Where are the 45 ACP micro compacts?

KarateHottie93 said:

I'd like to get the Heizer PKO but can't find one in person. Feel like if I don't just buy one sight unseen already I'll lose our for good. The AMT is another I've been looking for but can't find a 45 anywhere. It's the same with the Semmerling LM4. Plus it got the Forgotten Weapons treatment and is worth a fortune now.

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That is practically a mouse gun size. Would about fly right out of your hand on the recoil but for the finger in the trigger guard. Would love to see someone shoot that thing.

KarateHottie93 said:

I just won an XDS 45 for way over it’s market value. That’s okay though because I’ve wanted one of these for years after shooting my old manager’s. I saw a post recall one pop up locally at auction…everything included, and in FDE. Had to have it.

It got me thinking though…where are the micro compact 45’s? They’re making micro 10mm’s so why not a make 45? It’s still a great round. They’re also just fun to shoot. Capacity is a big deal to people but I can’t imagine it’s THAT big of a deal to most people. Also included a picture of my new XDS cause yeah…I’m super proud of it and it’s not even metal.

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I'm of the opinion that the "average" self defense shooting involves three or fewer rounds so I'm not worried about "capacity." Hence, I'm fine with six or seven rounds of .45 ACP and I have both the Kahr CW45 and the Shield 45. The recoil is similar and noticeable but not painful and I shoot the Shield slightly better, I think because the trigger has a "wall" like a Glock, which I like. The CW45 has a smooth trigger pull, like a revolver almost, and I'm always surprised when it fires. I would also like to try the XDS .45, but I wonder about the grip safety and problems that that might cause if I were under duress and had to use it with a less-than-ideal handle on it. On the other hand, the grip safety probably makes it safer to reholster. Guns -- like life itself -- are full of compromises....

GBExpat said:

Recoil. Just another case of different folks experiencing the same things differently sometimes ...

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True. For me, with a carry gun, recoil isn’t about pleasant or comfort. It’s all about how quickly I can make good hits, and how easily, especially moving or shooting fast strings.

Small .45s just don’t get me where I want to be against 9mm or .40. I spent some time trying a number of guns and many rounds of ammo, and the closest is the HK45c where I can get pretty reasonable splits, but the similarly sized Glock 19 (or the currently carried 365xl) is just easier to shoot fast and accurately.

I know folks push that 3 in 3 in 3 average that makes it’s rounds, but I don’t want to only think about the average or best case.

Plus, when considering times, folks will say “well what’s a few tenths of a second” and true, that does seem like not much but consider that 3 seconds talked about. Say your draw is 2 seconds till first round on target, that means you’ve got 1 second to shoot in your 3.

If your splits are .25 in 9mm and .3 in .45 (for example) that’s the difference of an entire round on target, another chance to hit, another chance to get that first hit since statistics show accuracy goes to crap when adrenaline really kicks in.

In service calibers I like more, faster and easier.

Of course, if performance is equal (good or bad) then the bigger bullet would be nice, and I do love me some .45 in a 1911 or Glock 21 for sure!

I have two that shoot really good. The smaller one is a Para Carry LDA that is cool.

Not exactly a “micro” but I picked up a Bul Ultra 1911 in .45 yesterday. It’s a sweet little gun! Size wise, it’s about the same size as my Sig P365XL (which does get called a micro). It will definitely be going into my carry rotation after some more break in!

The main problem is that if they made one, it would be relatively low capacity. I've had the XDS .45 before, not a bad gun, but in the same general size gun you could have 10+rds of 9mm. The size of the .45 ACP (and 10mm) make it so that really tiny guns chambered in them (comparative to 9mm) likely will never exist. Not just that, but with small size comes more recoil, many people complain on and on about recoil as it is, so a really small high recoiling low capacity .45 (that doesn't do great from short barrels) isn't really going to win the hearts of many.

Rock Island makes a double stack 1911 3" 45 ACP.

