9mm vs 380

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bannockburn said:
Spats McGee


Then maybe you should try something like the Colt Government .380, Colt Mustang, Kimber Micro Carry .380, Browning 1911 .380, or the SIG P238, to experience the effectiveness of delayed blowback in a .380. Felt recoil is next to nothing as is muzzle flip and it's easier and faster to get your sights back on target. Both Colts, the Kimber, the Browning, and the SIG are also very ergonomic, owing a number of things of their design features to the 1911. Likewise their single action triggers and better sights also help with achieving better overall accuracy.
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12Bravo20 said:
I mentioned these pistols too. They are an excellent choice in 380. And so is the original Star Model D that all of these are based on. One won't go wrong with the Colt, Kimber, Sig, or Springfield Armory versions of this little single action pistol. The S&W EZ is also another good choice too.
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jar said:
I may qualify as an older guy so here are a few observations.

First, the caliber that I carry most often over the last few decades has been 32acp/7.65mm.

I also have and have carried (actually today my carry is a 9mm Parabellum. Remember, .3800 is a 9mm caliber.) I find that the choice of handgun can make a world of difference often even more than the caliber.

But why 32auto/32acp/7.65mm ammunition as a carry choice?

For much of modern firearm history the 32acp was considered a reasonable self defense and even military handgun option. For that reason there are a whole herd of pistols available chambered in that caliber and it was used as a valid service handgun by almost every major nation including the US. The caliber is easier to control and to repeat shots. It's far more reliable and effective than 22LR, far more controllable and pleasant to shoot than .380/9mm Browning Short or 9mmParablellum.

It is available in both smaller more easily concealable handguns and larger double stack higher capacity ones, in single action, DA/SA. hammer fired and striker fired versions. There are heavier ones that absorb even more of the recoil and lighter ones that are more comfortable to carry.

There are versions that are currently being made and far far more older yet still superb and reliable ones. In taking a personal inventory not too long ago I realized that I actually own more 32acp handguns than 9mm Parabellum, .380 and 9mm Makarov chambered pistols combined.

In revolvers there is also the 32 caliber family of rimmed cartridges ranging from the mildest but still more than a 22LR for both reliability and effectiveness all the way up to some pretty powerful magnums.

One in particular I'd suggest you consider is the Beretta 80 series 32acps. There is a the 81 that is a double stack and the 82 that is a slimmer single stack. The Cheetah is a DA/SA action with a manual safety.

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Nice guns, but the thing is almost all of those are expensive, and for many of us will end up safe queens/kings. All of the mentioned ones are $600 or more new. Some more than that.

Given the issues with micro .380 recoil for many people (I don't mind it), I honestly think .32 ACP is the best pocket pistol caliber. I mean for true micro pocket pistols, not Shields, not Jframes etc.
 
One quick note:

All the guns that SPATS listed are single action pistols. If you are an experienced shooter, then they are not a problem. If you are NOT an experienced shooter, they are a disaster waiting to happen when you need them, in my opinion. To carry them for quick use, you either carry a round in the chamber with the hammer cocked and safety on or leave the chamber empty with a full magazine and rack the slide when you need it, which assumes that you can rack the slide if attacked (you may be busy trying to block punches, quick or knives).
My question is will you remember to do that. Police departments, federal agencies and the military don't think so and either issue double action or GLOCK style safe action pistols. My experience is that they are right. Cocked and locked works great for very experienced shooters, but should be avoided for less experienced ones.

Jim
 
I'm 65, so behind you but not a lot. I got rid of anything greater than a 9mm except for a revolver. I carry either a Sig P238 in .380 or a Sig P365 in 9mm. The P238 is heavy enough that recoil is ok. Might have to look at the Kimbers though.
 
