Improving Accuracy, 45ACP, SIG P220, Zero 185gr, JHP

tomrkba said:

You could have gotten 0.46", so there's definitely room for improvement.

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Thanks for the comments.

It takes a lot to get it below .50". The gun and the load can probably accomplish it a bit easier than I can. I can definitely see when I have a good grouping going. This obviously increases the pressure on me to perform.

N555 said:

Try 230s. My 1911 never liked any 185gr ammo, factory or reload.

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I have been trying with 230gr fmj bullets also. My best grouping so far is a .54", but I have not validated the load yet by retesting it.

Walkalong said:

I used to shoot a lot of lead in .45 ACP with W-231 and 225 7 230 Gr bullets. 5.0 Grs for plinking, 5.5 Grs for "full power". Some people like 5.2/5.3 Grs. Hodgdon online data stops at 5.3 for a 230 Gr lead round nose as well as the Hornady 230 Gr FMJFP these days, but folks over the last few decades have shot a lot of W-231 at 5.5 Grs with 225 Gr TrFP & 230 Gr RN lead bullets.

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Thanks for the information. W-231 always comes up when accuracy is mentioned. I am definitely going to try it also, but lead bullets will have to wait a bit before I try it. Finding the time to test all these load combinations is not easy.

Walkalong said:

These days I shoot coated vs plain lead, but I suspect W-231 would still work well. Yes, load testing is time intensive and it needs to be when you are not distracted and in the right frame of mind. I imagine most folks could throw a 200 Gr coated SWC in a case with 5.0 Grs W-231 and be happy knowing it will out shoot them on all but their best days, but finding an accurate load in .45 ACP is child's play. Of course it takes work to fine tune it, just saying the .45 ACP is easy compared to say 9MM, or at least was for me.

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Thanks again for the comments. I have tried coated bullets a few times, but they were also getting more expensive, and not that much cheaper than jacketed bullets. One of these days I'll prioabbly try coated bullets again, and then everything has to be tested again. I wouldn't say finding an accurate load in 45acp is child's play, but probably depends on the definition of an accurate load. Loading 45acp has not been that easy for me, and maybe it is the Lee dies I am using. It just seems the mechanics are not smooth like my 40s&w and 357sig loading. I know this is not what you meant when you said child's play, but I think smooth mechanics makes it easier to be consistent in the loading process also.

N555 said:

Yes my 230gr silencer load with near max charge of HP38 shoots very well.
It does a bit over 800fps and opens up hollow points on the milk jug test.

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The classic Bullseye load is close to your 800fps, and is also very accurate:
45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Geco
COL: 1.255"
RMR, 230gr, FMJRN, Bullseye, 5.1gr, CCI300
Average: 792
ES: 33
SD: 13.5
Force: 320
PF: 182
Velocities: 814, 797, 790, 781, 782
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.65"
Test Date: 09/27/2018

For me HP38/W231 seems to group better at lower velocities. At higher velocities the groupings start to open up a bit:
45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: KFA
COL: 1.255"
RMR, 230gr, FMJRN, HP38, 5gr, CCI300
Average: 663
ES: 68
SD: 25.8
Force: 224
PF: 152
Velocities: 631, 699, 667, 648, 673
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.72"
Test Date: 12/24/2018

tomrkba said:

0.54" is already awesome! I think you're probably good to go.

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Thanks for the nice words. It is a very good group, but for me it is only good to go once I have duplicated the grouping with the same load, or get very close to it on a consistent basis. I am not there yet.

I am planning my next loads for this bullet. It will be on load that already grouped very good, and I want to to try and verify, and another 6 loads/ladder with a different powder.

The load I will try and verify will be:
Case: Federal, COL: 1.200", Zero, 185gr, JHP, TiteGroup, 4.6gr, FED155 (large pistol magnum primer)

The next powder I will test will be one of these powders:
700X, HP38/W231, Bullseye and WST. (I don't have Clays or N310 in my inventory)

Any recommendation regarding which powder will provide the best accuracy will be appreciated.

ArchAngelCD said:

Yeah, the reason the Hodgdon data stops at 5.3gr W231 is the OAL of only 1.200" they list. My OAL is between 1.255" to 1.270" depending on which cast bullet I'm loading. I use the same charge with 230gr FMJ bullets with an OAL of 1.255" most times.

Now.with coated bullets I don't feel the need for jacketed bullets unless they are for SD ammo. I never did care for plated bullets in the 45 ACP.

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With all these different bullets, it would be nice if load data could have included at least the length of the bullets.

I like plated bullets in 45acp since the velocities are low enough and you don't have to worry about the thickness of the plating. I used to shoot Berry's 200gr RS plated bullets, but they are not cheap anymore.

lordpaxman said:

I’m following and waiting with bated breath…
The only other powder I didn’t see mentioned is discontinued, IMR Target. It did well for 200gr coated SWCs, but I’ve not loaded 185’s. If burn rate is one of the factors, it’s right up there with TG.

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There are a few other powders in that burn range also like, Ramshot Competition and Zip, AA#2, Red Dot and Sports Pistol. I have never used them, but some of those like AA#2 and Sports Pistol are more marketed towards IDPA and USPSA type competition.

Blue68f100 said:

I would not use Mag primers in a 45acp. The case is so small the primer can dislodge the bullet not giving you a consistent burn.

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Thanks for the comments.

This was the first time I have used magnum primers for loads not listing magnum powders. No issues so far. It seems the velocity difference between CCI300 and CCI350 are bigger than between FED150 and FED155. The FED155 accuracy was very good. I think I will keep on experimenting with magnum primers and will report any issues I find.

fxvr5 said:

The 'consistency' thing reminded me of something else. I dug around and found this:

Consistent velocity (sd and es) is not correlated to group size. And the best part is, it was written by that same author.

https://americanhandgunner.com/handguns/exclusive-consistent-velocity-accuracy/

It has been discussed on this forum many times, that the best measure of accuracy is the size of the groups on the target, not the chronograph.

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Thanks for sharing the article. I was always looking for that perfect ES/SD numbers, but it does not translate into good groupings at 15 yards as far as I my numbers. It obviously does not hurt, but accuracy is more important.