Single Action vs. Double Action

Status
Not open for further replies.
And hey, as long as I'm being gratuitous...

full.jpg

My old Bianchi Cup gun, which taught me how to shoot. (This is exactly the way it was in competition, except for the scope. The first generation Aimpoint that was on the gun back then is...somewhere in the garage, I hope.) At any rate, it is another incredibly good DAO trigger, but so hopelessly specialized that you'd never see it outside of a purpose-built race gun. For the seven through twenty-five yard stages, it was about as good as any SA trigger would have been - and much faster, of course. For the longer stages - especially the 50 yard prone, with the gun resting on the nylon grip extension - I am sure I would have gained a few points with a good SA trigger. The very top guys could "clean" that stage DA, but as a second-stringer I almost always dropped a few points myself.
 
I shoot everything D/A - unless of course, it's a S/A.
It took - literally - 15 minutes of training - to learn how to shoot that way.

I just took naturally to it.

I'm far better at it than I am shooting S/A.

Matter of fact, my best shooting is done - weak hand, D/A- using a two-hand hold from a seated position w/my elbows off the table
 
Last edited:
Yes, but are you familiar with those triggers? I had a Jarvis PPC gun on a Model 10, with a roller trigger and a ridiculously light return spring. As long as you didn't try to run it too fast (or ask it to bust anything other than Federal primers) it was almost impossible to pull the sights off target with the trigger - but what a narrowly focused gun that was!


My revolver was a Davis built one. I replaced the springs so it would pop any primer but still had an incredibly smooth pull. I have no use for a revolver that won’t work with any ammunition I may have.

81293A4E-0067-42F5-9704-64F355016C44.jpeg

8C3ED716-E8E7-43EB-AD59-6D0F454AB574.jpeg

Kevin
 
Shoot my J-frame revolvers DA. Enjoy the challenge and this practice serves me well since I carry a DAO revolver. Single-action shooting is reserved for my single action revolvers.
 
For Bullseye Shooting, ever one of the experts in the Bullseye Forum and the Bullseye Encyclopedia, and "The Pistol Shooter's Treasury" says to NOT do this. Don't hesitate, make one smooth press of the trigger, and if things aren't right, lower the gun, and start all over again. I'm not suggesting what anyone else should or should not do, but I've been taught not to do that. The best advice I have been given is "watch the dot, wait for the bang", and be surprised when the gun actually fires.

That's the way I was taught to shoot revolver and I shoot better this way in Double Action. I don't hesitate and I don't slow down or stop my trigger pull.
One steady, smooth motion.
I have found that double action for me is easier and more natural for me to shoot. But my best groups or let's say "six shot holes" were done with single action at 7-10yds. Once I get past 15yds I don't see my target so well any more and my groups open up. But 15-25 stay about the same as spread so I think it is my eyes, about 4-6" groups these days. At 63 I don't shoot as good as I used to but I keep trying.
 
Depends on the trigger.
I have several Taurus revolvers with not very good triggers. I am less accurate firing those in DA than SA.
I have several S&W revolvers with excellent triggers. I am acceptably accurate with those when firing double action.
 
Mikemyers,

Have you considered the thought that an
N-frame 6-inch Model 28 is too big and
heavy for you to capably handle?

The dimensions may be defeating you,
especially with a few added years.

The weight may play a part in getting fatigued quicker also.

In my case I went from a model 28 to an L frame size and it made a biggest difference for me. My Model 28 was very accurate, and I've shot some good groups with my GP100 but the best ones came from my 686-4, it's just superior to my GP in just about every aspect.
And dimensionally 686 fits me better than my Model 28 does and that make me a better shooter. When I first started shooting the 686 with it's full lug barrel I thought this thing is end heavy compared to my 28, but it didn't take but about 1 range trip to get use to it.
 
