Is this a timing issue on my new Colt? Update

Status
Not open for further replies.
My brand new (like, bought 3 days ago) King Cobra is on its way back to Colt as I type this. During the first range trip, it began periodically binding up during double action. It was serious enough that the trigger could not be fully pulled in double-action, but pulling the hammer back manually would overcome the binding. A former Colt gunsmith estimated to problem is the "gauge" - the distance between the cylinder face and the forcing cone. He said it was likely too tight. That gap should be on the order of .006" - .008". I measured mine and I could not get a .002" feeler gauge in there. Colt had me send it back, so off it went. Other than that... the King Cobra shot extremely well, right to point of aim at reasonable self defense ranges. Action and trigger pull truly excellent. Bummer it had a problem, but it will get some close looks by Colt I suppose. Dealing with Colt customer support was a pleasure, btw.
 
It may have a chip of metal in the action from the mfg process that didn't get cleaned out. It worked it's way into a place that is causing this problem.
I'd send it in also. When you get it back it will be right.

That DOES happen. I bought a NIB 642 and it made it through exactly 6 rounds before the cylinder stopped rotating. Trigger still pulled, hammer still cycled and fell, but no cylinder movement. I took the side plate off and found a sliver of metal, that probably didn't get washed out during machining process was holding the hand back from engaging the cylinder star. I pulled it out and she's been fine ever since.
 
Did you check for endshake? Cock the hammer with an empty closed cylinder pull the trigger and fully lower the hammer, holding the trigger down is there any back and forth movement of the cylinder?

It needs to go back to Colt. They should cover shipping.
 
That is clearly a timing issue. If the star is fixed in place, then it is something to do with the cylinder hand and the cylinder stop. Given the cylinder turns clockwise, I think the land is not pushing the cylinder fully. I cannot imagine the cylinder hand left the factory short, but it is clearly not engaging as it should This should not be happening on a new pistol.
 
Oof, I'm no expert but like everybody said probably a timing issue. I've rented one at a range a couple of times and it was an excellent shooter with a phenomenal trigger.
 
Another fine example why colt is truly the best brand on the market.

Colt could not make a quality product to save their life.... or should I say company.... how many bankruptcies have to be declared?

I am sorry you bought a lemon, I would definitely invoke the factory warranty because what you have is not right.
 
I don't know if I would go that far.
I think they have earned their place with Smith &Wesson and Ruger.
I have shining examples of each at home.

Colt previous 1980 when hand fitting was prevalent and the revolver was still relevant in multiple industries, Colt did in fact have their place right up their with Smith and ruger.

The modern examples of "improvements" failing and continued bankruptcy proves the poor product Colt produces.

A standard Colt 1911 today still comes with the same sucky Gi sights, Gi triggers, gi everything you would have found on a commercial 1911 in 1960. Colt demands over $1000 for their product while the lowest grade Kimber out of the box is around $600 and has all the features the modern gun culture has learned to expect.

If it were not for the baby boomers and the few government agencies which still make purchases Colt would be left with an aviation division which I feel is the life line of the whole Colt empire.
 
Colt previous 1980 when hand fitting was prevalent and the revolver was still relevant in multiple industries, Colt did in fact have their place right up their with Smith and ruger.

The modern examples of "improvements" failing and continued bankruptcy proves the poor product Colt produces.

A standard Colt 1911 today still comes with the same sucky Gi sights, Gi triggers, gi everything you would have found on a commercial 1911 in 1960. Colt demands over $1000 for their product while the lowest grade Kimber out of the box is around $600 and has all the features the modern gun culture has learned to expect.

If it were not for the baby boomers and the few government agencies which still make purchases Colt would be left with an aviation division which I feel is the life line of the whole Colt empire.

Interesting you brought up Kimber. Prior to buying this Colt I actually looked at a K6S and really liked it but I couldn’t bring myself to buy another kimber after a horrible experience with one of their 1911’s (and their customer service) a decade ago.

I guess we all “pay our money and take our chances.” Either way I’m excited to get this snake back and working right but it’s just a woods gun and I’m in no hurry.
 