Detonics Combat Master is also a very nice subcompact 1911

They are out there but with today's crowd moving in the I can't handle the recoil and I need 15 rds direction they are just not popular. I have the Kimber TLEII Ultra and she is a sweet shooting .45. The main problem with compact .45s is what they will digest dependably. Ball ammo is no issue but when it comes to HPs that's another story. I finally ended up carrying Golden Sabers as they always fed 100% reliably. I still carry her from time to time but I shoot less .45 these days due to cost. ymmv

I like my Shield .45; not a PC, wish it was, though. [Would love to try a ported barrel...] Replaced the trigger with an Apex, got better Dawson sights, and never looked back.

I usually shoot it between 5 and 10yds; never thought of it as anything other than a compromise in performance vs general 'hideability'. Wouldn't want to rely on it reaching out and touching something at 25yds or more; for me, it's strictly an 'up-close-and-personal' hello.

The matrix of "wants" is complicated.
A micro magazine with only 4-5 rounds will not sell well.
A 10 round magazine is going to require a frame that is no longer "micro."
Ditto for weight.
Make it super light and it will be painful the shoot. Make it "heavy enough" and it will weigh too much to carry.

Compact is in the eyes of the beholder, too:

That's a SIG 365X on top of a Colt Officer's. The Colt is about 12mm longer. and perhaps 4mm wider. Weight is about the same.

chicharrones said:

Glock still makes the 36, but it's got a 1/2" more barrel length than the others that came after it.

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My EDC concealed carry. Glock 36 45 ACP 8 round w/Pierce +1 extender (no longer avaiable) w/Crimson Trace laser carried in an IWB Crossbreed holster. The Glock is a single stack which keeps the profile smaller.

CapnMac said:

The matrix of "wants" is complicated.
A micro magazine with only 4-5 rounds will not sell well.
A 10 round magazine is going to require a frame that is no longer "micro."
Ditto for weight.
Make it super light and it will be painful the shoot. Make it "heavy enough" and it will weigh too much to carry.

Compact is in the eyes of the beholder, too:
View attachment 1084842
That's a SIG 365X on top of a Colt Officer's. The Colt is about 12mm longer. and perhaps 4mm wider. Weight is about the same.

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Funny how measurements don’t always look and feel the same. As someone who carried an Officers 1911, as well as the roughly the same size and weight Glock 19, HK45C, and Sig 245, the 365XL feels much lighter and much more comfortable to me.

Despite being very close in size, as you note.

JR24 said:

Despite being very close in size, as you note.

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Yeah, "we" tend to consider things as individual items.
Yet, ergonomics tend to make things more the same, rather than more different.
Colt 380 Gov't Model on a SIG 365

Somewhere I have a comparison photo of the SIG and a Colt 1903, dang if I can find it now (very near identical other than weight).
But, here's a 365 and a 1911

About 20mm more grip, and easy 50mm more slide

My G30S hols 10rds. After a grip reduction I couldnt complain about the ergos. 4 1/2" threaded barrel so i can add a comp occasionally, also a low profile picatinny rear sight so i can add a dot when i want to.
Shooting light for caliber rounds reduces recoil. I use 135gr 45super and it recoils like ball ammo, but the standard pressure ones hardly recoil to where brass lands at the feet.
I can use the factory barrel, but i have plenty of hardcasts that i can use if i need to at the moment.

JR24 said:

Funny how measurements don’t always look and feel the same. As someone who carried an Officers 1911, as well as the roughly the same size and weight Glock 19, HK45C, and Sig 245, the 365XL feels much lighter and much more comfortable to me.

Despite being very close in size, as you note.

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One of the truest things in gun buying, especially in the advent of Gunbroker, Armslist, and the big online dealers like Buds or KYGunCo, is definitely that measurements on a gun often don't have much bearing on how compact or heavy they feel in hand! The 365XL feels almost impossibly light and comfortable while also being quite shootable.

I had the AMT DAO .45 Back-Up and didn’t find the recoil at all excessive. Much better than that snappy little bastard, the SA .380 Back-Up.

epags said:

My EDC concealed carry. Glock 36 45 ACP 8 round w/Pierce +1 extender (no longer avaiable) w/Crimson Trace laser carried in an IWB Crossbreed holster. The Glock is a single stack which keeps the profile smaller.View attachment 1084887

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Now a G36 owner would have to get the Hyve magazine extension.

