Defense against an active shooter

Status
Not open for further replies.
shafter said:
People need to train both hard skills as well as prepare themselves mentally for the horror they will encounter on scene. Imagine responding to a school where there are dead children who've been shot right in the face and others are laying around screaming and covered in blood. How do you predict how you will react? The average American has never seen a body that resulted from violent death and even law enforcement who have seen it often rarely see dead children.

People gotta get into the right headspace for dealing with that as well as dealing with the fact that the killer most likely will be another child that you will have to shoot.

Can you walk past a wounded child who will most likely bleed out or do you press forward toward the threat?

The idea of rushing in and taking out the shooter sounds simple but it really isn't unless you have prepared with alot of mindset and physical training. Law enforcement and armed citizens alike need to really step it up because luck has nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...

Active shooter training, at least the exercises I participated in and conducted covered these these things. Officers responding had to pass role players who were portraying dead and wounded children and other officers. This kind of training became standard about 2000 at least in our area. We had multi agency exercises because any active shooter incident in our area would have been a multi-agency response. I don't know what happened in Texas, my thoughts on it would be off topic here.

These things are something everyone who thinks they might be in a position to deal with an active shooter needs to wrap their head around before the situation arises. It's not as simple as it looks on TV.
 
Master Blaster said:
The best way to deal with an active shooter situation is to get everyone out of the building as quickly as possible.
It seems that most of the actual shootings bear this out. Sheltering in place and waiting for rescue is really Not a good option.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. Obviously, the best defense is to not be where the danger is, so getting out seems like the best choice, but it is situational. In various situations, people who have tried to get out that passed within sight of the shooter drew the attention of the shooter and were shot or shot at. Of course, once you are out and away, you are safe. So there is a gamble there.

Sometimes, sheltering in place is the only option. In Uvalde, it worked well for everyone but those in the two adjoining classrooms the shooter got into before lockdown.
 
I was watching Mo Brooks (R AL) today on a news show. Smart Guy.

He was saying what I have been thinking for decades. When we were young we would frequently go to school with a gun in the car before or after hunting or target shooting.

There were no mass shootings.

Now there is one every few days.

What has changed ?

The answer is moral values and respect for other humans.

We have been hardened into a rough and callous society, often starting at a very young age.

I have not been involved in an active shooter situation but have done a few active house clearings as the only armed person and it is no fun.

I cannot understand why the officers at Uvalde were stood down. Especially with the protocol that is in place.

My response after a mass shooting is to buy another gun.

I have too many guns ...
 
Last edited:
SharpDog said:
What has changed ?
Click to expand...

I have to wonder about the mental capabilities of the people that have to ask what has changed between now and, say, the 1920s-1950s.

The answer isn't just moral values. A better question to ask is what hasn't changed in the last 2-5 generations. To only suggest it is moral values is to ignore EVERYTHING else that has changed that has an influence on society.
 
Double Naught Spy said:
I have to wonder about the mental capabilities of the people that have to ask what has changed between now and, say, the 1920s-1950s.

The answer isn't just moral values. A better question to ask is what hasn't changed in the last 2-5 generations. To only suggest it is moral values is to ignore EVERYTHING else that has changed that has an influence on society.
Click to expand...

You should go confront someone else
 
One thing never mentioned is the fact the USA is the most heavily medicated country in the world are drugs good for you? Some are good some produce hostile psychotic behavior but the fact is medication in America begins in kindergarden. The phrase commonly used is (he is hyper active) well if they had that mentality when I was growing up I would of been in a wheelchair because I was sure hyper or was I just active like normal kids are
 
GEM said:
The good guy with a gun mantra (so poorly phrased by the silver tongued WLP) is being scoffed at by most opinion writers and 'experts' in the 'field'. The instances of successful citizen defense are not mentioned.

However, I will comment that most carriers don't train one darn bit and if you don't, I really think you don't add to the debate of civilian interaction in an intense critical incident. Need to step up to the plate if you make the claim that you are going to help.
Click to expand...
However it WAS also recently proven right in West Virginia when a lady pulled her sidearm on a guy trying to shoot up a graduation with an AR, and she dropped him before he was able to hurt anyone. The news will refuse to linger on that one - doesn't fit the Agenda.
 
Last edited:
Sarge7402 said:
Horse hockey. On the hood shots ring out every one runs or drops. So in your world we can't get kids to do what we ask
Click to expand...
What was it 2 days ago when there was a stampede in NYC over a loud pop that people thought was somebody shooting yeah that worked out real good nobody hit the floor they ran for the exits.
 
Sarge7402 said:
Horse hockey. On the hood shots ring out every one runs or drops. So in your world we can't get kids to do what we ask
Click to expand...

LOL, I take it that you weren't a school teacher. I am guessing you weren't ever a parent, either. Despite extensive training, the US military can't get 100% of their soldiers to do what is asked. In active shooting situations, despite training, more training, for the last 23 years, we still can't always get cops to do the right thing.

You really think kids are always going "to do what we ask."

Atavar said:
Pretty much. Surprise most kids and they will Stand there looking around confused.
Click to expand...

Not only will kids stand looking around and be confused, adults do it as well.

One of the things you will sometimes find in shootings, is that when the shooting started, not everyone knew what was going on. A COMMON theme is for people to think that it is fireworks and in mall and school shootings, people think of fireworks as being a prank. People won't respond properly if they don't correctly identify what is going on and once they do identify what is going on, a percentage will still not react in logical on sensible manners.
 
Sarge7402 said:
Not if everyone knows to drop flat on the floor at the first sign of gunfire.

