Most robust (true) pocket pistol

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defjon said:
My 21 a was an older blued model, it ran okay...I'm not entirely sold on the small pocket 22 semi autos.

When I carried it or the ply, I would fire them cold first thing and even with premium ammo I would occasionally have a round not go off or even jam. I think it's the nature of the beast with those platforms. Even with possible rimlock the 32 is probably more reliable in the tomcats but I question their robustness for regular practice. I think they fall into the carry lots shoot little. But I want to practice lots with what I carry.

I honestly think for 22 the NAA mini or lcrx are the best bet. With a dud round you can just go to the next. Due to their design, clearing a jam in the 21a isn't fun or terribly smooth.
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I like .22, but I don't have a pocket .22 of any kind. Not even a subcompact size lol.
 
The NAA mini is worth having! So many varieties. They're all good and well made.

I also would love a 21a inox, but for the price the mini is probably more practical for that role.
 
The term pocket pistol was coined during the times when men wore suit jackets all the time. To my mind stuffing a small gun in your jeans makes it too hard to deploy. Imagine trying to dig a revolver out of your jeans with some slime ball kicking your ass.
 
defjon said:
The NAA mini is worth having! So many varieties. They're all good and well made.

I also would love a 21a inox, but for the price the mini is probably more practical for that role.
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I'd like both, but having shot the .32 brother of the 21 A, I am fairly certain the 21A is easier to aim and shoot well in a bind than the mini-revolvers. You can absolutely aim the Beretta cat pistols out to 10 yards, and do a mag dump at self defense distances. Also, I think the 21A is only about $100 more than the mini-revolvers. It's the Tomcat .32 ACPs that are substantially more, i.e. $500.
 
chicharrones said:
Sounds perfectly acceptable for a gun you might only fire 1 or 2 magazines worth in self defense.
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Yeah definitely. I'd actually carry it more, as it is a handy pocket size. But, it was already used when I got it, and I don't want to wear it out. Tomcats are already known for frame crack with hot ammo. Mine hasn't thankfully, but I also have been fastidious about not using the hot ammo Beretta says not to use.

It's more of a fun range gun and just to have .32 ACP. However, it does run just fine and it could be pressed into service if necessary.
 
Jimbo80 said:
The term pocket pistol was coined during the times when men wore suit jackets all the time. To my mind stuffing a small gun in your jeans makes it too hard to deploy. Imagine trying to dig a revolver out of your jeans with some slime ball kicking your ass.
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Right and this is the one caveat. "Pocket Pistol" in 1920 is very different than what we consider it now. Back then with their big coat pockets, those were more subcompact or even compact size. What they called "vest pocket" is what we call today "pocket pistol" from my understanding. The vest pocket pistols were the .25 ACP Brownings, etc.
 
I think the kahr pm/cm9 would qualify as pocket pistols.

The build looks robust with dual captive recoil spring. Simple disassembly. Looks like it should hold up.

Any feedback on this gun?

9mm gives us superior power to a 38 or 380 from these small pistols.

14oz unloaded weight has the airweight and 238 beat.

I never see this model brought up much, but something of this weight and size seems like it could be feasible in most any situation.
 
defjon said:
I think the kahr pm/cm9 would qualify as pocket pistols.

The build looks robust with dual captive recoil spring. Simple disassembly. Looks like it should hold up.

Any feedback on this gun?

9mm gives us superior power to a 38 or 380 from these small pistols.

14oz unloaded weight has the airweight and 238 beat.

I never see this model brought up much, but something of this weight and size seems like it could be feasible in most any situation.
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Kahrs posted weight for the pm/cm9 do not include the weight of the empty magazine. So empty they are closer to 16oz. I had a pm 9 and after buying a p365 I sold it. They are very close in size when you use the Sigs flat base 10 round mag. Only 3oz difference in loaded weight.
 
1) I've never worn out a handgun.

2) I've owned many pocket pistols.

Just guessing...

The LCP types are probably not designed for shooting many thousands of rounds.

An average steel framed handgun/revolver probably lasts longer than aluminum, and aluminum probably lasts longer than polymer.