Problem is I got my corrective lenses with the distance eye my right eye, so the sights on the gun are blurry unless I use my left eye to sight, but that is not a natural action. I got used to using the right eye with blurry sights though.
One option is to buy a set of glasses specifically for shooting, using polycarbonate lens material for safety, and with a prescription for the distance from your eyeball to the front sight. You'll be safer, and have a perfect view of that front sight. Glasses are so inexpensive nowadays that it won't cost you much.

After both eyes were repaired, I could see distance with no problem but I need readers for short distance.
The human eye has a lens that can focus at many different distances. The IOL that is used to replace the cataract does not focus at all (although there are "premium lenses that simultaneously focus at two or three distances). I specifically did not want those "premium" lenses, and my own solution is to wear "progressive" glasses that focus between close-up and infinity. Problem solved. As to the cataracts, first things get blurry, then things get dark, and finally when the cataract gets completely opaque, vision in that eye is blocked. Replace the cataract with a clear IOL, and vision returns. But most people then wear glasses from then on.

Have you considered the thought that an
N-frame 6-inch Model 28 is too big and
heavy for you to capably handle?

The dimensions may be defeating you,
especially with a few added years.

Instead think slicked up K-frame like a
Model 14 or Model 15 or Model 19.
They lend themselves easily to DA and SA.

The Model 19-5 with its smooth, wide trigger
and a set of new springs from Wilson Combat
or Wolff might just be the bestest of the best.
(You can, of course, grind down and smooth
out any of the ridged/serrated triggers as well.)
No, my first gun was a new S&W Model 29 with 6" barrel, followed shortly later by another Model 29 Silhouette gun with 10 5/8" barrel, along with a Model 41. Shooting two handed none of my guns is too big and heavy - but I only shoot 44 Special and 38 Special, no Magnum loads.

As for revolvers, I shoot my Model 14 S&W better than my Model 28, but I'm convinced that most of the difference is me, not the gun. The 14 has an 8" barrel, which helps because of the longer sight radius. That big, heavy Highway Patrolman in my hands feels "rock steady" unless/until I try to use one hand (ouch!!), or shoot DA - in which case the sights wobble around as the hammer moves toward the rear. .......It feels nothing like a Python, which feels as smooth as butter....

My solution to all this - dry fire for an hour or two every day. I also bought some reduced load 38 Special ammo from "Georgia Arms", which is almost (but not quite) as enjoyable to shoot as m 38 Special Wadcutter reloads, which were intended for my Model 52......

I've never shot formal bullseye with a revolver, but in Bianchi Cup competition, "staging" the DA trigger was pretty common during the 50 yard prone stage.
I'm not experienced enough to say much, although I do know what the "Bullseye Experts" have said. After reading what you wrote, I did a search, and found this:
https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/254635-staging-the-da-trigger-vs-pull-through-method/
I don't want to get into what I consider a bad habit, but I do want to learn how to shoot DA better, in addition to shooting SA.
 
With enough practice, anything is possible

Add 7 more years to your age and you will most likely rethink that statement. You abilities as you age are like a bullet's trajectory, the farther they go the quicker the drop.

I had cataract surgery in late 2019. They told me I could get rid of glasses except for a cheap pair of readers and that is what I have done. Foster Grant makes some small rimless ones that are very comfortable. What they didn't tell me was how bright the sunlight was going to be after lens replacement. I needed shades before and really can't function outdoors now without them. I can read the 20/15 eyechart easily now and with a little squinting can usually manage the 20/10.
 
Thing is, if you read the responses, two things are pretty clear: trigger time matters and application is the key. I get most of my trigger time shooting double-action revolvers "on point" while hunting or recreational shooting. I don't use the sights at close range, I follow the target. Leading a double-action isn't much of a challenge but it takes practice. Neither is leading a single-action but it also takes practice. They both have advantages and I train for both just like I train for shooting with either hand. Leading with a handgun is a skill most people don't bother to acquire but it's invaluable if you ever plan to shoot anything besides a piece of paper. Mistake I see most people make is they lead too far in front then stop leading to pull the trigger. That's a good way to miss a critter on the hoof.

