Advice on knife for daughter

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You have to differentiate between a tactical knife or a first responder, which she is. As a first responder she may be involved in more motor vehicle accidents where the victims can not escape the restraints of a seat belt because they are unconscious and the vehicle may be burning. I would personally recommend the Spyderco rescue assist which could double as a self defense weapon as well. If she is surprised from behind she may not be able to stab but she can definitely cut real deep to free herself .
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Slamfire said:
I do not believe
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You are grossly out of touch with what this thread is about or what female LEOs (or any LEO or any other female) may face. The point as been made clearly that an officer, male or female, isn't going to be knife fighting or wielding a combat knife. What they do face is struggling with someone they're trying to arrest that is trying to take their sidearm or taser and at that point the advantage a compact knife to stop that attempt or make the BG get off them so they can make space to then draw their sidearm. Since THAT was pretty clear in the discussion I'm unsure what point you're trying to make since it seems to be inspired by a separate thread.
 
MtnHiker said:
Any of the KBAR TDI knives carried at the waist in front of the body are great. Several outfits used to provide training with this blade geared for LE. Ie Close quarter, weapons retention, last ditch defense, etc.. plus the TDIs are innexpensive. Combined with a leatherman that is a pretty good system. I would keep the gear mainstream production items that are easily replaced and budget price as it probably will get hard use, lots of abrasion banging against gear getting in an out of cars and loss is an issue

Off topic The Dozier that sgt127 posted are great blades but his waiting list is too long these days. His horizontal carry system is really neat. I have a toothpick in a drawer that I may dig out and try that with. Thanks.
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I strongly advise against carrying those blades, especially on the centerline. When grappling with someone the center line can be difficult to access, and provides an opportunity for the opponent to grab it.

I recommend what Bill Rapier refers to as "your other strong side" meaning your non dominant hand side.
 
As a paramedic I carried a 5" fixed blade, half serrated, in a Kydex sheath on my left boot. It was very useful - and serrations are an absolute necessity on such a blade, in my opinion - but I would make a few changes were I to start over.

For one, I would go with a blunt tip. The sharp tip never once was useful, and often presented a danger. The knife was used for cutting seat belts, clothing, and on one occasion, patient restraints, and I was always worried about poking someone.

Two, I would go with orange scales. I had some vague notion that I could use the knife as a weapon if I had to, but thankfully it never came up. I did, though, get some hard looks from docs and LEOs for producing a dangerous black weapon, and I'm sure that would have been addressed had it been an obvious "EMS tool" instead.

And third, I would have gone with something cheaper. That Benchmade lived a hard life - and there were times when I really should have just dropped it instead of spending the time to put it back into its sheath. But when the cost of the knife is equal to several shifts, you balance it against the immediate future of some stranger who really shouldn't have been drinking and driving anyway...
 
shafter said:
I strongly advise against carrying those blades, especially on the centerline. When grappling with someone the center line can be difficult to access, and provides an opportunity for the opponent to grab it.

I recommend what Bill Rapier refers to as "your other strong side" meaning your non dominant hand side.
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Have you taken any formal training on entangled knife fighting or grappling?

Craig Douglas is one of the leading instructors for entangled gun and knife fighting, he is a strong proponent of centerline blade carry. So much so that he has designed a highly regarded knife, Clinch Pick, specifically for centerline defensive carry.

If you aren’t familiar there are clips on YouTube. ECQC is his gun class and EWO is his knife class.
 
bratch said:
Have you taken any formal training on entangled knife fighting or grappling?

Craig Douglas is one of the leading instructors for entangled gun and knife fighting, he is a strong proponent of centerline blade carry. So much so that he has designed a highly regarded knife, Clinch Pick, specifically for centerline defensive carry.

If you aren’t familiar there are clips on YouTube. ECQC is his gun class and EWO is his knife class.
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Yes I have. Craig Douglas has alot of good stuff but I disagree with him on this based on personal experience as well as classes.
 
