High Wall

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david58

david58

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High Country New Mexico
Does anyone have experience with the Uberti/Pedersoli High Wall in 45-70? I know I'd have to shoot a different bullet in it than in my Trapdoor, but am very curious about how well yours might be shooting with BP.

David
NM
 
Curious as to why you would "have to shoot a different bullet"? A 405g projectile has been the standard for that cartridge in many different models.

Dave
 
Yes, explain different bullet. Pretty sure you could shoot any bullet, of the proper diameter, give or take a couple inches. ! I had a very hard time deciding between a Trapdoor Carbine, and the Pedersoli High Wall. I wound up choosing the Trapdoor, as it was about three hundred dollars cheaper. But the High Wall in .45 U.S. Government is a very cool rifle.
 
Ugly Sauce said:
Yes, explain different bullet. Pretty sure you could shoot any bullet, of the proper diameter, give or take a couple inches. ! I had a very hard time deciding between a Trapdoor Carbine, and the Pedersoli High Wall. I wound up choosing the Trapdoor, as it was about three hundred dollars cheaper. But the High Wall in .45 U.S. Government is a very cool rifle.
Click to expand...
I had an Uberti 1885 for a while but sold it when I saw this rolling block!
DSC00014

DSC00014

 
My Winchester "high wall" Single Shot is a .38-55, not a .45-70, but it shoots well with black.

If the OP's Trapdoor is a 19th century original, it may differ in groove diameter from the current standard of .458", probably larger. Maybe enough larger to do better with a different bullet. If it is a modern reproduction it will likely have the same barrel specs as any other .45-70 repro.
 
Well, D-58 said Uberti/Pedersoli (?) so it's probably spot on at .458", and his Trapdoor bore could indeed be very "generous". However, a sizing die would fix that.

A Jacketed bullet that works well with BP is the Speer 400 grain JSP. I shoot that in my JM Marlin over 80 grains of 3fg Swiss. I got a 1" group at 100 yards out of it. Actually two two shot 1" groups, and one three shot, 1" group.
 
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You outta figure out your bore diameter and rate of twist, that info will get you headed in the right direction as to what bullet to use. I built a rolling block that likes a 350 to 405 gr bullet. My trap door likes a 250 gr pistol bullet. The roller has a modern Green Mountain barrel with a relatively fast twist, the trap door has a slower twist.
 
Hello David58,

I have a Uberti 1885 in 45-70. Straight stock with crescent butt plate and 30" barrel.
I tried shooting the LEE 457-405-F but it kicked like a mule, even with trapdoor loads.
So I then switched to the RCBS 45-300-FN, it still lets you know there is something there.
I have not tried Black Powder. My intentions were to shoot Goex Clear Shot in it,
but the plant had an explosion and it wasn't available at the time I needed it so I used IMR 3031.
It is a very well shooting rifle, and cleanly downed my first Buffalo at 114 yards.
One thing different from my original 1885, the hammer lands on 1/2 cock when closing the lever,
my original leaves the hammer at full cock. Uberti makes a beautiful rifle.

AntiqueSledMan. IMG_79.jpg
 
Thanks, all!

The difference in the bullet has to do with the use of the old Federal (as in gov't) load in the rifle - the 405 grain has to be hollow-based in order to flare out and engage the rifling. Must remember that the Trapdoor was a catrtidge rifle using Minie technology. I load mine with the full 70 grains of black (I should say loaded, I traded away my first one, this Trapdoor hasn't been shot by me yet) under a 500 gr bullet - alloyed a bit with tin, the 500 grain has enough inertia that the base will obturate and engage the rifling, and therefore doesn't need the hollow base.

From what I have seen - and I am no expert - the BP load based on the original shoots reliably, and with SPG lube is pretty clean. My friends shooting duplex or smokeless had to do a lot, A LOT, of experimentation to get a load worked up. I believe that had to do with the size of the bore, the desire to use hard alloy or jacketed bullets, etc etc.

I have never shot a smokeless 45/70 load, but can imagine that one could easily build a load that would loosen your fillings. In the Trapdoor RIFLE, the 45-70-500 is not so bad to shoot, if shooting offhand or properly off cross sticks. Off the bench, not for me, and certainly not in a carbine. I am thinking the High-wall is heavy enough that I could shoot it all day with no ill effects, as that heavy barrel makes it substantially heavier than the Trapdoor. But the modern rifling will likely have me going with that different bullet, even if I shoot the BP load. If I pull the trigger and buy the HW, I will get to find out. Problem is, I HATE reloading - going to have to figure out a way to make it fun, I guess.
 
david58 said:
Thanks, all!

The difference in the bullet has to do with the use of the old Federal (as in gov't) load in the rifle - the 405 grain has to be hollow-based in order to flare out and engage the rifling. Must remember that the Trapdoor was a catrtidge rifle using Minie technology. I load mine with the full 70 grains of black (I should say loaded, I traded away my first one, this Trapdoor hasn't been shot by me yet) under a 500 gr bullet - alloyed a bit with tin, the 500 grain has enough inertia that the base will obturate and engage the rifling, and therefore doesn't need the hollow base.

