Single Action vs. Double Action

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Do you have, and shoot, an old SA revolver from Colt? Any good?

In the 1980s and 1990s I had a small collection (6) of 1st Gen Colt SAAs, one in 44 WCF and the rest chambered for the 45 Colt. All but one were black powder frame models and so I only shot black powder cartridges in them. Life came along and I had to sell them to start my own business. Now some 20 years later I find I'm back to my first love but can't afford shootable 1st Gen Colts anymore. I now have a collection of late production USFA single actions, again mostly chambered for the 45 Colt. And I still shoot black powder cartridges regularly. In these style guns smokeless powder is boring. (smile)

Davbe
 
Oops, I need to keep all this in perspective. My interest in revolvers is mostly in "shooting", not "collecting". If a first generation Colt is now going for $6,000, the bottom line is I then have little interest in buying one. One key point is how precise the guns are, and I accept that the limit to that question is my ability.

Lots of revolvers around, for lots of different purposes. My usual purpose is simple - "Accuracy", although I now know the proper word is "Precision".

I also can't really say I prefer revolvers to pistols, as I like both.

I also realize I'm full of "prejudices", as in I have no interest in plastic guns. I watched Hickock45 go back and forth between a 1911 and a Glock, and for his type of shooting, both were "adequate". If he were trying to put ten rounds in the bullseye of a B-6 or B-8 target, things would be different.

Of course, the guns I am interested would fail miserably in something like this:
 
For the same reason I still drive a car with a manual transmission even though they are harder to find these days than an honest politician in Washington DC.
We call a manual transmission the, “Millennial Anti-Theft Device.” ;)

I love the S&W Model 14-3 for target shooting. I have three, a 6”, 8 3/8” and an 8 3/8” that had an unobserved bulge at the end of the barrel that is destined to be cut to 5” for something different.

The Model 14 has, to me, the perfect combo of size, weight and trigger potential to help anyone become a better revolver shooter with dedicated practice. :)

Stay safe.
 
"Millennial anti-theft device"!!! I guess that's true, and getting more so year by year. The no-gooders won't know what to do with that third pedal. Until I started developing occasional gout years ago, all my cars were manual.

I've been thinking over what you wrote - I thought the longer barrel with a longer sight radius would be beneficial, but I suspect you shoot the 6" more.

Yet another compromise - go longer for precision, and shorter for ease of carry.

My 14 is now one of my favorite guns. It's a compromise, but in a way that works best for me. .....back to what you wrote, where are you going to find people to do the barrel shortening? How will they replace the front sight?
 
Meanwhile, back to revolvers, and single vs double action, on a whim I got out my S&W Model 17-5 last night. Huge difference from my Model 28 - the trigger moves back smooth as molasses. The gun doesn't wobble from the trigger movement. I tested it in dry-fire, and I suspect I could shoot it either way, and get similar results.

Maybe I'll get to try it for a short time at the range tomorrow morning.

Something else I noticed - after all this shooting with the Model 28, two handed, I found I could easily shoot the Model 17 with one hand. The last time I tried that, I wasn't strong enough.

I've got a lot more 22 ammo than 38; that also makes a difference.

One of the problems with the 28 trigger is it was not built as a target gun, it was purpose built for a LEO gun and has heavier springs in the trigger than we would want for a target gun. Single action in my two Model 28s are really good, especially in my 1957 model because I have shot it the most.
Double action will require a trigger and spring job. I hear people say that the 28 is the same as the 27 except for the finish. It isn't the same inside, not polished, not sprung for optimal target shooting and so on.
As far as Hitchcock45 abilities with a model 28, unless your 6'9' and have huge hands like he does, you will never equal him with any N-frame.
I'm normal sized and a Model 28 is just to big of a frame for me to shoot double action well, for the size of my hands. I do it but I will never be a good shot with it in double action. I just doesn't feel natural for me, like a smaller frame does.
A trigger and spring job will go a long ways towards where you want to be though, I found that out when I bought my 57 and it was at least twice as easy to shoot double action because it was optimized as a hunting/target gun. Had the right springs to start with.
But when I bought my 6" 686-4, that when the rest of it came together for me as the smaller frame fit my hands better and was just more natural to shoot so my groups really improved the most with it.
Your 14 is the same way, that's why you shoot it the best. K and L frames are the best size frames for most people.
Get a spring kit and a polish job on your Model 28 and you will notice a big difference but unless you have big enough hands that the 28 fits you naturally, don't expect it shoot it as good in double action as you do your 14.
 
