undesirable elements. Most wealthy people today are Democrats, as are most poor people. The middle class is largely Republican.
I think the issue is more urbanization, with more people living in cities there is less familiarity with guns (and costs of ownership and use are much higher) and thus less understanding about them. We need better communication.
 
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