From what I have seen - and I am no expert - the BP load based on the original shoots reliably, and with SPG lube is pretty clean. My friends shooting duplex or smokeless had to do a lot, A LOT, of experimentation to get a load worked up. I believe that had to do with the size of the bore, the desire to use hard alloy or jacketed bullets, etc etc.

I have never shot a smokeless 45/70 load, but can imagine that one could easily build a load that would loosen your fillings. In the Trapdoor RIFLE, the 45-70-500 is not so bad to shoot, if shooting offhand or properly off cross sticks. Off the bench, not for me, and certainly not in a carbine. I am thinking the High-wall is heavy enough that I could shoot it all day with no ill effects, as that heavy barrel makes it substantially heavier than the Trapdoor. But the modern rifling will likely have me going with that different bullet, even if I shoot the BP load. If I pull the trigger and buy the HW, I will get to find out. Problem is, I HATE reloading - going to have to figure out a way to make it fun, I guess.
Click to expand...

I LOVE reloading. ! That's interesting, different strokes for different folks. Anyhow, recoil is so subjective, the carbine being too much for some, I can shoot mine all day with the 405 grain rifle load, which in my case is 72 grains of 3fg Swiss. I think BP is the way to go, but a modern High Wall will certainly work fine with smokeless, and or jacketed bullets. But I'm kind of a "Black Powder Only" guy. I also use SPG in my .45-70 loads.

I will differ with you on the 405 bullet needing or depending on the hollow base. In original form, that hollow base is very small. I have two molds for that bullet, and on one I eliminated the hollow and made it a flat base. Both bullets shoot the same, in both my Trapdoors, with the non-hollow base weighing a bit more. (416 grains from my mold) But that's from my rifles, all them-thar rifles are different, and your results may vary!

Well dang, if you have the bucks, and want a High-Wall, what the heck are you waiting for?

Below is what my carbine will do at 100 yards with the flat-base 405 from the LEE mold, and 72 grains of 3fg Swiss. It is actually slightly more accurate than my rifle.
DSC01596.JPG
 
AntiqueSledMan said:
Hello David58,

I have a Uberti 1885 in 45-70. Straight stock with crescent butt plate and 30" barrel.
I tried shooting the LEE 457-405-F but it kicked like a mule, even with trapdoor loads.
So I then switched to the RCBS 45-300-FN, it still lets you know there is something there.
I have not tried Black Powder. My intentions were to shoot Goex Clear Shot in it,
but the plant had an explosion and it wasn't available at the time I needed it so I used IMR 3031.
It is a very well shooting rifle, and cleanly downed my first Buffalo at 114 yards.
One thing different from my original 1885, the hammer lands on 1/2 cock when closing the lever,
my original leaves the hammer at full cock. Uberti makes a beautiful rifle.

AntiqueSledMan.View attachment 1087813
Click to expand...

I am so jealous, I want to get me a Buff with my 1861 Springfield rifle.
DSC07207.JPG
 
Right, safety, or the "idiot proof" or "lawyer proof" consideration. Just thinking about it, there must be an additional mechanism that does that, and may be as easy as just removing those parts. ?
 
Ugly Sauce said:
Dang. You must have enough cream-0-wheat under that to serve breakfast for four. !!! :rofl:
Click to expand...
I never shoot breakfast out of a gun barrel!! I fill the case with black powder and seat the bullet. Sometimes I shoot Pyrodex, works quite nicely. The pistol bullet works well in the trapdoor, it's a light rifle and with the 405 gr bullets it gets brutal real fast, plus it ain't particularly accurate with the heavier bullets.
 
Jackrabbit1957 said:
I never shoot breakfast out of a gun barrel!! I fill the case with black powder and seat the bullet. Sometimes I shoot Pyrodex, works quite nicely. The pistol bullet works well in the trapdoor, it's a light rifle and with the 405 gr bullets it gets brutal real fast, plus it ain't particularly accurate with the heavier bullets.
Click to expand...

Oh good, my bad. Just made that assumption! Well then, with a full case that pistola bullet must really be zipping along! Glad to hear you are not one of "those guys". !!!!
 
Jim Watson said:
First case I have heard of a revolver bullet shooting well from a rifle. 1873 types, that is.
Click to expand...

Who would have thunk? That's kind of why I assumed it was a reduced load with a filler. But again, man that little bullet must really be screaming along!
 
Back in the day there was the "collar button" bullet for practice but I was more interested in a nominal .452-.454" revolver bullet doing well in a typical .458-.462" Trapdoor barrel. But maybe his aren't nominal or typical.
 
Now I would assume Jack is using a much bigger bullet than .45 Colt size. But, with that much powder behind it, maybe it would bump-up that much. ??
 
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