One of the problems with the 28 trigger is it was not built as a target gun, it was purpose built for a LEO gun and has heavier springs in the trigger than we would want for a target gun. Single action in my two Model 28s are really good, especially in my 1957 model because I have shot it the most.............I hear people say that the 28 is the same as the 27 except for the finish. It isn't the same inside, not polished, not sprung for optimal target shooting and so on.........A trigger and spring job will go a long ways towards where you want to be though, .......Get a spring kit and a polish job on your Model 28 and you will notice a big difference.........

I was not aware of any of that. Thank you for the update. I don't really need to shoot double-action for targets, so I can ignore that part of what you wrote, and you're right - I thought the difference between the 27 and 28 was just the "finish".

So, with a spring kit, and a trigger job, my Model 28 will be closer to what I want - but still not as good as the Model 14. The more I think about this, the more I think I should leave the 28 alone, in my gun safe, and concentrate on the Model 14.

Any recommendations on what to buy for the 28, if I go ahead with your suggestions anyway? Where would I look for "a spring kit"? You're probably right that it's too big for me to shoot double-action, but my problem when I try this isn't the size, it's that the gun wobbles back and forth because of the lack of a trigger job, with the included polishing. I do enjoy shooting it; would be nice if could be improved, even if I don't need to do so.
 
I would take it to a gun smith and describe to them what you want. My smith told me to try his spring selection first and if I didn't like it, he would change springs again on the same dime. The kits he bought were sets that had more than one set of springs. The kit was $12.00.
I'm getting ahead of myself. You can get spring kits from Wolff springs, they concentrate on spring kits for about any gun on the market.
https://www.gunsprings.com/
I believe my smith put 5lb single action and 8-9 lb double action springs I think. I let my gun smith pick them, and put them in and test fire it for function. I don't want to find out I'm getting light strikes the first time I take it to the range. He charged me $60.00 out the door for the spring kit, installation, and polishing, for several of my revolvers. Money well spent.
That was before the pandemic and all the inflation, so I don't know what he charges now. It's been about 4 years since I've been there.
My last two revolvers I bought were a 686-4 that was worked on before I bought it, and a new Model 57 that was really good right out of the box.
That's why I haven't been there for a while.
 
it's that the gun wobbles back and forth because of the lack of a trigger job, with the included polishing.
You could at least call a smith and get a quote for a spring kit and polishing the internals that need it.
Then you will know what it will cost you and you can make a better decision as to leaving it stock or having it worked on.
I won't try to talk you in or out of getting it done, that's your decision to make and it won't make you a class A shooting champion, but it make the gun live up the best it can be, and you have to do the rest.
After shooting them for a while I forgot pretty quick about the money part of it.
 
I've already called my gunsmith, and he will do what's needed. I never asked about the cost - he has always been very reasonable. Until I read the above responses, I hadn't made any plans, but yeah, for a "Highway Patrolman" the priorities are different than for a precision shooter.

Just for the heck of it, I also checked out my Model 29 - trigger was beautifully smooth. Way back then, I loaded and shot around 50 rounds a week. I haven't loaded 44 light loads in a very long time, but I've got everything I need to do that again.

Regarding this specific thread, after all the above discussion, I plan to mostly shoot single-action, but when possible, I want to also shoot double-action.
 
Unfortunately, there is not much chance of practicing with different field of views for differed focal lengths of lenses. My surgery had one eye done at a time. During the interim, the repaired eye had distance focal length viewing distance while the un-repaired eye still had the old, near sighted vision. It drove me nuts. I popped the lens out of my glasses for the repaired eye so that I could see to drive.