Considering a LLama (Eiber) .380 III-A with a "T" date code so made in 1949. Back in the early sixties there was an article on the Llama 9mm Corto 5/9th scale 1911 style handguns in the annual "Shooter's Bible" (I wonder if it's still being published). A friend bought one and let me try it and other than it having a return spring I could have used as a shock for my '50 Chevy Coupe it was fantastic. So when I saw this one at an unbelievably high price at my LGS I had to at least make an offer.
 
golden said:
One quick note:

All the guns that SPATS listed are single action pistols. If you are an experienced shooter, then they are not a problem. If you are NOT an experienced shooter, they are a disaster waiting to happen when you need them, in my opinion. To carry them for quick use, you either carry a round in the chamber with the hammer cocked and safety on or leave the chamber empty with a full magazine and rack the slide when you need it, which assumes that you can rack the slide if attacked (you may be busy trying to block punches, quick or knives).
My question is will you remember to do that. Police departments, federal agencies and the military don't think so and either issue double action or GLOCK style safe action pistols. My experience is that they are right. Cocked and locked works great for very experienced shooters, but should be avoided for less experienced ones.

Jim
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I won't argue with this as far as new shooters that have-not been around guns much at all or are younger. Most of us old timers grew up when single action hammer fired was the most common type of action in both revolvers and pistols.

And it doesn't matter what type of handgun or action you go with, you still need to practice and become proficient with it. Outside of the Army, I have always carried my single action pistols cocked and locked with one in the chamber. And that is how I train. I even find myself sweeping the safety off on my striker fired pistols that do not have a safety. But again that is how I trained over all these years.

Now if we were to argue and/or say go with the most simplest design for a new user, that would have to be a revolver. But the OP asked about semi-auto pistols in 380 or 9mm.

jar said:
Considering a LLama (Eiber) .380 III-A with a "T" date code so made in 1949. Back in the early sixties there was an article on the Llama 9mm Corto 5/9th scale 1911 style handguns in the annual "Shooter's Bible" (I wonder if it's still being published). A friend bought one and let me try it and other than it having a return spring I could have used as a shock for my '50 Chevy Coupe it was fantastic. So when I saw this one at an unbelievably high price at my LGS I had to at least make an offer.
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I have a Llama III-A and it is a joy to shoot, accurate at self defense ranges, and just good looking. I use to carry it quite a bit. I only stopped since parts are pretty much non existent and also since there are better choices available. The III-A still resides in my safe and I do take it out now and then to shoot.
 
For new shooters, I think that the S&W Shield EZ in .380ACP may be the best choice of any .380ACP pistol. Once your experienced with it, you would have a better point of reference to choose something else.
For shooters with limited hand strength or many seniors, I think the EZ is the best idea since sliced bread. It allows my wife to shoot and operate the pistol without problems.

Jim
 
golden said:
It allows my wife to shoot and operate the pistol without problems.
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Mine too, and as I've stated many times, my wife has some fairly severe arthritis in her right thumb joint that there's little doubt is the result of her running thousands upon thousands of full-house 44 Magnum loads through a couple of Ruger Super Blackhawks during our IHMSA days back in the 80s. Yet she can run a hundred rounds through her S&W Shield EZ .380ACP in about an hour without a problem - she did just that when we completed the Idaho "Enhanced" Concealed Carry Class together. :)
Just don't tell my wife a Shield EZ in 9mm doesn't kick any harder than her Shield EZ in .380 ACP. Our oldest daughter carries a Shield EZ in 9mm, and she told my wife, "It doesn't kick any harder than the Shield EZ 380 I used to have." So, my wife tried it, and she said, "It does too kick harder!" :eek:
The thing is, our oldest daughter is a couple of dozen years younger than my wife, and she doesn't have any arthritis in her right thumb joint. I've also stated before that when it comes to recoil, perception is everything. Well, "perception" might not be everything when it comes to recoil, but perception sure has a lot to do with it. ;)
 
9s more powerful, but 380s more concealable. Neither does you any good if you don’t carry it, so I carry the 380.
 
I wonder if they would ever make a Glock 43x side 380. You could probably pack alot of rounds into something like that.
 
Catpop said:
9s more powerful, but 380s more concealable. Neither does you any good if you don’t carry it, so I carry the 380.
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Not meant to be argumentative but ones physical build is a determination in ones ability to conceal as an example a S&W Shield 9X19mm. I am no lard barge thus I do not have a concealment problem.
 