I’m, obviously, big on centerline weapon carry. That’s where I carried my knife and, now retired, where I carry my gun. Appendix.

I really like the clinch pick. It would take a while to figure out the backside cuts.

But, how would you conceal that in uniform? The whole egg shaped handle would be hanging below your gun belt..
 
bratch said:
Have you taken any formal training on entangled knife fighting or grappling?
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Yep

I took 3 classes with Craig/SouthNarc about 15-20 years ago. Great trainer.

Like all training you should take a range of training beyond the initial course level if you want to become proficient vs. competent vs. familiar. Then pick what works best from those and look for more training focused on what you chose. Craig didn't just focus on the Clinch Pik, I took them so far back it wasn't as much of a thing yet.

Janich teaches different skills. Benner teaches different skills. I've had their training as well and taken something useful away from all of them.
 
...she can definitely cut real deep to free herself .
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The dull nub at the tip of the cutting edge will really hamper the ability to make slashing cuts. I think that's an excellent utility/rescue knife--really well thought out. The ability to cut seatbelts or clothing with virtually no danger of harming the person wearing them is great, but it severely limits its utility as a weapon.
 
My suggestions.

I live in a rural area as well.

Really I would have two knives.

One a standard locking blade that can cut seat belts and the like. A general duty knife that is comfortable in her hand.

The other is a bit more difficult.

What will she be wearing for duty? A vest or just a duty belt?

A vest gives you more places to put stuff.

As for a defensive knife I would say the following specs:

1: It MUST fit her hand well and have the type of handle that you can thrust with and not have your hand slide forward on to the blade.
Preferably Micarta or similar.

2: A fixed blade for sure. When you need it you will not have time to look for a button or Spyder hole or the like. It must be ready to go NOW.

3: Single edged with a good spear point will thrust well and not look too mean to the natives.

4: Kydex sheath so you don't have to mess with release straps or such.

5: Where to carry? Not on the ankle. Takes too long to get to. Either on the belt or on the vest tucked away a bit but still readily accessible.

6: Hardest part is to be able to access with both hands. As a LEO she can't really carry two knives, one on each side, she will look too militant for the natives. Of course if the folder you buy for general use is an auto or assisted opener that can help as the off side blade.

It is difficult because as a LEO she needs to put out a look of I am one of the good guys. This makes open blade carry a bit more difficult.

But these are my thoughts
KC
 
Thank you all for your advice. As a father I was thinking more along the lines of seat belts, zip ties, tape, rope, breaking windows, windshields, etc. The thought of fighting with a knife is real, but I was not thinking in those terms. I just remember "the winner in a knife fight is the last one to bleed to death". I was thinking in more practical and tactical terms. A small fixed blade or stout folder with a multi tool or SAK seems to fit the needs I was thinking about. As far as a fighting knife I'll let her get more training and advice from her peers. Thanks for some eye opening thoughts.
 
JohnKSa said:
The dull nub at the tip of the cutting edge will really hamper the ability to make slashing cuts. I think that's an excellent utility/rescue knife--really well thought out. The ability to cut seatbelts or clothing with virtually no danger of harming the person wearing them is great, but it severely limits its utility as a weapon.
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The dull nub at the tip of the cutting edge serves a purpose. It is to keep from cutting the victim when cutting the seat belts. Also from cutting herself if she herself suffers a mva (motor vehicle accident), blade design is meant to cut like a saw. I guarantee that if she is in a fight and is getting choked from behind, she won't have to worry about stabbing herself as the "dull nub" will not injure her, but when she places the blade on the bone of the wrist or fleshy parts of the arm it will cut. One has to be able to think out of the box and not follow the general thinking of defense everyone thinks or teaches, soon everyone know what to expect, like when you were a kid in school getting into a fight after school and the first thing everyone did was protect their "dingleberries", it was common knowledge.
 
hso said:
Yep

I took 3 classes with Craig/SouthNarc about 15-20 years ago. Great trainer.

