Have You Ever Sold A Gun To .....

[See question written in bold text in the OP]

  • Yes. I could have unknowing sold to a prohibited individual

    Votes: 13 31.7%
  • No. It's impossible that I could have sold to a prohibited individual.

    Votes: 18 43.9%
  • I've never sold a gun without the transferee undertaking a BGC.

    Votes: 10 24.4%

  • Total voters
    41
Status
Not open for further replies.

WrongHanded

Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Messages
4,771
Okay, I know this will not be a popular thread. But please, if you choose to vote, have the High Road integrity of being honest with everyone.

I know many States do not require Universal Background Checks for private transfers. I also know that the States that do, didn't always require it (I live in one and remember the law being passed). I also know that UBCs can fail to be effective when prohibited individuals are not added to the NICS database. None of those points are relevant.

The question is very simple, and it's this:

Have you ever sold a gun through a private transfer, to a person who you were NOT 100% certain could legally possess a firearm?

I have to answer Yes, on this one. Because although I've sold to people I have known personally (without a BGC, back when it was legal to do so in my state), I have never had the complete life history of any friend, or co-worker. I am not omnipotent. And I know that people can lie, and that people can withhold information.
 
So far, I've only sold guns to people with current CRFFLs or Texas LTCs. Mostly because they were in my family or friend circle to begin with.

I'm pretty sure those folks were good to go, but who can say what their history was after they got their licenses? I sure ain't their babysitter.
 
I have an, admittedly academic, objection to the poll questions, as they are defined by absolute choices.

I am reasonably certain I have never sold to a Prohibited Person. This is based either on evidence they presented, ro from personal knowledge of the person.

And, to pick a nit, I've only ever sold the one time to a person with a Complete Background Check, and that's because they had a full BI for their Security Clearance (and I was one of the Points of Contact as part of that BI).
 
I have an, admittedly academic, objection to the poll questions, as they are defined by absolute choices.
I concur.

Have you ever sold a gun through a private transfer, to a person who you were NOT 100% certain could legally possess a firearm?
That question is not mirrored in the poll choices:
  1. Yes. I could have unknowing sold to a prohibited individual
  2. No. It's impossible that I could have sold to a prohibited individual.
  3. I've never sold a gun without the transferee undertaking a BGC.
Unknowingly is not the same as not 100% certain. It is possible that I have unknowingly sold a gun to a prohibited person, but then they would have had to lie to me to make that possible. That's different than completing a sale in the absence of a lie (e.g. uncaring enough to not ask questions).
 
I have an, admittedly academic, objection to the poll questions, as they are defined by absolute choices.

I am reasonably certain I have never sold to a Prohibited Person. This is based either on evidence they presented, ro from personal knowledge of the person.

And, to pick a nit, I've only ever sold the one time to a person with a Complete Background Check, and that's because they had a full BI for their Security Clearance (and I was one of the Points of Contact as part of that BI).
Couldn't have said it better myself.
 
It's possible, but doubtful. I check to make sure the person buying is a GA resident and is at least 18 or 21 depending on whether I'm selling a handgun or long gun. That meets my legal requirements here in GA. I have been much more careful in recent years though. I've used Gunbroker to sell a few as well as selling some to a local gunshop instead of trying myself.

I sold 2 yesterday that I advertised on a local GA firearms trading website. Anyone participating in that site is a registered member with contact info on file. And in both cases we ended up exchanging cell numbers to text each other as to where to meet for the FTF transaction.

I feel pretty good about using that site because it would be pretty easy for LE to track down anyone who was prohibited and bought a gun vs buying from a random guy at a gun show. I doubt many would be dumb enough to use that site unless they were legally able to own a gun.
 
I did many years ago. Sold a single shot 12ga to a buddy of mine. He had folks trying to break in and steal his pain meds. He asked me. And I sold it to him. Fast forward 6 months. I get a call at the office. You have a free call from _____ ____ would you like to accept. I did and he was charged w possession of a firearm by a felon. I almost crapped myself. Couldn’t help him his bond was $10,000.00. And he was on disability. Boss wouldn’t let me bond a friend over $2,500.00 with me co-signing for them. Nothing happened to me thankfully. When he got out we had heated words! Back in the 80s he got caught growing pot. He’s since passed. RIP My old friend. This happened 15 years ago.
 
I concur.

That question is not mirrored in the poll choices:
  1. Yes. I could have unknowing sold to a prohibited individual
  2. No. It's impossible that I could have sold to a prohibited individual.
  3. I've never sold a gun without the transferee undertaking a BGC.
Unknowingly is not the same as not 100% certain. It is possible that I have unknowingly sold a gun to a prohibited person, but then they would have had to lie to me to make that possible. That's different than completing a sale in the absence of a lie (e.g. uncaring enough to not ask questions).

I'm not sure I follow you. If you sold a gun to someone and were not 100% certain they were legally able to possess a firearm, they may have been prohibited. In which case, you could have unknowingly sold a firearm to a prohibited individual.

To reverse it: If you sold a gun to a person who may have, although unknown to you, been prohibited; then you couldn't have been 100% certain they could legally own a firearm.
 
I have an, admittedly academic, objection to the poll questions, as they are defined by absolute choices.

Yes they are. Either there is room for doubt, or there is not. And that is precisely the point. To admit that the possibility existed in a private transfer that was undertaken without a 4473 form, or to deny that possibility existed.
 
No one who has ever sold a gun to another person can be 100% certain. Unless you can verify their ID is real, and then run a background check, you can't know.

Fortunately the law does not require you to be 100% sure, it just requires that you not knowingly sell to a prohibited person.
 
Yes they are. Either there is room for doubt, or there is not. And that is precisely the point. To admit that the possibility existed in a private transfer that was undertaken without a 4473 form, or to deny that possibility existed.

Hmm. Even going to a FFL, getting a NICS check, and filling out 4473 does not mean we can be sure with 100% certainty that a gun was not sold to a prohibited person.
 
Every private sale I made (when they used to be legal in this state) I verified the buyer's state driver license and CPL.

Due diligence is all that was legally required.
 
Hmm. Even going to a FFL, getting a NICS check, and filling out 4473 does not mean we can be sure with 100% certainty that a gun was not sold to a prohibited person.

Which is why I explained that in the OP, and then excluded it from the question.
 
Every private sale I made (when they used to be legal in this state) I verified the buyer's state driver license and CPL.

Due diligence is all that was legally required.

That's all well and good. I have done the same. But that was not an answer to the question asked. It was an answer to a different question.
 
If that's your point, then you have no point to your question, because the answer would always be yes.

The point of asking the question is to make people think. The "black market" gets it's product from somewhere.
 
Regardless of state law, I will never sell one of my guns without requiring a background check through an FFL from the purchaser.
 
Hmm. Even going to a FFL, getting a NICS check, and filling out 4473 does not mean we can be sure with 100% certainty that a gun was not sold to a prohibited person.
Well yes it does! If I sell a firearm to a legal FFL it's his firearm. Thats why I sold it to him. He's responsible check out the next buyer. It's not up to me who it's resold to. Why would I be responsible and how would I never know? So trade in your car. The dealer sells it to someone and they kill someone with it. Your responsible? Thats just stupid!
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top