OtherMikeG,

I agree that the SIG 232 was a good looking pistol, but it was more than a pretty face. It was reliable, accurate and had many, modern useful features. Mine had night sights, very comfortable, ergonomic grips and the excellent SIG hammer de-cocker which I think is still the best of its kind. One other really nice feature was the easy to use, frame mounted dis-assembly lever. All in all, it was a great design and among the best available
Now for the bad news. It was hard for some to rack the slide, lacked a manual hold up device and recoil was stronger than more modern designs like the S&W EZ 380ACP. The S&W is also easier when it comes to loading the magazine.
Also, for persons of small stature, the long double action is a challenge.
As I hit my sixth decade, I started cocking the hammer of the 232 before racking the slide. This is not a dangerous procedure on the SIG due to the firing interrupter mechanism, but is less safe than just racking the slide. However, age can effect gun handling just as everything else.
On the other hand, I found the SIG 232 to be more accurate than the S&W EZ.

Jim
 
My Sig 230 is the old-fashioned kind. It's a well-made pistol and a good shooter. Its trigger is okay. Its reliability and accuracy are very good... pretty much identical to my Makarov and Hungarian PP clone. They're all variations of the same design. They are fun pistols to shoot and I would not feel unarmed holding any of them.

That being said, my Glock 43 and Ruger LC9s pro are (IIRC) a little smaller and and lighter and hold roughly the same amount of rounds. Their sights and triggers are much better. They all recoil about the same to me (not much). I don't even have to think about caliber before it's obvious the modern pistols would be better choices for CC.

My only 380 carry piece is a micro 380, because I can carry it when I can't carry something larger.

Here's the Sig, and the 380 that seems the best (in my modest collection) for OWB carry. :)


Sig P230

Sig P230


Beretta Model 84

Beretta Model 84

 
When I first got my concealed permit in Texas 2006, I qualified with my Khar CW 45. First ones off the assembly line and paid darn near 800 bucks for it at the time. Berretta Tomcat came next. Then, resurrected my old Charter Arms Undercover from 1972. Then came a Keltec 9MM, then came the Charter Arms "Boomer" 2" .44spl.. ..Then a NAA .22 magnum...Then I finally settled on a Keltec .380 which I always grab so matter how hot and dressed down I am.
That and a spare mag and I'm ready to go...On all my re-qualifications I always used my Colt .45 Government model.
 
VIERS,

I think that you are missing the point in the .380ACP, 9m.m. and .38 Special argument. No one disputes the power advantage of a 9m.m. over the .380ACP, but you cannot get around the recoil. If you are having problems controlling a small 9m.m., then the .380ACP might be the answer. After all, only hits are going to count in a gunfight.
I
love my BERETTA 92 Compact, but the day may come when I cannot shoot it anymore. My S&W EZ .380ACP will probably then replace the BERETTA. The EZ really does live up to its name. It is a very easy gun to shoot.
My BERETTA 84 has the advantage of a 13 shot magazine and is very accurate and easy to shoot, but will I be able to rack the slide for the rest of my life? I don't know. Time will tell, if not, there is still the EZ.

While you can get small and light 5 shot .38 Specials, you usually also get significant recoil. I can still shoot a J-frame size .38 Special, but I switched to a steel frame model 36 to replace my alloy frame model 38. It was easier to shoot. I also switched away from +P ammo as that also helps cut recoil. Now, when I want to shoot a .38 Special, it is usually in my S&W model 15 (a 2 pound, K-frame 6 shot revolver) or my RUGER Security Six, which is about the same size. They are a pleasure to shoot, but not that concealable.

Everything is a compromise in life. You cannot get really small and powerful pistols that are easy to everyone to control.

Jim
 
12Bravo20 said:
When asked why I carry a 380 at times I always reply; It is better to have a 380 in my pocket than the 45 left at home.
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Why not buying a pallet of RM380's ( at under $150+ 5 mags ) remains another nagging missed opportunity. The only downside is they are so comfortable to carry you have to remember its there in an emergency. I also wonder if CA doxing all CCW permit holders might affect caliber choices?
 
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