A standard Colt 1911 today still comes with the same sucky Gi sights, Gi triggers, gi everything you would have found on a commercial 1911 in 1960. Colt demands over $1000 for their product while the lowest grade Kimber out of the box is around $600 and has all the features the modern gun culture has learned to expect.

Are you sure you know for a fact what you're stating? ;)
 
A standard Colt 1911 today still comes with the same sucky Gi sights, Gi triggers, gi everything you would have found on a commercial 1911 in 1960. Colt demands over $1000 for their product while the lowest grade Kimber out of the box is around $600 and has all the features the modern gun culture has learned to expect.
YOWZA!

No, the standard Colt 1911 today comes with higher-profile 3-dot sights, normally a long trigger and a longer safety (although the one below is a repro Series 70). And the "lowest grade Kimber" is $799 at the least expensive anywhere in the country.

Have you even been into a gun shop in the past fifteen years?

1971 Colt Series 70 vs. 2008 Series 70

colt 1911s.jpg
 
Colt previous 1980 when hand fitting was prevalent and the revolver was still relevant in multiple industries, Colt did in fact have their place right up their with Smith and ruger.

The modern examples of "improvements" failing and continued bankruptcy proves the poor product Colt produces.

A standard Colt 1911 today still comes with the same sucky Gi sights, Gi triggers, gi everything you would have found on a commercial 1911 in 1960. Colt demands over $1000 for their product while the lowest grade Kimber out of the box is around $600 and has all the features the modern gun culture has learned to expect.

If it were not for the baby boomers and the few government agencies which still make purchases Colt would be left with an aviation division which I feel is the life line of the whole Colt empire.
I honestly don't know how many hunting loads my Colt Lawman Mk.V (1984/5 production) has spit out, half a million, maybe?? just guessing - but my hunting loads are a might hotter than your average box of SD 125gr. JHP's. I've been shooting pigs and such with 170-200gr. pills under a stout load of 2400 - way over "book" - since the mid-70's, before people said things like, "Ruger Only." The only thing I've replaced are the grips. It's a might humid down here and I never been bothered hunting in the rain so it's been soaked, dropped in mud, carried in leather, kydex, nylon, canvas, you name it, generally treated like a tool its' whole life. Never been back to the factory and never had a timing hand replaced. Now, maybe I just got lucky, and you can think that if it pleases you, or maybe Colts built better guns than you think for longer than you think. I've got lots of Colts and quite a few Rugers, only a few Smiths, because they Colts and Rugers stand up to the kind of use I demand. No offense.
index.php

Lawman w/ Hogue Camo grips and a late 50's "Pre-Python" I-Frame Model 357

Some folks call the 357 and first-model Troopers "Poor Man's Pythons" but I think the Model 357 is really more The Original and the Python's a production-model 357. The Trooper's a good service tool, like the Python, but with a lower price tag for patrol officers. The Lawman's just a tough-as-nails, down-n-dirty shootin' iron.
 
My bought used 1964(I think it was) vintage Python broke the hand soon after I got it. The end just snapped off. The gunsmith at the LGS right down the street from me had it fixed the next day. He said the original looking one in it (It was 1979, and seemed the gun had too much finish wear for that to be true) was a hair too long and while it locked up great, it failed after a while. The hand on a Python is pretty weak looking compared to a Dan Wesson or S&W gun. Mine snapped off right where it narrowed down:
CT328-99-E-3T.jpg
Of all the revolvers I've ever owned, only one of my Dan Wesson 15-2's broke a hand and it was more of a chip off the end than it snapping off like the Python's did. Being worried it could happen again, I began collecting DW hands and have about 10 or 12, and have used one to fix a gun, the rest are there waiting, in case..
 
Colt is using again the double finger hand design, so the problem seems to be that the second (lower) finger fails to engage the ratchet properly. It might be a poorly machined hand, or just a chip/burr that is blocking the hand to operate properly - worth to check the action first, before sending it to Colt.
 