Like all training you should take a range of training beyond the initial course level if you want to become proficient vs. competent vs. familiar. Then pick what works best from those and look for more training focused on what you chose. Craig didn't just focus on the Clinch Pik, I took them so far back it wasn't as much of a thing yet.

Janich teaches different skills. Benner teaches different skills. I've had their training as well and taken something useful away from all of them.
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Thats the great thing about training it actually lets you see what works for you versus what someone on the internet tells you will work.

I like centerline carry and it’s worked for me in force on force. Sounds like @shafter has come to a different conclusions than I have but has put in the work to get there so it’s as valuable as mine.

I’ve spent some time with Janich, his knowledge of SE Asia was impressive.

Now to get off the thread derail.
 
The dull nub at the tip of the cutting edge serves a purpose. It is to keep from cutting the victim when cutting the seat belts.
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It does serve a purpose. As I mentioned, I think that style of blade is pretty much ideal for cutting seatbelts and for cutting off clothing. The design, however makes it impossible to stab with the knife (a good thing when cutting seatbelts or removing clothing), and it also makes slashing type cuts very difficult since not only is the tip dull, but there is also a dull nub that extends down past the cutting edge at the end of the knife. A typical slashing cut would contact the target with that dull nub which would likely prevent a cut--just as the design is intended to do.
...but when she places the blade on the bone of the wrist or fleshy parts of the arm it will cut.
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Right. If she can get the edge of the blade against part of the body that has a relatively small radius, then she can saw or push with it and get it to cut. It's not going to be harmless, but its design will most certainly "hamper the ability to make slashing cuts", totally prevent stabbing with it and will generally "severely limit its utility as a weapon."

I wouldn't want to use a knife for self-defense that was only good for sawing or push-cutting against parts of the bodies that have relatively small radii--a much better choice would be a knife that could be used to stab or slice any part of the attacker's body.

Imagine having a self-defense firearm that could only be used to shoot parts of the body like the bone of the wrist or fleshy parts of the arm. I think most people would agree that was a weapon that was severely limited in its utility.

Just as I wouldn't recommend a double-edged self-defense knife for general purpose use because of the limitations of its design, I wouldn't recommend a Spyderco Rescue (or similar design) if self-defense is a possible use because of the limitations of its design.

As I mentioned in my first post, I think the best solution is to carry a fixed-blade knife with a double edge for self-defense in addition to another knife (most likely a folder) for other purposes.
 
rperyam said:
Thank you all for your advice. As a father I was thinking more along the lines of seat belts, zip ties, tape, rope, breaking windows, windshields, etc. The thought of fighting with a knife is real, but I was not thinking in those terms. I just remember "the winner in a knife fight is the last one to bleed to death". I was thinking in more practical and tactical terms. A small fixed blade or stout folder with a multi tool or SAK seems to fit the needs I was thinking about. As far as a fighting knife I'll let her get more training and advice from her peers. Thanks for some eye opening thoughts.
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Average cops don’t know squat about knives or knife fighting. She will not get much advice at work. (I’m basing that on 36 years of experience). Unless there’s one of the outliers, like me and a couple guys at my Department.

Tell her to revisit this thread when she’s ready. There’s a lot of good advice. But, any, or all of it, might not work for her.

A fellow Sergeant was a US Army Green Beret. He actually adopted my knife carry method as he liked it so much. (But, not a Dozier. I just happened to have it. It was about the size I wanted, so it became my carry knife at work)

We talked about knife training in SF. There wasn’t much. He summed it up as:

“Be a mad monkey with a spike.”
 