If you really want to know how good you are with a double-action, try a swinging pendulum steel target. Or setup a "running pig" rail - one of the clubs I was a member of down in Brevard county had one and they're a great training tool - but that's easier than swinging plates or a pendulum, IMO.
 
......Once I get past 15yds I don't see my target so well any more and my groups open up. But 15-25 stay about the same as spread so I think it is my eyes, about 4-6" groups these days. At 63 I don't shoot as good as I used to but I keep trying.
I'm confused - if you're using open sights, and focus on the front sight, the target is expected to be a blur, the more blur, the better. We are not supposed to focus on the target, or anywhere in-between, only the front sight.

What they didn't tell me was how bright the sunlight was going to be after lens replacement.
Since we have to wear shooting glasses anyway, why not get a pair that is tinted, or better yet, transitions as needed when you're in sunlight?

I have a question, after reading all these responses. If any of you were to pick up your revolver with your "off-hand", with an empty gun of course, and pull the trigger back, does it just move back perfectly smoothly, or does it feel "rough" with the gun moving with each "bump" that you feel? Maybe my gun just needs work.
 
Ol' Hickock is a man of years, like me, and a natural shooter. I doubt he missed the first shot when he picked up a gun as a kid. Talking about single action shooting with double action guns. To me, since I first picked up a gun, was the single action sound that a large frame Smith with the firing pin on the hammer makes.
That sound is something I like to hear.
 
I'm confused - if you're using open sights, and focus on the front sight, the target is expected to be a blur, the more blur, the better. We are not supposed to focus on the target, or anywhere in-between, only the front sight.


Since we have to wear shooting glasses anyway, why not get a pair that is tinted, or better yet, transitions as needed when you're in sunlight?

I have a question, after reading all these responses. If any of you were to pick up your revolver with your "off-hand", with an empty gun of course, and pull the trigger back, does it just move back perfectly smoothly, or does it feel "rough" with the gun moving with each "bump" that you feel? Maybe my gun just needs work.
I switch hands every shooting session. I was taught that way from childhood. When I first learned to use a rifle I picked it up left handed and sighted with my right eye. My uncle decided I was either ambidextrous or cross-eye dominant. Either way, he taught me and all his boys to shoot a pistol with either hand. Way he put it, "What if you're out hunting and break your right arm or your right hand? How are you going to shoot a dangerous animal to protect your life if you can't shoot just as well, without thinking about it, with your left hand?"

No, none of my guns feel different cocking the hammer or operating the trigger with either hand.
 
Since we have to wear shooting glasses anyway, why not get a pair that is tinted, or better yet, transitions as needed when you're in sunlight?k.

I have transitions and they are pretty much worthless for driving as there isn't enough UV light in the vehicle to make them dark enough to be comfortable. They just take up space on my dresser. It's Ray-Bans for everything except shooting. Then I wear tinted wrap around safety glasses which also help a lot with protecting my eyes from wind. It's difficult to do anything when your eyes are watering. After a little tweaking the Ray-Bans are very good in the wind but since they are not safety glasses they get put aside when shooting.
 
I'm confused - if you're using open sights, and focus on the front sight, the target is expected to be a blur, the more blur, the better. We are not supposed to focus on the target, or anywhere in-between, only the front sight.

I used to be able to see front and back sights well and see target reasonably well. Can't do it anymore. Now I have to look through the very beginning of my progressive bifocals to do it and now my head is tipped up where it doesn't belong.


I have a question, after reading all these responses. If any of you were to pick up your revolver with your "off-hand", with an empty gun of course, and pull the trigger back, does it just move back perfectly smoothly, or does it feel "rough" with the gun moving with each "bump" that you feel? Maybe my gun just needs work.

