Beware of Turkish made pump shotguns with "Winchester" on them.

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No offense meant, but some folks are just hard to please! Looks like a lot of folks are pleased with their Winchester SXP's.

I've changed my mind about Turkish shotguns. Even changed my mind about Turkish 1911s. Some quality firearms are now coming out of Turkey. I think my Mossberg SA-20 is a great value for a semi-automatic shotgun.
 
BringHomeTheBacon said:
I'm now negotiating a return with GB seller on an SXP that I just inspected at my local FFL this afternoon for transfer. This gun is a reject and not what I expect from a brand new Winchester. It looks like the gun is factory marked with black ink that ran when exposed to the oil inside the plastic bag the gun was wrapped in. The gun was listed as FACTORY NEW. I told them if they did not give me a a full refund and pay for the return shipping, I will file a credit card chargeback. I think I should just fix the internally-scratched magazine tube on my Remington 870 police pump and keep it as my home defender. I should just stick with guns that don't have letter/number markings printed on them with some kind of ink or paint. Avoid all firearms with markings printed on with ink. That's a sign right there of super cheap. I've also heard these SXP's have issues with feeding and shell loading.

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BHTB,
A few questions here:
1. Did you buy the gun because it had SXP on the side of the receiver? I agree that the lettering should have not been affected by the gunoil in the bag, but the fact that it did will not affect the gun's ability to do the job you purchased it for. As stated above, just remove the rest and move on with a shotgun that several have said is very good. Have you even tried to shoot the gun?? If is runs as good as my two (Older) Winchester pumps, I would not let the smeared lettering affect my decision to keep it.
2. Did you look at the pictures of the actual gun in GB and if so was there any kind of problems with the lettering being wiped away in the pictures? IF not then yes the dealer should make it right or at least refund a portion of the cost. The dealer very well could have handled the gun with something on his hands while inspecting it and just not realized that he had done so.
3. The Remington 870 police pump is a fine firearm, so why would you want to replace it? If it was an internally scratched magazine tube, either repair or replace it and call it a done deal. That gun will serve you for a lifetime!!
Good luck on whatever path you pursue.
 
Why is this the sellers fault??
Sounds like a manufacture issue whoever that may be.
I would like to see the original GB listing.
 
All I can think of reading this thread is how bad I wish the biggest problem in my life was a ink smudge on a shotgun, I wish I had such minor problems that I even cared about something like that, I just have room for that.


Not trying to be rude, by all means if you’re not happy with it then try to have the problem corrected. But man, don’t sweat the small stuff.
 
Rule3 said:
Why is this the sellers fault??
Sounds like a manufacture issue whoever that may be.
I would like to see the original GB listing.
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Here is a GB listing for the same gun model by the same seller, they have jacked the price since I bought mine:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/929770498


I still have an open chargeback dispute against them. The gun is still sitting at my local FFL untransferred. They did respond to me by email saying the merchandise was sold "as is" according to them and that they don't open up new guns from the factory and inspect them before shipping to a customer. If you were a gun dealer, would sell a factory-new gun in a box sight unseen to a customer? How do you know it's not a box full of confetti or rocks with no gun even?
 
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DeepSouth said:
All I can think of reading this thread is how bad I wish the biggest problem in my life was a ink smudge on a shotgun, I wish I had such minor problems that I even cared about something like that, I just have room for that.


Not trying to be rude, by all means if you’re not happy with it then try to have the problem corrected. But man, don’t sweat the small stuff.
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It's just business and consumer expectations.
 