Extension only
https://hyve-technologies.com/product/1-mag-base-pad-for-the-glock-36/

or entire magazine ready to go
https://hyve-technologies.com/product/preassembled-1-mag-base-for-the-glock-36/

KarateHottie93 said:

It got me thinking though…where are the micro compact 45’s? ...They’re also just fun to shoot.

Capacity is a big deal to people but I can’t imagine it’s THAT big of a deal to most people.

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Compact .45's are a fairly small niche firearm, now that micro 9mm's have become so widespread. I'm not really interested in anything shorter than my 4" Kimber 1911's, because as was mentioned, velocity really takes a hit below that. As far as recoil... everyone handles recoil different, some don't like the recoil on a certain pistol, but it may not be as big a factor on a similar but different pistol. Shooting different pistols can be 'interesting,' I don't know if I would call shooting a micro .45 'fun.' ...but, you never know. I've always had a curiosity for the Colt New Agent... an alloy-framed, 3" 1911 .45. The grip is big enough that it wouldn't be considered a micro or sub-compact, but that would work to my advantage, anyway, by giving me something to hold on to. Recoil, I'm sure, would be... a handful.

As I mentioned, I have 2 Kimber 4" 1911's... they are very similar in features, and identical in size... but one is stainless, one is alloy-framed. I'll tell you, I am not as fast and accurate with the alloy pistol as I am the heavier stainless pistol in rapid fire, and those two pistols fit my hand about as well as any pistol I've ever had. If you are carrying for SD purposes, however, I feel there is a point of diminishing returns going to a compact or sub-compact pistol... the key being able to draw, present, and fire the pistol with reasonable speed and accuracy. I don't shoot sub-compact pistols well in target shooting, let alone in draw and shoot drills, they just don't fit my hand well. Case in point... my daily carry piece is a choice between a Kahr CW9 or the smaller CM9. I quit carrying the CM9, largely because I simply suck at draw and shoot with it, vs the one round larger CW9. It's just too small... for me.

I've moved through the carry pieces over the years... from a AMT DAO .380, to a S&W Model 60, to a Colt Government .380, and finally to my Forever Gun... the Kahr CW9. Easy choice... when the loaded CW9 weighs less than the .380, and is roughly the same size.



FWIW, I used to shoot my AMT DAO .380 quite a bit, because I felt I needed to practice as much as I could with it. I shot it so much I cracked the slide... so I sent it back to AMT, who fitted a new slide to it. It was gone at the next gun show. I was actually looking for an AMT DAO .45... but after the failure with the .380, I changed my mind.

Magazine capacity is a funny thing... to some people it's a secondary factor, to others, it's 'the more the better.'

chicharrones said:

Now a G36 owner would have to get the Hyve magazine extension.

Extension only
https://hyve-technologies.com/product/1-mag-base-pad-for-the-glock-36/

or entire magazine ready to go
https://hyve-technologies.com/product/preassembled-1-mag-base-for-the-glock-36/

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I had seen the extension only by Hyve and thought them uggly and garrish.
However the entire magazine looks great.....thanks for the link.
Edit- Oh well, they are out of stock.

epags said:

I had seen the extension only by Hyve and thought them uggly and garrish.
However the entire magazine looks great.....thanks for the link.
Edit- Oh well, they are out of stock.

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Not sure why people never check eBay. I know there can be some scammers, but a lot of manufacturers sell directly on eBay. Looks like hive has their own eBay store with 100% positive feedback.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3236601730...c3W6_6LSuG&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

I had a Kahr PM45 (5+1) but found 10+1 9mm in a G26 carried just as easy.

Tallball said:

45acp is just kind of big for a "micro pistol".

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CapnMac said:

They are out there, but, you get into some hard compromises pretty quickly.
Down to a certain size, they get uncomfortable to shoot
And, there's the capacity reduction, too.

So, more rounds generally equals more bulk which does not equal "compact."

Lower the weight, and back to uncomfortable to shoot.

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That's pretty much how I feel. Too many compromises for me, but if it works for you, go for it.