1911 kimber vs s&w

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sharp tooth

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Looking at getting a 1911 I’ve narrowed down to the smith and Wesson performance center stainless or kimber rapide thinking black ice edition.
Price points similar 1500? for the smith and 1800 for the kimber. My main concerns

I have been told kimber quality has gone down hill? Is this just typical Covid under staff poorly trained new staff? Also I’ve been told kimber is picky on certain ammo?
The s&w goes well into my collection of many others s&w but feeling my guns may want diversity?

Does any one have either or both of these with limited supplies I can’t exactly walk into gun store/cabelas and compare side by side but most 1911 are going to be very silimar right?
As far as break down for cleaning they both should come apart the same correct? I know my dads colt cadet has a special tool which is fine but takes more time to deal with.
 
Some people are turned off by the non-traditional extractor of the Smith. But it works. Not that exact version, but the 2 Smith & Wesson 1911's I had were the 2 best ones I've ever owned.
 
Viers said:
I have both & both are fine pistols & mine work perfectly but I've taken steps to be sure that they do.

If you cannot resolve minor issues for yourself, today, I recommend S&W over Kimber for a variety of reasons as I think your likelihood of getting a good one right out of the box is a little higher.

S&W also has a lifetime warranty; Kimber's warranty & service can be less than good..........I also don't believe that a gun needs 500-1,000 rounds to perform reliably, but that is likely the logic you will get with Kimber for any reliability issues you may have during that period with the gun. The mantra is "you have to break it in".

If you get a S&W, get one of the newer E-Series as it does not have the FPS system, unless, of course, you prefer that feature.
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What is the fps system? Also I did deal with some break in issues feeding my diamond back 380 about 30-40 rounds randomly jam maybe 1 out of 5. That’s worked it’s self out never heard of a 500-1000 break in that’s a lot of brass!
 
Those are both $700 guns, tops.

$1500 is darn close to DW land. A fully loaded melonite nitride black Dan Wesson Valor is $2100, and my recommendation. Avoid SS DW's, they're cheaper, for a reason.
 
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Have used both guns. Both are reliable and accurate, maybe with a slight edge in overall finish to S&W.

At a $1500 price point I would agree with my fellow members who recommend you might want to look at a Dan Wesson instead.

Your money, your choice.
 
No way that I would spend that on either of those brands . I have a Dan Wesson , but I will add that it did have to go back to the factory for repairs . It didn’t make it through it’s first range session . They did repair it in a reasonable time and no problems since .
 
S&W actually has a Performance Center that puts guns together that may have higher production value than their E-Series guns. Whether those features are worth the upgrade to you, is your call.

Kimber on the other - all of their guns are put together the same. There is no extra care that goes into a higher priced Kimber than a lower priced Kimber in their 1911 line-up. The only difference typically between the Rapid and the TLE II ( https://www.kimberamerica.com/custom-tle-ii ) is "bling".
 
sharp tooth said:
As far as break down for cleaning they both should come apart the same correct? I know my dads colt cadet has a special tool which is fine but takes more time to deal with.
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Each will have an oddity that separates them from the typical 1911.

Kimber 1911's with a "II" (that's a 2) designation will have a Swartz-style firing pin safety that is activated/deactivated by the grip safety. Kimber is the only company that uses this style of firing pin safety.

S&W 1911's have an external extractor. S&W and SIG are possibly the only two (at least production level guns) that use an external extractor. All other 1911's use an internal extractor.
 
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sharp tooth said:
Looking at getting a 1911 I’ve narrowed down to the smith and Wesson performance center ...
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Viers said:
If you get a S&W, get one of the newer E-Series as it does not have the FPS system, unless, of course, you prefer that feature.
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sharp tooth said:
What is the fps system?
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An S&W Performance Center 1911 should not have a firing pin safety, though it is correct the E-Series models also don't have a firing pin safety.
 
Ok so going toward Dan Wesson I find this I do like is this what all of you guys are telling me is a better quality??
 

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No, that's the base SS model.

It's better quality, but foolish to pass up DW's black duty treat.

Bead blast SS finish is weaker than tissue paper. Itll show smooth spots immediately with any holster use, and never look "cool worn".

Valor and Specialist would be my go to's. In .45 with govt or commander sizes only.
 
sharp tooth said:
Ok so going toward Dan Wesson I find this I do like is this what all of you guys are telling me is a better quality??
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If you want adjustable sights, that's fine, but note not all 1911's have the same sight dovetails and not all sight options are available for all sight dovetails. The pictured Dan Wesson has an adjustable rear sight and the other two you are considering have fixed rear sights and will sit in different dovetails.

Here are some common 1911 rear sight dovetails.

https://kensight.com/common-1911-sight-dovetails/
 
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At the price being asked for a DW these days they are hardly the unique value of yesteryear. Since we have muddied the waters already, Springfield is my suggestion, keep the excess cash for anything you care to change starting with better fitting stocks.
 
I’d take an SW1911PD Scandium over most Dan Wesson’s.

In general I prefer S&W to nearly all other 1911s. Particularly a PD Scandium version.

I saw one of these for sale recently for well south of $1500.

All that said, my go to 45 and 9mm are both Glocks these days.
 
I had a S&W and several Kimbers. IMHO, both were of like quality as to fit and finish. My S&W had a very strong firing pin plunger spring, and sometimes the hammer would drop without the FPS being disengaged, resulting in a click rather than a bang. Otherwise both good guns.
 
For $1,500.00 (and maybe a little more), unless you're stuck on a purely 1911 platform, I'd spend some time and effort looking for one of the finest .45 autos ever made: the discontinued Smith & Wesson Model 945 (sort of a blend between "Third Generation" Smiths and a 1911). These pistols were made in the "Performance Center" part of the Smith & Wesson factory when they really were special.
 
I've heard so many bad reviews of kimbers. Greg Elifritz is a retired LEO with years of teaching firearm training courses, I value his experience and this post says enough to make me steer clear of kimbers. Screenshot_20220628-165708_Gallery.jpg
 
JTQ said:
S&W and SIG are possibly the only two (at least production level guns) that use an external extractor.
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For a while, Kimber went to an external extractor.

If you are into bling, Kimber takes the cake... you won't find anyone with a pistol like the Rapide Ice Ice Baby (or Black Ice, whatever...) If you want a serviceable pistol with some features, it's wide open. I like Kimbers... I have 3. They are not very blingy, just really reliable service pistols. Kimber picked up their bad QC reputation in the mid-2000's, IMHO likely deservedly so to some extent. They seemed to have cleaned their act up a bit, and I would have no problem shopping for a Kimber today... with the understanding that every manufacturer kicks out a lemon or two now and then.
 
So much information for a 1 day post. It becomes concerning to me to buy a 1911 at this point just off of Varying opinions that each manufacturer in this price range I am finding has a lot of negatives staking up against it besides the duty coated Dan Wesson. I’ll have to further look into if I want to drop the money on a Dan Wesson if I can even locate one.
 
When I moonlighting at an indoor range/gun store, the only gun I've seen thrown downrange out of anger is a Kimber. The gun store refuses to sell them due to high return rate and rust out of the box.

I've had 1 good Kimber (Clackamas made), 1 so-so Kimber and 2 others from Yonkers that were single shots.

Yes, you may have a fine specimens, but to me, it is the promag of 1911s
 
Stainless DW is fine. Read the manual and follow the break in procedure. Keep your rails oiled.
 
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