My DA triggers are smooth with either hand on my 686-4 and my Model 57.
I never considered the DA triggers on either of my Model 28s to be any thing special. Single action trigger is good on them.
My 686-4 is superb and my 57 is just about as good.
 
Shooting double-action well with a revolver takes a lot of practice. Why spend all the time mastering what is basically an obsolete weapon?
 
Shooting double-action well with a revolver takes a lot of practice. Why spend all the time mastering what is basically an obsolete weapon?
Posting that comment in a forum dedicated to revolvers could easily be interpreted as trolling. But, I guess it could just as easily be ignorance. :)

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
Hanlon's Razor
 
Shooting double-action well with a revolver takes a lot of practice. Why spend all the time mastering what is basically an obsolete weapon?
Shooting well with anything takes a bit of practice. Learning to shoot DA well doesn't really take all that much time and effort, if you're of a mind to, and translates well to everything else, SA, not so much.

DA revolvers may not be the best choice today for some things, but they are far from an obsolete weapon, and being able to shoot one well, is just another good skill to have in your pocket.
 
DA revolvers may not be the best choice today for some things, but they are far from an obsolete weapon, and being able to shoot one well, is just another good skill to have in your pocket.
I feel stronger about this than you do. You wrote "may not be the best choice for some things". Agreed completely, but that applies to any and all guns. There is no 'perfect choice' unless you define what kind of shooting we're talking about.

Me? I don't buy guns for protection, I buy them for shooting at the range, and I could add "bullseye shooting" but I don't compete all that often.

I've got zero desire to buy a plastic gun. None. The few that I shot, I didn't like. The "right gun" for me is made from steel. The type of shooting I do could simply be defined as "target shooting", usually paper targets, but also steel plates. I'm not that concerned with "accuracy", assuming the gun has adjustable sights so I can set it as needed. I'm very concerned with precision - would love all ten rounds to go into one hole.

I started with revolvers, and will enjoy them as long as I can shoot. I also enjoy pistols, especially those that are considered accurate and precise. My Baer 1911 Premiere II is up near the top of my list, although it took me two years to get used to it, or vice versa.

I also love black powder shooting, with my Old Army.

I wouldn't discuss most of this too much, as I'm pretty sure many of you have very different interests in shooting, and many different types of guns that you prefer. I'm spoiled - if I'm buying a revolver, 22, 38, 357, 44 - whatever, I am much more likely to buy a gun that's from the 1980's if possible. If it's going to be a new gun, maybe I would prefer to buy from Baer, or one of the companies that still hand-builds guns.

I very, very, very much respect what I'm told by Hickok45 when it comes to revolvers and hand guns. I watched his comparison of the old S&W Model 19 compared to the brand new "Classic" Model 19. It's obvious he prefers the old one. Then he compared the old and new Python - again, old came out on top.

I used to think the weight of the gun was important, and the lighter the better. But I've changed my mind - my huge and heavy S&W Model 28 is so big and heavy, it's easier to hold it still, and it soaks up recoil. Since my top requirement is precision, sight radius becomes very important, and the longer the sight radius, the easier it is to aim a gun precisely.

Back to this topic:
The revolvers that I have are shot double action.
I've been dry-firing my Model 28 today, and much as I'd like to shoot it double action, the sights "wobble" because of the trigger pull. From what I've read here, maybe I need to get a gunsmith work on the gun:
I never considered the DA triggers on either of my Model 28s to be any thing special.
Maybe my 28 just needs some TLC, cleaning, polishing, lubricating....
Or, I can leave it in my safe, and shoot my Model 14 which is smooth as butter and shoots great.
I'm just too stubborn I guess..... I don't know of any reason why the Model 28 couldn't be made just as good as the 14.
If I'm missing something, please let me know.
 
Posting that comment in a forum dedicated to revolvers could easily be interpreted as trolling. But, I guess it could just as easily be ignorance.
I like single action revolvers, and double action revolvers fired single action. I've never been able to get the hang of double action shooting. (The configuration of my hands may have something to do with it.) But, let's face it, this is all nostalgia. All revolvers are obsolete for practical use. Do you see any militaries or police departments still using them?
 
