Treat Us Like Criminals to get Concealed Carry Permit

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aaaaa said:
My next question (and a good one to ask at the class) is how to carry if my day includes a trip to somewhere that does not allow guns (a store with a no-pistols sign on the door) or the library (which I assume is a no-carry),. Do you leave the gun home or leave it in the car where it could be stolen?
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I don’t recommend leaving firearms in a vehicle, too easily stolen.

If you must, get a metal lockbox, and securely fasten it to the vehicle. Not fool proof, but it will at least slow the crook down.

I laugh when I read of people putting it in the glove box or center console (who would ever look there?).

If I know I’m going to a medical facility or the post office, I just don’t take it.
 
Speedo66 said:
I don’t recommend leaving firearms in a vehicle, too easily stolen.

If you must, get a metal lockbox, and securely fasten it to the vehicle. Not fool proof, but it will at least slow the crook down.

I laugh when I read of people putting it in the glove box or center console (who would ever look there?).

If I know I’m going to a medical facility or the post office, I just don’t take it.
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Not practical but I suppose one could break the gun down, take the slide and barrel in their pocket, and leave the rest in the car. Not a regular practice, but coudl do in a pinch. I don't think a slide and barrel alone is considered a gun.

What do these regulators figure people are supposed to do if they make is so we are not supposed to carry into a certain place and if we leave it in the car and it is stolen, do they think that is wise?
 
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Seriously, whatever you do do not move to Massachusetts. Or as we call it, Behind Enemy Lines..... Fingerprinting is the least of the hoops we have to jump through to get a gun permit. No permit no gun.
 
Getting fingerprints is rigamarole, done to increase the "hassle" involved.
It's meant to deter you from getting the CHP.
There's really nothing else to it.

And, it's sadly routine. I had to be fingerprinted for my TX DL back in 1977. Military needed a set (repeatedly). Security clearances each needed some. Renewing Architectural registration in Texas requires a set (every licensed thing regulated by TLDR needs prints, now).
 
I had to get finger printed to be a licensed Insurance Adjuster. Years before getting LTC in TX required getting finger printed. Which for me was OK as protecting my life was more important. Even though we finally have CC in the Great State of Texas. Staying licensed is still a good benefit.
 
aaaaa said:
Not practical but I suppose one could break the gun down, take the slide and barrel in their pocket, and leave the rest in the car. Not a regular practice, but coudl do in a pinch. I don't think a slide and barrel alone is considered a gun.

What do these regulators figure people are supposed to do if they make is so we are not supposed to carry into a certain place and if we leave it in the car and it is stolen, do they think that is wise?
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They don't think of unintended consequences because they aren't thinking clearly when they post those signs to begin with.
 
Speedo66 said:
I don’t recommend leaving firearms in a vehicle, too easily stolen.

If you must, get a metal lockbox, and securely fasten it to the vehicle. Not fool proof, but it will at least slow the crook down.

I laugh when I read of people putting it in the glove box or center console (who would ever look there?).

If I know I’m going to a medical facility or the post office, I just don’t take it.
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The biggest issue is the locks on those boxes suck. They can be opened with a paper clip. Why they can't provide a decent key lock with those boxes is criminal.
 
My mom bought my step dad a handgun as a gift back in the 1970s. Part of the Application for Permission to Purchase a Handgun included full fingerprinting as part of the state BG check. It was a bit humiliating because she had to go to the ladies room to get the ink off her fingers.

By the 1980s fingerprinting was dropped as unnecessary, photo ID was sufficient.

Then state law required a check cashing style thumbprint card. It was done at the gun dealers and he provided a baby wipe for the ink. I think it was repealed because the one time the thumbprint record had to be checked, it was discovered the cards were illegible after years of storage. Check cashing fingerprint tech was not permanent.

My carry permit required full sets of fingerprints for the state and federal bureaus of investigation. Not a big deal to me at the time.
 
Being a vet, and en ex-federal employee fingerprinting means nothing to me. And really not a big deal.

It is a firm way of identifying someone. ID can be forged. And I wonder how many who are against fingerprinting send a DNA sample off to some ancestor company to find out where they came from?
 
RETG said:
Being a vet, and en ex-federal employee fingerprinting means nothing to me. And really not a big deal.

It is a firm way of identifying someone. ID can be forged. And I wonder how many who are against fingerprinting send a DNA sample off to some ancestor company to find out where they came from?
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The DNA horse is already out of the barn. They've collected enough information already to extrapolate forward and backward to zero in on the target.

The future is looking like a cross between Gattica and 1984, neither give warm fuzzies.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-ob...secrets-11653039002?mod=wsjhp_columnists_pos1
 
aaaaa said:
My next question (and a good one to ask at the class) is how to carry if my day includes a trip to somewhere that does not allow guns (a store with a no-pistols sign on the door) or the library (which I assume is a no-carry),. Do you leave the gun home or leave it in the car where it could be stolen?
Click to expand...

What I do when I am going into some place that doesn't allow me to carry, but I am also going other places in the same trip that I can carry is to lock the firearm in a lock box in my car that is attached to the vehicle. I NEVER LEAVE THE FIREARM IN THE LOCK BOX OVERNIGHT.

The risk of the firearm being stolen for the amount of time you're in the store where you can't carry is very small. Also, if one of your stops includes a Post Office, DO NOT BRING YOUR FIREARM. The Post Office does not allow vehicle storage on their property, so you cannot leave your firearm in a lock box while you go in. You cannot have your firearm on your person as you drive up to the drop box to mail letters if the drop box is on Post Office property. You cannot bring a firearm onto Post Office property at all unless you are legally mailing a long gun and it is boxed for shipping.

