Why doesn't Pietta and Uberti make thier revolvers more reliable?

I pretty much run my guns without doing anything to them. Sometimes they need a little smoothing here and there but then so do a lot of higher priced modern guns. I run stock nipples and stock springs and never had an issue with either. I do address the Uberti short arbors. I have more issues with the obese Pietta grips and ridiculously tall front sights on Remington revolvers than I do the internal workings.
 
brewer12345 said:
Great. Have at it and put as much money into your revolver as you like. If there were a market for what you want, the manufacturers would presumably be all over it. Heck, you can't even buy a new Ruger old army any more because there isn't a market for it.
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Yep, well, it's like the Automobile world. Some folks buy brand new high-end cars and spend loads on upgrades. There's a reason the manufacturer doesn't sell them that way - cost , individuality, too many other possibilities to "guess" what a niche market would want.

Fortunately, the bp revolver crowd seems to be into - reliability, low maintenance, close tolerance.

Seems some folks would rather spend $600 and have a "lifetime" revolver than 2 mediocre $300 throw aways ( over time of course). Something for everybody.

Mike
 
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hawg said:
I don't know what you're doing to your springs but I've been doing this since 1969 and can't remember breaking a trigger/bolt spring.
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Well, I have Pietta 1851 Navy, and same part broke three times on me, hand with spring assembly (the little arm that moves the cylinder and actually makes the clicking sound when you rotate it). That little leaf spring keeps breaking, I assume it is made from really crappy quality material. It is really my bad, instead of ordering factory replacement parts, I should look for higher quality kit elsewhere.
 
Hello Rival,

My opinion is that flat springs will not last forever.
I had 45 Dragoon rework my 1851 Fantasy Revolver,
he installed a coil spring & plunger on the Hand and
wrapped coil springs on the Bolt & Trigger along with timing.
No that's one sweet action revolver.

AntiqueSledMan.
 
AntiqueSledMan said:
Hello Rival,

My opinion is that flat springs will not last forever.
I had 45 Dragoon rework my 1851 Fantasy Revolver,
he installed a coil spring & plunger on the Hand and
wrapped coil springs on the Bolt & Trigger along with timing.
No that's one sweet action revolver.

AntiqueSledMan.
Click to expand...

Hard to believe just how sweet these revolvers are after being re-worked by a good 'smith such as Jack or Goon. I shot my 1860 for probably 30 years and was happy with it, (other than the dropping rammer syndrome) but after getting all the goodies and tuning by Jack, dang, no, I'll say it, DAMN, what a revolver! And my 1862, it went from cap-jam every other shot, or worse, in spite of every internet and Youtube fix, to 100% reliable.

On the whole issue of what is "good enough" for just shooting, paper punching, killing pop cans or fruit and vegetables, or "built to a price point", that's very debatable. For my purposes, packing a C&B revolver deep into the mountains, timing issues and malfunctions of any kind are unacceptable. My revolvers are important parts of my "kit" when I'm a couple-three-four-five miles into/up a drainage on a 7,000ft ridge in grizz country. (no, not for protection against bears, but other survival purposes and general sidearm utility) So it's not just competition that requires the level of functionality that a good 'smith can provide. But even for just plinking, it's worth it to have a pistol that feels and functions that good. Who would want a nice Smith and Wesson with a gritty action, and a cylinder that over-rotated, or primers that backed out and froze up the gun?
 
Ugly Sauce said:
Hard to believe just how sweet these revolvers are after being re-worked by a good 'smith such as Jack or Goon. I shot my 1860 for probably 30 years and was happy with it, (other than the dropping rammer syndrome) but after getting all the goodies and tuning by Jack, dang, no, I'll say it, DAMN, what a revolver! And my 1862, it went from cap-jam every other shot, or worse, in spite of every internet and Youtube fix, to 100% reliable.