I feel stronger about this than you do. You wrote "may not be the best choice for some things". Agreed completely, but that applies to any and all guns. There is no 'perfect choice' unless you define what kind of shooting we're talking about.

Me? I don't buy guns for protection, I buy them for shooting at the range, and I could add "bullseye shooting" but I don't compete all that often.

Ive had a number of 28's over the years (still have a 4"), and always found their DA triggers to be fine. I have a bunch of different S&W revolvers, from different eras, and in a number of calibers, and they all are for the most part, very similar.

Unless you really think something is wrong with your gun, Id just spend a little time each day dry firing it DAO, and I think youll find that it will appear to get better the more you do. And its more you than the gun thats getting better. ;)


I buy guns to shoot as well, and especially the odd balls anymore, but more with the intention of learning them primarily to be used as a weapon, not a toy. Although there's no doubt, toys are fun too. :)

Ive always been of the mind that you should be able to pick up anything you come across and be able to work it and shoot it reasonably and realistically well. The advantage of being comfortable shooting box stock guns with what most would probably consider mediocre to poor triggers is, once youre comfortable with that, everything else becomes easy, and you dont worry so much about it.

The key here with shooting DAO is, to focus on the front sight and focus on holding the alignment as you stroke the trigger. That is your total focus. Lack of muscle tone is probably most of the problem for most people, and once your tone catches up, those sights will be rock steady as you stroke the trigger and youll get a clean supprised break of sorts every time. SA is too light and you know its going to go off as soon as you touch it, and you tend to focus more on whats going on with the trigger and not the sights and you lose that focus.

Ill guarantee you, if your focus is on those sights and you hold that alignment all the way through to the break, the rounds will go where you were holding. If you start to think about what the trigger is doing, and lose that focus, not so much. You basically ignore the trigger and put all your focus on the sight alignment.

Heres a few that were shot DAO at varying distances and speeds from 7 to 15 yards or so for the most part. The Beretta was single shots fired in presentation from a low ready, fired in DA for all the shots. The revolvers were shot a little quicker and more in doubles and triples, and depending on the range, not everything was "sighted" or static.

8WJYzQR_q_dc-F5BNyntOLdWDP5ZdA7LI-ODz8ZBfim7_-S7bupXNkI8sQR?cn=THISLIFE&res=medium&ts=1552081576.jpg
8WJYzQR_q_dc-F5BNyntOLdWDP5ZdA7LI-ODz8rzbHybR3CZx5eHcCI4YJ_?cn=THISLIFE&res=medium&ts=1515696079.jpg
8WJYzQR_q_dc-F5BNyntOLdWDP5ZdA7LI-ODz_P-Sp7HfD6elSJUROglFY4?cn=THISLIFE&res=medium&ts=1516216510.jpg
8WJYzQR_q_dc-F5BNyntOLdWDP5ZdA7LI-ODz895XXedrIox8txCZ7zBL2v?cn=THISLIFE&res=medium&ts=1562884068.jpg


All revolvers are obsolete for practical use. Do you see any militaries or police departments still using them?
They are only obsolete if you are. ;)

Are there better choices, of course, but if youre up to it, and can quickly and accurately place your rounds, you'll likely do OK, as long as you dont run out too quick.

Police and militaries are not a good barometer as to what good shooting is, at least not the general population of them anyway. The hard corps guys are a different story, just like anywhere else, including civilians. ;)

If all I had was a revolver and a couple of speed loaders, Id be happy I had them and wouldnt feel too undergunned. You bet, Id be a lot happier if it were my 17, but I can still shoot a revolver pretty well and in a more realistic way than bullseye or pop can shooting.

Its all about knowing as much as you can, about as much as you can, and being confident in your skills with all you do know.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top