That leaves only the shooter standing. Now that's a great target for the good guy to aim at
Click to expand...

Good idea, but untrained people don't react rationally. The fight, flight, or freeze response is going to kick in.
 
GEM said:
Good points but it's always easier to talk about your new gun and stopping power rather than issues you raise. I never could get a set of TX friends who were all about guns to train or compete. At best, they would go to the square range or shoot at rocks at the 'ranch'.
Click to expand...

Because it takes actual work and when you start training or competing you are exposed to how little skill you actually have. It doesn't stroke the ego like setting up a drill that you can do in your sleep at the range.
 
exactly shaft when I was on the job 3 of my 5 boys were telling me how they could handle a firefight and when I took them out had them run a entire block with rifle in the heat lay down a hit a steel target at 25 yards it took a whole magazine to get the job done.
 
shafter said:
Because it takes actual work and when you start training or competing you are exposed to how little skill you actually have. It doesn't stroke the ego like setting up a drill that you can do in your sleep at the range.
Click to expand...

There's also the fact that outside of military training or Gunsite and a few other courses, there's few places people can train. Not everyone has access to land out in the country to set up a 3 gun type course or a shoot house. I'm lucky, I was able to do that.
Most ranges will not allow drawing a handgun, some do not allow "rapid fire", usually defined as more than 1 shot per second.
Even in the military, if you are not an SF type, you might get to a MOUT unit once a year, and the only even halfway realistic FoF trading you get is MILES, again, maybe once a year.
 
entropy said:
There's also the fact that outside of military training or Gunsite and a few other courses, there's few places people can train. Not everyone has access to land out in the country to set up a 3 gun type course or a shoot house. I'm lucky, I was able to do that.
Most ranges will not allow drawing a handgun, some do not allow "rapid fire", usually defined as more than 1 shot per second.
Even in the military, if you are not an SF type, you might get to a MOUT unit once a year, and the only even halfway realistic FoF trading you get is MILES, again, maybe once a year.
Click to expand...

Actually there are a ton of good trainers out there throughout the country. The best in the business travel through the United States and put on awesome one, two, or three day courses. Gunsite is fine but they are far from being the only show in town anymore. One of these days I'll put together a list and post it here.

Remember that good training doesn't always have to have to use live fire. Live fire is necessary from time to time, but a large portion of training can be done with Airsoft, SIRT, etc.
 
Double Naught Spy said:
"…Sometimes, sheltering in place is the only option. In Uvalde, it worked well for everyone but those in the two adjoining classrooms the shooter got into before lockdown…"
Click to expand...
Totally agree. If one is in a locked "interior" room without ground floor windows, sheltering in place almost certainly makes the most practical sense. I keep a rigid nylon fireman doorstop in my bag typically for use during hotel/motel travel. Once positioned under a door, they cannot be pushed open.

Were I somehow cornered in a school, office, hotel, or similar and if I felt escape was unlikely…then I would pick the best room I could quickly find, lock the door (if equipped), shove the fireman doorstop underneath, and then pile everything I could find inside against the door whether beds, desks, chairs, lamps, and anything else not bolted down.

Naturally all lights out, curtains drawn shut, and remain silent as much as possible.
A great reminder of why we should also not let our cellphones charge drop to 4% charge or whatever.
 
One major lesson learnable from Uvalde is that all the policies and procedures in the world won't make a difference if people don't follow them.

Shooter got in through a door that was improperly left unlocked and propped open for convenience's sake because parents were coming in and out for an event that day. Was that within their school security policy? I doubt it, and I'm sure someone thought it would be fine because things like that only happen to other people.

Shooter got to slaughter kids in a classroom because the school district had taken to heart the idea of a 'good guy with a gun' - they even had their own police department just for the school district, and a SWAT team in a county with only 25,000 people - but didn't take into consideration that the police chief might freeze under pressure or that individual cowardice and confusion in the fog of war would leave nearly 20 cops sitting on their hands outside the active shooting they'd spent all that money trying to prevent.
 
Hms warri
shafter said:
Good idea, but untrained people don't react rationally. The fight, flight, or freeze response is going to kick in.
Click to expand...
Maybe it's about time we teach skills in school that helps students make it out there in the real world.

Like self defense. Like how to baracade a school door. How to drop and roll if on fire. Like stopping the bleeding on their or a fellow students body.

He double hockey sticks the Israelites do why not us.
 
Most of today's kids aren't afraid. Same with alot of parents, they've never faced any type of violent repurcussions for their actions. Never been whipped for disobedience, had their mouth slapped for talking back or had their butt kicked just because they should have known better. They may see it on TV or video but they've never known physical pain as a deterrent. Without fear they simply don't realize the real life consequences that a lack of situational awareness can deliver. It's beyond most people's comprehension that there are real monsters in the world that will destroy them just because they can.

It can't happen to me.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

D
  • Locked
Should Security Guards Wear Body Armor Like LEOs?
Replies
18
Views
3K
gunsmith
G
W.E.G.
  • Locked
engaging the active shooter
2
Replies
29
Views
894
paramedic70002
P
J
  • Locked
University of Iowa Publishes Active Shooter Safety Guidelines
Replies
24
Views
1K
Double Naught Spy
Double Naught Spy
3
  • Locked
"Active Shooter" Phenomenon - LEO Article
Replies
4
Views
936
Jeff White
J
H
  • Locked
What's the general consensur here regarding tasers for self defense?
2
Replies
40
Views
1K
Fred Fuller
F
Back
Top