A handgun chambered in a less powerful round probably lasts longer than the same handgun chambered in a more powerful caliber.

A larger, heavier handgun in a certain caliber will probably last longer than a smaller, lighter handgun in that caliber.

So really, if you push the envelope and carry a steel 38 special or a barely pocket-sized metal 380acp, your handgun will probably last longer (and probably be easier to shoot).

I wouldn't expect an LCR to last as long as a Model 36, nor would I expect an LCP to last as long as Colt Government Model.

But the smaller, lighter ones are so much easier to carry.

I guess a lot of it's just trade-offs/compromises.
 
Tallball said:
1) I've never worn out a handgun.

2) I've owned many pocket pistols.

Just guessing...

The LCP types are probably not designed for shooting many thousands of rounds.

An average steel framed handgun/revolver probably lasts longer than aluminum, and aluminum probably lasts longer than polymer.

A handgun chambered in a less powerful round probably lasts longer than the same handgun chambered in a more powerful caliber.

A larger, heavier handgun in a certain caliber will probably last longer than a smaller, lighter handgun in that caliber.

So really, if you push the envelope and carry a steel 38 special or a barely pocket-sized metal 380acp, your handgun will probably last longer (and probably be easier to shoot).

I wouldn't expect an LCR to last as long as a Model 36, nor would I expect an LCP to last as long as Colt Government Model.

But the smaller, lighter ones are so much easier to carry.

I guess a lot of it's just trade-offs/compromises.
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Right, trade offs are real. Steel snubbies, or let's say my Bond Arms all steel derringer, can last for decades or even 100 years. However, they also can be too heavy for purpose in the short term, especially in lighter calibers. Maybe not everything is about durability. Reasonably so, yes, such as 10 or 20 years of reliable service life. But what other products do we require to last longer than that?

For most products, I need a reasonable service life for the cost, where the product is reliable during that period.

I need a car that can last 10 years without any problems. I don't need one, or want one, that can last 50 unless it's a collectible. Same with guns.
 
My example of a pocket pistol is a S&W M640 38 Spec serial number CEN* * * * marked TESTED FOR +P+.
 
Autodidactic said:
I don’t think 9mm subcompacts count as true pocket pistols. We have to define what a pocket pistol is.

I think many historic all metal pocket pistols hold up, such as the old Colts, Berettas etc. Maybe not the 21 A if you are right.

For modern micro .380’s, Glock 42 or Sig 238?

If we are including subcompact size, which I don’t usually, the original Shield 1.0’s are utterly reliable tanks. Quality snubbies usually are too.
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Well think again Sir. I have carried my KelTec PF9, which is only slightly larger than its .380 brother the P3-AT. I have close to 8,000 rounds and the gun is still as tight as it was when new, albeit the bluing of the slide is worn due to the leather pocket holster I carry it in. It has never failed to function properly and is scary accurate out to 25 yards, considering the size of the gun. I changed out the trigger with McCarbo replacement parts to make it more comfortable to shoot and which also aids in accurately shooting it. I carry the little hand cannon in everything from my jogging shorts pocket to my dress suit pocket. I own guns 3 to 10 times the value of the KelTec and it accompanies me everywhere I go either as my EDC or BUG.
 
Anyone remember when a semi-auto pistol smaller than a J-Frame revolver was called a Mousegun? And small semi-autos that fired something bigger than 9mm was called a Ratgun?

There was a website dedicated to it not too long ago, but the owner passed away if I recall correctly. https://web.archive.org/web/20120212094058/http://mouseguns.com/

And this was the defining document on size comparison before Handgun Hero existed. https://web.archive.org/web/20120502193851/http://mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.pdf

I sure miss that ol' website. Some interesting reading in there from a perspective a bit different than now. Seems like pocket sizes were debatable then, too.
 