On the whole issue of what is "good enough" for just shooting, paper punching, killing pop cans or fruit and vegetables, or "built to a price point", that's very debatable. For my purposes, packing a C&B revolver deep into the mountains, timing issues and malfunctions of any kind are unacceptable. My revolvers are important parts of my "kit" when I'm a couple-three-four-five miles into/up a drainage on a 7,000ft ridge in grizz country. (no, not for protection against bears, but other survival purposes and general sidearm utility) So it's not just competition that requires the level of functionality that a good 'smith can provide. But even for just plinking, it's worth it to have a pistol that feels and functions that good. Who would want a nice Smith and Wesson with a gritty action, and a cylinder that over-rotated, or primers that backed out and froze up the gun?
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Very good points.
 
45 Dragoon said:
Yep, well, it's like the Automobile world. Some folks buy brand new high-end cars and spend loads on upgrades. There's a reason the manufacturer doesn't sell them that way - cost , individuality, too many other possibilities to "guess" what a niche market would want.

Fortunately, the bp revolver crowd seems to be into - reliability, low maintenance, close tolerance.

Seems some folks would rather spend $600 and have a "lifetime" revolver than 2 mediocre $300 throw aways ( over time of course). Something for everybody.

Mike
Click to expand...

You just had to drag me outta the closet dint you?
 
Ugly Sauce said:
I just remembered an old trick with flat springs, which is to, when possible, put some kind of leather or paper washer or shim between the spring and the metal it is screwed down to/on. That is also supposed to prolong the life of the spring and make breaking less likely. I would think a thin piece of brass would work well for that. I can see where the trigger/bolt spring, torqued down really tight against the frame would tend to fatigue the spring.
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That's the first I've heard of this technique! Sounds like it would reduce stress on the spring
 
best thing to do is replace the little flat springs with music wire torsion type springs and do the Ruger type hand plunger and spring. The torsion type springs are not gonna break and make the action so much smoother. Add in polishing the internals and adding a bolt guide these pistols can be made into very reliable machines. I also like to case harden the pivot screws to cut down on the wear they show after a few hundred shots. I am also gonna offer a 20 dollar discount on my full on tune for forum members for this month.
 
Rival said:
Well, I have Pietta 1851 Navy, and same part broke three times on me, hand with spring assembly (the little arm that moves the cylinder and actually makes the clicking sound when you rotate it). That little leaf spring keeps breaking, I assume it is made from really crappy quality material. It is really my bad, instead of ordering factory replacement parts, I should look for higher quality kit elsewhere.
Click to expand...

I would be looking for the reason it keeps breaking. You can make a new one out of a bobby pin that will last a very long time and they're not exactly spring steel.
 
Jackrabbit1957 said:
best thing to do is replace the little flat springs with music wire torsion type springs and do the Ruger type hand plunger and spring. The torsion type springs are not gonna break and make the action so much smoother. Add in polishing the internals and adding a bolt guide these pistols can be made into very reliable machines. I also like to case harden the pivot screws to cut down on the wear they show after a few hundred shots. I am also gonna offer a 20 dollar discount on my full on tune for forum members for this month.
Click to expand...

What does a full on tune cost?
 
It seems to me that most people who buy a percussion revolver are interested primarily in the novelty of it and really don't use it hard or often - and don't expect much when they do. So when the gun isn't especially reliable or accurate, the owner shrugs and says "Well, that's just the way they are", and if you improved the quality and raised the price, he wouldn't have bought it in the first place.

Put another way, Ruger offered a cap gun of about the same quality and price as their centerfire revolvers, and had to discontinue it. Apparently the market just isn't there. Thankfully, the aftermarket is - and it's perfectly possible to spend centerfire money and get centerfire quality delivered directly to your door. https://www.longhunt.com/web/index.php?page=colt-1851-navy-custom-black-powder
 
Guys, I believe you are overthinking this issue a little bit - yes, flat springs are not the best option, but they are not so fragile by design alone. Those springs are stamped from sheet metal - just remove any burrs left from the manufacturing process and radius the edges a little bit, that will do. You will just remove any stress points from them. That goes for the bolt itself, hand spring, trigger/bolt spring and the mainspring - just "deburr" them, it will make them last quite longer. I mean, they cannot compare to the longevity of a wire springs, but they are not THAT crappy, prone to breakage thingies either.
 