I also use the vehicle lock box if I am going into a restaurant and intend on having a beer with dinner. My state has a 0.0 BAC requirement for concealed carry, so the gun must be locked up separately from the ammunition if your BAC will be anything over 0.0. In my state, as long as the firearm is locked up separately from the ammunition, you may drive (as long as your BAC is under the legal driving limit, of course.)
 
aaaaa said:
I considered getting the concealed carry permit, but decided I am not going to submit to being fingerprinted, which is a requirement for carry permit in Michigan.
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If you think that makes you feel like a criminal, I don't think you will be able to handle jail. :D Does room service at a hotel also make you feel like a criminal?

I have been fingerprinted for two jobs, CCW, and two other times that I can recall. Can't say I ever had a single bad feeling about it.
 
LO!
I love the fingerprint part.
My prints wore off a long time ago.
They try and try and try and end up with a blank with a very few lines.
After a half hour, they end up just going with the best they can get.
The deputy doing the fingerprinting tells me it's not that uncommon for old farts like me to not have any prints left.
 
amp-rat said:
The DNA horse is already out of the barn. They've collected enough information already to extrapolate forward and backward to zero in on the target.
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Yep, that’s exactly how they caught the Golden State Killer several years back.

If you believe the documentary I watched, the only evidence they had was DNA. Once they had the match and knew who to look for they were able to put things together and build a case with more than just the DNA. But his relatives DNA is what gave them the link to him, at which point the only initial evidence they had was a DNA match.

I’m obviously glad he got caught, but the potential for abuse is a real concern.

If their is a legal right to privacy, which I really kind of doubt but I’m no lawyer, it’s been essentially made moot in part voluntarily and in part without our consent or knowledge. Which is why I very much understand the principle that the OP is standing on. I just also think it’s to little to late. As you said, the horse is out of the barn… I think it’s on government property by now.
 
Double Naught Spy said:
If you think that makes you feel like a criminal, I don't think you will be able to handle jail. :D Does room service at a hotel also make you feel like a criminal?

I have been fingerprinted for two jobs, CCW, and two other times that I can recall. Can't say I ever had a single bad feeling about it.
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Now that I understand one purpose of fingerprints is to ensure my identity, I am not so apprehensive about it. Clearly if someone else has my name and has committed a crime, that could stop me from getting the permit, though I would think that would have come up during background checks for purchasing guns. What I don't like is for them to keep my prints on file if they did not match any of their crime records, which they wont.

I noticed at my local Meijer store in the customer service department, the workers would lay their thumb on a device,presumably for access to restricted parts of their data system. So I guess it is a good thing for security.
 
F-111 John said:
What I do when I am going into some place that doesn't allow me to carry, but I am also going other places in the same trip that I can carry is to lock the firearm in a lock box in my car that is attached to the vehicle. I NEVER LEAVE THE FIREARM IN THE LOCK BOX OVERNIGHT.

The risk of the firearm being stolen for the amount of time you're in the store where you can't carry is very small. Also, if one of your stops includes a Post Office, DO NOT BRING YOUR FIREARM. The Post Office does not allow vehicle storage on their property, so you cannot leave your firearm in a lock box while you go in. You cannot have your firearm on your person as you drive up to the drop box to mail letters if the drop box is on Post Office property. You cannot bring a firearm onto Post Office property at all unless you are legally mailing a long gun and it is boxed for shipping.

I also use the vehicle lock box if I am going into a restaurant and intend on having a beer with dinner. My state has a 0.0 BAC requirement for concealed carry, so the gun must be locked up separately from the ammunition if your BAC will be anything over 0.0. In my state, as long as the firearm is locked up separately from the ammunition, you may drive (as long as your BAC is under the legal driving limit, of course.)
Click to expand...

I'll have to learn some new habits. I often drop letters at the boxes in the driveway of the post office. Park on side street, leave gun in car and walk over to the drop box.

We have a postal service desk in a local hardware store. Since that is not post office proeprty, I would think I am okay there.

As for the alcohol, I quit drinking about 20 years ago.

Somewhere I heard if a school is too close to the road, you can't even drive down that road with a gun if your car gets within the certain distance of the school building. Crazy!
 
I find this thread rather ridiculous in the OP premise. Just virtue RKBA signaling to be rather blunt. Before the onset of the shall issue laws, folks could not carry legally to defend themselves in most places. Now you can in more that 40 states. It kick started the rise of the SD defense movement which is the dominate gun paradigm now. It led to the constitutional carry movement which never would have got started without the shall issue laws. It led to the rise of numerous new guns, competitors, tactical classes for the average person to learn how to defend themselves well. It's big win for the RKBA progress.

So you get finger printed - like the government doesn't know all about you if it feels like it. Suck it up. I've been fingered printed for many other things. You've posted you are gun owner on the Internet. Gotcha.
 
GEM said:
I find this thread rather ridiculous in the OP premise. Just virtue RKBA signaling to be rather blunt. Before the onset of the shall issue laws, folks could not carry legally to defend themselves in most places. Now you can in more that 40 states. It kick started the rise of the SD defense movement which is the dominate gun paradigm now. It led to the constitutional carry movement which never would have got started without the shall issue laws. It led to the rise of numerous new guns, competitors, tactical classes for the average person to learn how to defend themselves well. It's big win for the RKBA progress.

So you get finger printed - like the government doesn't know all about you if it feels like it. Suck it up. I've been fingered printed for many other things. You've posted you are gun owner on the Internet. Gotcha.
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If you see it that way, but frankly, it really bothered me and doing further research online and working through it on this thread helped me to get over my aversion to the fingerprinting. So the thread served a good purpose, and I learned a lot from it. I am pretty new to all this so still have a lot to learn.
 
Then perhaps, doing some research first might have been a better idea than a diatribe which made little sense. Sorry, if I was blunt but not being able to defend yourself legally is more important.
 
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