270OKIE said:
I have a Stoeger P3500 and its a great shotgun! I put a Benelli 7rd tube extension on it and I had to saw off a small part of the thread section where the end cap goes on, then it fit fine. I can fit 6+1 3.5in shells in it and 8+1 2.75in shells!
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Eagle103 said:
I bought a couple Stoeger M3000's about a month ago. Got them for a steal. So far they've been flawless.
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I had a stoeger 3500 before I got my beretta 391 and I can also say it was fantastic. It didn’t like the low recoil target loads but a 1 1/8 oz load would run it for practice and duck loads were really manageable
 
I buy things like this on credit card for consumer protection. It's not just for the cashback rewards. My bank has just charged back the seller in full. My local FFL still has the gun to the best of my knowledge. I emailed the seller to suggest they can remit a prepaid shipping label to my FFL to get the defective non-transferred gun back.

I told the seller in my message:

It might be better business practice, as a matter of diligence and prudence, in the future to carefully inspect NEW merchandise before shipping to customer's FFL. In spite of your alleged AS IS policy, my credit card company and I have reasonable expectations that merchandise advertised as NEW be undamaged when the customer inspects it at his FFL. SOLD AS IS is generally acceptable and expected policy for USED items in American trade.
 
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BringHomeTheBacon said:
you were a gun dealer, would sell a factory-new gun in a box sight unseen to a customer? How do you know it's not a box full of confetti or rocks with no gun even?
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From my experience this has been the norm with quite a few online sellers. Occasionally I find an issue when I inspect the gun at the FFL. None have been a big enough issue that I refused delivery and the gun mfgs have always fixed the issues. How about a smiley faced sticker over the smudged area? I can send you one if you like. PM me. :)
 
BringHomeTheBacon said:
.......... If you were a gun dealer, would sell a factory-new gun in a box sight unseen to a customer?
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If you think online gun dealers (who do hundreds if not thousands of shipments a week) open the box on factory new guns you are sadly mistaken.
Some manufacturers use security tape or cable ties to ensure the box isn't opened.....Sig does this on their handgun boxes.

How do you know it's not a box full of confetti or rocks with no gun even?
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You really think its likely that a manufacturer is going to ship a box of confetti ?:scrutiny:

I transfer such firearms every day to customers. If sealed or tied I'll cut that seal when the customer has completed the 4473. If the gun is refused, the customer is responsible for contacting the seller and getting a refund, return shipping, etc.

The gun not being "as described" is the danger you run for not buying locally.
 
In all honesty, I really prefer to buy a gun face to face the old-fashioned way but seldom do they ever have a gun I want at a price I like. I inspect the gun at the counter. Take it or leave it. Of course, what the local dealer has in stock limits your selection. He might be able to special order you something. You might pay the high full retail price too. You can also decline the gun when checked damaged by you at his counter. One finds "new" guns cheaper because they are sold online. The low level of product quality assurance leaves something to be desired though. bigger gun selection online. Cheaper "new" guns online but what about the condition and quality? Only getting something one paid for. I see. Before the Internet Age, there were plenty of new guns to choose from at your local gun shop at agreeable prices.

Because it is a firearm (under all these gun control laws) and not a new TV set or a new Osterizer blender, it's just not easy peaszy to return the damn thing to get your money back. If I had my way, a gun would be as easy to return as a defective air conditioner or even a defective candy bar to your local Walmart for that matter.
 
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BringHomeTheBacon said:
They did respond to me by email saying the merchandise was sold "as is" according to them and that they don't open up new guns from the factory and inspect them before shipping to a customer. If you were a gun dealer, would sell a factory-new gun in a box sight unseen to a customer? How do you know it's not a box full of confetti or rocks with no gun even?
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A lot of sellers of new guns will "drop ship" the item. They never even have it in hand - they have the distributor send it directly to the FFL of the person who bought it.
 
I'd get me a "666" sticker and place it over the smudged ink. Just to see how many would think that was either a model number or the devils number.
Things certainly are not built to the same manufacturing standards of yesteryear in many ways. I still have a problem with the look of all that tactical looking stuff. And a camo'ed gun? Not for me.
 
i know a man who bought a brand new sealed in the factory box game controller and game cards from a salesman in his under the over pass bridge store on a trip to new york for his son. three bricks wrapped in bubble wrap.
 
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