Uberti does offer a upgraded SAA , the EL Patron . I like the Taylor’s Smoke Wagon better , because of the billboard on the EL Patron .
 
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Mizar said:
Guys, I believe you are overthinking this issue a little bit - yes, flat springs are not the best option, but they are not so fragile by design alone. Those springs are stamped from sheet metal - just remove any burrs left from the manufacturing process and radius the edges a little bit, that will do. You will just remove any stress points from them. That goes for the bolt itself, hand spring, trigger/bolt spring and the mainspring - just "deburr" them, it will make them last quite longer. I mean, they cannot compare to the longevity of a wire springs, but they are not THAT crappy, prone to breakage thingies either.
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I forgot to mention that important advice. Deburring new parts should be standard since it reduces wear.
 
red rick said:
Uberti does offer a upgraded SAA , the EL Patron . I like the Taylor’s Some Wagon better , because of the billboard on the EL Patron .
Click to expand...

I have a El Patron, and there's nothing on it except the old patent dates on the frame, and then "El Patron" and ".45 Colt" are small and very lightly (laser?) engraved on the barrel, no stamping. ?
 
brewer12345 said:
What does a full on tune cost?
Click to expand...
Full on tune is 220.00, this month giving a 20 dollar discount to forum members. Tune includes correct arbor and timing, bolt guide, action shield, action stop, cap post if desired, Ruger type hand plunger and spring, torsion type springs for the trigger and bolt, polish internals, case harden the pivot screws.
 
Ugly Sauce said:
I have a El Patron, and there's nothing on it except the old patent dates on the frame, and then "El Patron" and ".45 Colt" are small and very lightly (laser?) engraved on the barrel, no stamping. ?
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I thought they had a tuned action and lighter springs .That engraving is what keeps me from buying it .

I just went to their website and it says that they are fitted with US Wolff springs and each revolver has been carefully tested and certified for fit and function, with a reliable light and smooth tuned action .
 
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I can tell you right now, I would pay dearly for a 1851/1861/1860 cartridge conversions that were made like USFA's. An 1860 Richards Type I or II in .44Colt, made like the later domestic USFA SAA's would be The Holy Grail for me. I'd also expect them to be $2000 or more. You can't get perfection for $300.
 
BamRanchCowboy said:
Are they sacrificing reliability in the name of "tradition"?

The flat trigger/bolt springs on factory cap n' ball revolvers are atrocious. By far my biggest gripe. They break so often they may as well be considered consumables for the gun. If Pietta/Uberti simply switched to a more sturdy and reliable wire spring (like Wolff springs) straight from the factory, I'm sure it would make everyone happier.

The nipples? They're okay. But just okay. I still had to switch them out for some slixshot nipples and pretty much never had a misfire since.

And the screws? Oh boy. I'd like to know why on Earth Pietta thought soft screws would be a good idea for thier firearms. I've had to swap these screws out for high quality steel ones and never looked back.

And the sights? Why the heck are they set at 100 yards? I can't imagine many of us shoot cap & ball revolvers from 100 yards away on horseback. That may have been a useful sight configuration during the civil war, but now days that's just plain impractical. Most people I know who are black powder enthusiasts shoot at standard target distances for a handgun, so about 20-50 yards tops. I've had to take my Colt Navy and carefully file down the rear sight notch to make the point of impact not 12-14 inches higher than I'm aiming. I learned how to do this from other black powder enthusiasts, many of which also made modifications to either the rear notch or front post to be accurate at normal handgun ranges.

There's some very simple things Pietta and Uberti can do to make thier guns more reliable straight from the factory; that wouldn't necessarily make thier revolvers any less "traditional".
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I never had reliable problems with them, but for the price they sell these guns for you are going to have to take the time to tune it to what you want it to be. or if your lucky you can find a roa at a decent price, lol or spend the money on a davide pendersoli. I just tune the uberti and pietta and shoot the piss out of them. I have never wore one out or stretched a brass frame.
 
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