After both eyes were repaired, I could see distance with no problem but I need readers for short distance. It works for me. I have reading glasses everywhere around the house.

They do offer multi-distance implants which have their advantages and disadvantages. Find some folks that have had them installed and learn their experience.

I had a multi focal lens put in my right eye after Cataract surgery and was the worse thing I did.
 
Mike, I'd say America only made two serious .38 special target revolvers. The S&W model 14 and the Colt officers model match. You should have one of each and decide for yourself. I'm running the Colt. If I couldn't have a 14 I'd consider a model 10 before moving up in frame size. I have a 686, and it is a pretty gun, but I can't shoot it worth a darn (as in I'm not going to clean a target at 25 yards with one hand).

NRA Bullseye is different and I wouldn't waste my time looking at videos for other shooting disciplines. I respect them, but they don't cross over for me. YMMV.

There is a lot to be said for having the same platform in different calibers, like a Marvel .22 LR conversion for your 1911 .45 acp. You learn one grip, and one trigger. Plus the bigger bullet gives you a scoring advantage for the .38 portion:) So given that I "have" to shoot the .45 ACP, and I see no compelling reason to use a revolver,......well I don't know if I want to bother with a .38 at all for score.......leave alone a revolver. That smith 52 is a fantastic gun, but can also be maddening (for me) to shoot.

Among affordable American guns I'll take a high standard for 22 and a 1911 for the rest. If it sounds like I am contraindicating myself, well I am because I don't own a marvel conversion nor have an extra 1911 to dedicate to it.

My eyes are poor so I went to red dots and didn't look back.

For defensive guns it is still iron sights.

You just have to decide if the model 28 is worth putting money into to turn it into something it isn't. Load up some 180 hard cast wad cutters with 2400, and use it for your backup gun when you go hunting:)
 
Mike, I'd say America only made two serious .38 special target revolvers. The S&W model 14 and the Colt officers model match. You should have one of each and decide for yourself........

There is a lot to be said for having the same platform in different calibers, like a Marvel .22 LR conversion for your 1911 .45 acp. You learn one grip, and one trigger......

You just have to decide if the model 28 is worth putting money into to turn it into something it isn't. Load up some 180 hard cast wad cutters with 2400, and use it for your backup gun when you go hunting:)

Three things you've got me thinking about.
1 - I never knew about the Colt Officers Model Match. Is it "equal" to the S&W Model 14?
2 - Yes, similar platform - after a lot of reading, I bought a Nelson Conversion kit. Excellent, zero problems, accurate. Perfect.
3 - I grudgingly agree about the 28. Not sure what I'll do with it.

About the 22 conversions, there is another option to make the 22 more like a 45, the CMM Machine Conversion Kit, mounted on a S&W Model 41. It takes 1911 grips.
 
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The Colts were 100% hand fitted guns. Over time that made them too expensive to make. Parts availability is a problem. They have the same action and lock work as a Python. The frame is just a tad larger than the 14. They have a different twist rate than the 14; it is optimized for 158 grain bullets (the smith does better with 148 grain). Some would call the action delicate and/or finicky. You own a Python. Do you consider it too fragile to be a daily shooter (factor in light target loads)? Or do you consider it one of the best/most accurate guns ever made? It sure wins the beauty contest hands down IMHO!

On the Colts all the parts are interrelated in a non-intuitive way. As a result there are very few gunsmiths left that know how to work on them. It is a design originating from the early 1900's that Colt stuck with. So be very careful about who you let work on your Python (unless it is the new issue one). Most of the parts in the original Python and OMM are the same.

As far as which one is better......is any S&W better than the Python? Colt holds a lot of records. For many years using an OMM in 2700 matches was considered "cheating" because of their famous "bank vault" lock up.

There are certain guns that I would love to own the complete series....like K38, K32, K22. So I'm not knocking the 14. It is a fantastic gun. It is that just reading this one thread of yours I'm thinking you should try a colt omm. If you ever venture down to Hollywood, FL. I would be honored to have you be my guest at our range. It was established in 1935.