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Over many years I have taken various classes including a few knife classes. When I said in front I meant anywhere from 9 to 3 and I personally prefer 10 to 2 ( as a righty I prefer 10 for weak hand draw) mainly to emphasize not having it snatchable from behind and reachable with either hand. As for centerline we can agree to disagree. Everyone has to sort their own gear, tactics, training and load out. One issue I have with 9 oclock carry is that if it goes hands on your natural stance often shifts to blading your body(left foot forward right foot back) to protect your strong side FA. Now you present your knife with only one hand Ever available to acess it or defend it.
There was an outfit that made a different sheath for the original TDI the let you go right or left and adjust cant to full horizontal. I believe it had a tek lok on it. I have that around here somewhere leftover from a class. Anyway in horizontal it seemed less prone to snatch grab but also harder to deploy. But after taking that particular class with that setup I realized A the fixed blade was way faster to deploy and B the spyderco in my pocket was only available with one hand which is also true with 7-9 or 3-5 carry of a fixed blade.

However the likelyhood of getting it snatched is there so everything is a trade off.

This is why I kinda liked that horizontal setup with the dozier. I can see that above and behind a dut belt being hard to spot.
 
rperyam said:
Thank you all for your advice. As a father I was thinking more along the lines of seat belts, zip ties, tape, rope, breaking windows, windshields, etc.
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All things a knife can help with.

The thought of fighting with a knife is real, but I was not thinking in those terms. I just remember "the winner in a knife fight is the last one to bleed to death"..
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What, exactly, is a "knife fight"? The place for a defensive knife is NOT against a knife threat. That's why God made other defensive tools, preferably firearms, or Taser backed up by other officers with guns. We have been talking about a small knife intended to let the user break free of an assailant who is grabbing the officer and/or their firearm.

A lot of people spout that folksy "wisdom" while talking about movie knife duels that bear about as much resemblance to reality as quick-draw contests at high noon.

John
 
rperyam said:
. A small fixed blade or stout folder with a multi tool or SAK seems to fit the needs I was thinking about.
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Which only a few have offered. The rest are fixated on the weapon aspect, and in their cyberspace, Policing is constant and lethal fights. “If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.” I would say this, if Policing is the ultra violent job, physically fighting to the death, by grappling, or other means, that these individuals claim, convince your daughter to get another job.

I know a number of ex Cops who shoot in competition. They do not have a scalp pole, they do have stories, none of them have killed anyone, but they all filled out mountains of paperwork. Most of Police work is rather boring. There was a court case where the Supreme Court decided that while you can't be rejected for being stupid, you can be too smart for Police work.

Jordan, a 49-year-old college graduate, took the exam in 1996 and scored 33 points, the equivalent of an IQ of 125. But New London police interviewed only candidates who scored 20 to 27, on the theory that those who scored too high could get bored with police work and leave soon after undergoing costly training.
Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops
 
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I have a long history of working alongside LE for strategies, tactics, and training. I got asked by officers a lot this very question. My answer neatly can boil down to two knives. One being a working knife to handle all sorts of easy tasks. Opening your mail at the end of shift, cutting zip ties etc. A lot of officers keep this knife where most civilians do: clipped to the inside pocket edge of their dominant side. Normally, a Leatherman type multi tool or folding knife is the common knife here.

The second knife I recommend, ideally, would see very little use. This is your last ditch knife. Someone is going for your duty weapon and you need a stop button. For this role I like the TDI knives from Kabar. I carried a large, serrated version on my body armor for years but think the smaller profile ones would fit better for a LEO.

https://www.kabar.com/products/product.jsp?item=1480

Before buying, I highly recommend watching the brief training video with John Benner about how to place and use this knife. Pay close attention to the timed drills at the end of the video comparing a fixed blade (TDI) knife to using a pocket folder. This is why I recommend two knives for LEOs.
 
Slamfire said:
Which only a few have offered. The rest are fixated on the weapon aspect, and in their cyberspace, Policing is constant and lethal fights. “If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.” I would say this, if Policing is the ultra violent job, physically fighting to the death, by grappling, or other means, that these individuals claim, convince your daughter to get another job.
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I would think that useful folding knives are pretty much common sense, which is why I didn't comment. I probably have 70 posts or more in this forum talking about useful folders, if you need the research.

By your apparent reasoning, there's no need for LEO to carry firearms either, since policing is not an "ultra violent job". :thumbdown: I don't expect fires, but I have a fire extinguisher.
 
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