It’s on its way back to me already. Below is what they did:

REPAIR FOR ENDPLAY
REPLACE HAND
ADJUST TIMING TO FACTORY SPEC.
TEST FOR FUNCTION 6/15

I’ll post again when I can check it out.

Good news, and answers the question of support post CZ. I like the fact they let you know what was done as soon as possible.
 
Question to all the more experienced here, what was the cause of my timing issues given the fix from Colt? Bad hand or excessive end shake? Keep in mind the issues of ftf and off center strikes were in double action only shooting, single action was fine.
 
When you thumb-cock the gun, you probably do it pretty quickly, when you squeeze the DA trigger, you probably do it pretty slowly. When you turn the cylinder fast, once it gets going, the momentum will carry it to lock even if the hand comes out of engagement with the ratchet before lock is achieved. If the cylinder turns slowly, then the hand must stay in engagement all the way until the cylinder locks since there's no appreciable momentum to keep it going once the hand comes out of engagement with the ratchet. No matter how slowly the trigger is pulled, or the hammer is cocked, the cylinder should turn all the way to lock if everything is working properly.

Because of the way the hand engages the ratchet, if the ratchet can move forward out of the way (endshake) or if the hand is too short, or both then the cylinder hand can come out of engagement with the ratchet before the cylinder turns all the way to lock. That said, it would take a lot of endshake to cause a timing problem; my guess is they just checked everything and fixed anything that seemed out of spec. My guess is that the hand was out of spec. They probably tested it initially firing fairly rapidly and that didn't show the problem.
 
It would be interesting to know the endshake specs for these new model revolvers - maybe they are tight as before, but this is just a wild guess.
 
It’s on its way back to me already. Below is what they did:

REPAIR FOR ENDPLAY
REPLACE HAND
ADJUST TIMING TO FACTORY SPEC.
TEST FOR FUNCTION 6/15

I’ll post again when I can check it out.

Sorry for diving in like this with my 1st post.

I bought my 3" KC in early Nov 2019 (Serial# RA222***). It has the same issue with the cylinder not indexing completely when the trigger is pulled slowly in DA. The cylinder bolt/stop closes only after the hammer falls, and it does this on all 6 chambers. If I apply even gentle pressure on the cylinder as the hammer falls, I can rotate the cylinder clockwise after releasing the trigger and allowing it to reset. This would be physically impossible if the cylinder bolt locked-in-place prior to the hammer falling.

Received it back from CMC today, only they didn't replace the hand, and the problem persists:

REPAIR FOR ENDPLAY
ADJUST TIMING TO FACTORY SPEC.
TEST FOR FUNCTION 6/15

Not only did they not fix the problem, but now the trigger feels @ 2 lbs heavier than before.
 
Meatbag,

IIRC, the final lockup occurring when the
hammer falls is a trait of the Colt and its
hand operation. It was the way the hand
worked in the older Pythons, I do believe.

This "problem" aside, did the gun shoot
all right when using the DA mode? Proper
ignition and target results are what count.

But I do suggest you get into the habit of
not DAing "slowly." Make your pull
consistent and without hesitation. No
staging, please.

If all shoots well and you still don't like the
way the Colt performs, well, S&W or Ruger
lockup may be the answer for you.
 
Let's not mistake how the pre-Mk III revolvers did lockup with a clear timing issue (the hand), shall we? The bolt should engage the corresponding cylinder notch before the hammer falls, EVERY time, no matter how slowly one is pulling the trigger/cocking the hammer.
 
The bolt should engage the corresponding cylinder notch before the hammer falls, EVERY time, no matter how slowly one is pulling the trigger/cocking the hammer.

Even on the Python 2020 the bolt/cylinder stop fully engages just
as the hammer falls, not before. This occurs no matter how slowly
the trigger is pulled nor really how fast.

I've now just checked both a 2018 King Cobra and a Python 2020.
The hand works differently than on a Smith or Ruger. Or so it seems
to me,

Or maybe I am just plain wrong! :(

At the end of the day they've all seemed to shoot very well be
they Colt, Smith or Ruger.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top