I should buy a 1911 conversion. The smith 41 just doesn't work for me, impossible to get a TOZ anymore, ditto on Benelli, and High Standards are ....err....problematic with mags and frame cracks. It pains me to have to settle for a Ruger.
 
......If you ever venture down to Hollywood, FL. I would be honored to have you be my guest at our range. It was established in 1935.........

A lot to think about, then respond - right now I only have a few minutes. But, amazingly, if you are referring to Hollywood Rifle and Pistol Club, that is my range too... I'm usually there three or four times a week! We probably already know each other!
 
Yup Mike, we are members of the same club!

When I get a chance go, it is usually M-F after 5 PM. If you want to meet there some weekday afternoon and shoot the Colt OMM I'm fine with that.
 
Aha! That's why I probably never met you yet - I try to get there early in the morning, between 9:30 and 10:30, and leave before southbound traffic really builds up in the late afternoon - not to mention the temperature building up!

I'm very busy for the next two months, and will resume shooting several times a week in mid-September.

I'd love to take you up on the opportunity to try the Colt OMM - which will likely end up with my trying to find a good one to buy. If you have several, and want to sell one, that would be even better! :)

I'll leave a response to your other messages up above later today, hopefully by six hours or so. If this system has a messaging system built-in, I'll try to send you my email addy.
 
I got passed last week on my way to work by a beautiful '56 mustang running a Holly carburetor and that does not change the fact that the carburetors on highway passenger vehicles are obsolete and have been since the early 1990's.

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As for staging a double action trigger I have always heard that is a bad plan. I am not sure I actually stage a trigger but the rate at which I sweep the trigger changes dramatically between big close targets and distant small targets. You can practically slap that trigger on USPSA metric target at <7 yards and not even use the rear sight and still get alphas, a 6-inch plate at 30 yards you're pulling that trigger slow and smooth and focusing on good sight picture especially for the last bit of the trigger pull.
56' predates the Mustang by about 8 years! :)

I'm not sure I stage the trigger as much as I steer the front sight and control the break! I know exactly when my shot is about to "break"! I also know exactly where the shot will hit the target. Well, most of the time anyway! Therefore, the shooter can "call" the shot. Especially in precision handgun and rifle shooting! :)
 
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I had a multi focal lens put in my right eye after Cataract surgery and was the worse thing I did.
I did not go that route as I wanted to keep it simple and was already used to mono-vision (blended vision) from having my glasses that way for a number of years. Only complaint is I still need glasses for driving.
 
I did not go that route as I wanted to keep it simple and was already used to mono-vision (blended vision) from having my glasses that way for a number of years. Only complaint is I still need glasses for driving.

The choice is "convenience" vs. "precision". While multi-focal lenses allow you to see things reasonably well at more than one difference, as a photographer, or shooter, I want the very best vision at one distance. This means wearing glasses, and multiple sets of glasses.

Shooters need safety glasses anyway, so get your safety glasses with the appropriate prescription for the targets, and another set for the front sight. 25 and 50 yards seem to work find with "distance" glasses. Front sight requires you to get an eye exam, with something held in front of you at the distance to the front sight.

(I made a fake gun, with a business card attached at the preferred distance, which made the whole process of getting the right prescription effortless. I'll post a photo if anyone wants to see it.)

Be sure you ask for "safety glass", which is one of several materials that won't shatter. Used to be "polycarbonate", but they have better materials nowadays.
 
I will try. It's made from an empty phone case, a plastic ruler, grips for 1911, lots of black tape to hold it together, and for a rear sight, and a toothpick for a front sight. Make sure the front sight is the right distance as used on your gun, tape a business card to the end, where the front sight (toothpick) is, hold in front of you, and use the business card for an eye test chart.

IMG_6336.jpg

Fill the empty phone case with coins, to give it some weight, and you can use it for dry-fire practice when you travel, maybe with a wrist weight around your wrist.
 
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