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bigmike45 said:
Well think again Sir. I have carried my KelTec PF9, which is only slightly larger than its .380 brother the P3-AT. I have close to 8,000 rounds and the gun is still as tight as it was when new, albeit the bluing of the slide is worn due to the leather pocket holster I carry it in. It has never failed to function properly and is scary accurate out to 25 yards, considering the size of the gun. I changed out the trigger with McCarbo replacement parts to make it more comfortable to shoot and which also aids in accurately shooting it. I carry the little hand cannon in everything from my jogging shorts pocket to my dress suit pocket. I own guns 3 to 10 times the value of the KelTec and it accompanies me everywhere I go either as my EDC or BUG.
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I believe it. Somewhere in the thread I agreed that the smallest 9mm subcompacts are perhaps small enough to be "pocket pistols," such as yours or the Kahr.

I wouldn't mind a true micro 9 like that, although due to recoil I'm happier with .380 or .32 pocket pistols.

I just got in the mail from Midway my Desantis pocket holster for, gasp, my 642 .38 special ;). I wore it out today, but, in large summer shorts pockets. Midway also sent me some FBI Load .38, which completed the package for carry today.
 
chicharrones said:
Anyone remember when a semi-auto pistol smaller than a J-Frame revolver was called a Mousegun? And small semi-autos that fired something bigger than 9mm was called a Ratgun?

There was a website dedicated to it not too long ago, but the owner passed away if I recall correctly. https://web.archive.org/web/20120212094058/http://mouseguns.com/

And this was the defining document on size comparison before Handgun Hero existed. https://web.archive.org/web/20120502193851/http://mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.pdf

I sure miss that ol' website. Some interesting reading in there from a perspective a bit different than now. Seems like pocket sizes were debatable then, too.
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That second link is great, and guns on there I didn't even know about.

But, it goes to show, that virtually all of those pocket pistols were smaller than even a Jframe revolver, which is included for size comparison. This has been what I've been saying, J frames and most subcompact size guns are just outside the range of comfortable pocket carry, in most pockets.
 
. . .
Autodidactic said:
That second link is great, and guns on there I didn't even know about.

But, it goes to show, that virtually all of those pocket pistols were smaller than even a Jframe revolver, which is included for size comparison. This has been what I've been saying, J frames and most subcompact size guns are just outside the range of comfortable pocket carry, in most pockets.
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Read this old page. Starts off with a quote saying if a gun wont' fit into a jean pocket (as if only jeans count, but leaves out what type of jeans), but further along that page things open up to other possibilities.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120209190444/http://mouseguns.com/pocksize.htm

Amazingly, the now "antiquated" Glock 26/27 was considered the top end of a pocketable gun by some throughout that ol' website.
 
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And yeah, my first centerfire pocket gun was a Taurus 85UL snubbie. I carried it daily for many years in flat front khakis or jeans. I only got rid of it after 13 years because I traded it towards a 6-shot revolver, which ended up being a S&W K-frame snubnose belt gun.

Of course, I've added the Charter Arms Undercoverette shown elsewhere in this thread because it's the same size as that 85UL and fits into the same exact pockets. With 6 shots instead of 5.

An old pic of that 85UL on top of my G36 showing another perspective of why a spurless revolver can be easy to draw from a pocket. Of course, the size of that pocket depends on the pants and how those pants fit the wearer.

View attachment 1084301
 
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chicharrones said:
And yeah, my first centerfire pocket gun was a Taurus 85UL snubbie. I carried it daily for many years in flat front khakis or jeans. I only got rid of it after 13 years because I traded it towards a 6-shot revolver, which ended up being a S&W K-frame snubnose belt gun.

Of course, I've added the Charter Arms Undercoverette shown elsewhere in this thread because it's the same size as that 85UL and fits into the same exact pockets. With 6 shots instead of 5.

An old pic of that 85UL on top of my G36 showing another perspective of why a spurless revolver can be easy to draw from a pocket. Of course, the size of that pocket depends on the pants and how those pants fit the wearer.

View attachment 1084301
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I agree much easier and faster to draw hammerless revolver from front pocket than any auto.
 
I second the choice of a Seecamp LWS-32 in 32 ACP as the perfect pocket pistol assuming you use the correct ammo in it. In a Seecamp pocket holster, you could never tell it's in one's side or rear pocket. The 32 ACP HP will do it's job if you do yours!
 
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