9mm 1911 Comparison: Colt Competition vs Smith & Wesson Pro Series

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So, I will sum up what I think is general consensus:

1. Both Colt Competition & SW1911 Pro are well-regarded by those who have shot them.
2. "Buy a Dan Wesson instead" is a popular suggestion.
3. Given MSRP of SW 1911 Pro 9mm and DW Pointman P9 is less than $100 apart, #2 may have merit. If DW is the better pistol.
4. Some suggest buying a used DW in the neighborhood of $1000. I guess those are found next to the $3000 Ford F-150 Bullnose and OBS pickups in good running order with less than 100,000 miles. (Or one aisle over from the teriyaki-flavored unicorn jerky at the gun show.)
5. Buy something else also represented, that something else being Ruger or SA.
FYI:
Ruger SR1911 Target 9mm MSRP $1229
https://www.ruger.com/products/sr1911Target/specSheets/6759.html
So, in the $1100-$1600 budget range.

===============

Two questions, given what I have learned from this thread:
1. I wonder what is had for the more money paid for the SW1911 Pro vs the Colt Competition?
It looks like maybe the internal work, which is being charged the customer roughly $500 over the Colt Competition. I could do some of that myself (polish feed ramp, BTDT, good results).

2. Why the automatic, nigh-universal preference of Dan Wesson Pointman P9 over the SW1911 Pro 9mm?
I own two non-Pro SW1911s and have found them to be fine pistols, but I have zero experience with Dan Wesson 1911s. Just what makes the DW the obvious choice at that price point?
 
roo_ster said:
Why the automatic, nigh-universal preference of Dan Wesson Pointman P9 over the SW1911 Pro 9mm?
I own two non-Pro SW1911s and have found them to be fine pistols, but I have zero experience with Dan Wesson 1911s. Just what makes the DW the obvious choice at that price point?
Click to expand...

In my opinion, it’s because Dan Wesson tends to straddle that line between basic production guns and the semi custom.

Fit and finish is really the difference. Does a DW Valor actually shoot better than a Ruger (or Colt or Sig or S&W)? Eh, not really. Might have a little nicer trigger if you’re really good at feeling triggers.

But fit and finish are typically a step above, in my opinion. Especially when you are getting into that $1500-2000 range. Of course if you’re up there, Les Baer starts rearing it’s head and used Wilson or Ed Brown might start looking like an option, and those are again a little step above.

But really, if you’re looking for a range shooter and maybe occasional carry, sticking around that $1000 mark for the Colt or a Ruger or a Springfield, you are in a good place.
 
roo_ster said:
So, I will sum up what I think is general consensus:

1. Both Colt Competition & SW1911 Pro are well-regarded by those who have shot them.
2. "Buy a Dan Wesson instead" is a popular suggestion.
3. Given MSRP of SW 1911 Pro 9mm and DW Pointman P9 is less than $100 apart, #2 may have merit. If DW is the better pistol.
4. Some suggest buying a used DW in the neighborhood of $1000. I guess those are found next to the $3000 Ford F-150 Bullnose and OBS pickups in good running order with less than 100,000 miles. (Or one aisle over from the teriyaki-flavored unicorn jerky at the gun show.)
5. Buy something else also represented, that something else being Ruger or SA.
FYI:
Ruger SR1911 Target 9mm MSRP $1229
https://www.ruger.com/products/sr1911Target/specSheets/6759.html
So, in the $1100-$1600 budget range.

===============

Two questions, given what I have learned from this thread:
1. I wonder what is had for the more money paid for the SW1911 Pro vs the Colt Competition?
It looks like maybe the internal work, which is being charged the customer roughly $500 over the Colt Competition. I could do some of that myself (polish feed ramp, BTDT, good results).

2. Why the automatic, nigh-universal preference of Dan Wesson Pointman P9 over the SW1911 Pro 9mm?
I own two non-Pro SW1911s and have found them to be fine pistols, but I have zero experience with Dan Wesson 1911s. Just what makes the DW the obvious choice at that price point?
Click to expand...

I think the Ruger is a step down but it might meet your needs. Depending on how hard you intend on running the gun. It IMHO is a step below the 2 in your OP. I would buy it over a SA Range Officer.

If you want a $1200 Pointman 9mm PM me I will hook you up with someone who is selling one used right now for $1200 shipped to your FFL. Stand up shooter with a solid rep on the best 1911 board in the internet.

The biggest difference between the SW1911 and the Colt is the front strap checkering and maybe some basic trigger work. If you don't care about the front strap checkering then you can get a better trigger from a good smith and have a better trigger than the SW1911 even using the stock Colt parts. Upgrade to something like EGW or Harrison and you will be ahead of the S&W as long as the gun does not slip out of your sweaty hands. LOL The trigger on the SW might not be better than the Colt out of the box. Quality varies a bit at this level. If you put 6 examples of each gun on a table the triggers will vary between the 6 guns. IMHO

Dan Wesson is a the gateway drug to higher end 1911s. They were brought back from the dead by Bob Serva. The gun that put them on the map was a the Dan Wesson CBOB. It was the poor man's Ed Brown Beavertail. Early Dan Wessons had a cast frame. They were extremely well built small production line guns. Here is a pic of my CBOB.

qQiIqWg.png

They were bought by CZ, just like Colt. Once CZ owned them them improved the product. They went to all forged frames, all steel tooled parts better finishes. The Pointman gun is their entry level gun with a forged frame. There are other models which have alum frames but to me the Pointman is the jumping off point for their best offerings. They are still production line guns but the amount of fitting and finishing is higher than S&W Pros but still below say Les Baer. They are not a custom gun because they are still bought off the shelf. They are using match barrels and better fitting bushing which is where most of your accuracy is coming from. The barrel link is setup properly not just thrown together.

In the hand they just feel well made. There is quality and detail in their construction that is higher than Colt IMHO and I am 100% a Colt fan boy. It is Colt custom shop level at a lower price and honestly a better gun. Better part, better assemble and finishing of the gun is going to help it run better longer and it will take more abuse. These days lots of 1911s are built to a price point. They know the avg buyer is never going to shoot 10,000 rounds through the gun. If the gun as it ships will survive 2500 +/- they know it will last most owners "lifetimes". 1911s when you get to the Dan Wesson level are built to run longer than that. They are built to run 25,000+ with a few parts changes here and there. It is just an all around better gun. IMHO
 
If I didn't already have a SIG Match Elite 9mm/38 Super, I'd be on the lookout for a used Max Michel 9mm. I've shot a handful of different 1911 9mm's and that was what I should have held out for. My Match Elite is the softest shooting 9mm I've ever owned, but the SIG Max Michel 9mm is the softest I've ever shot. Not sure how it would carry concealed though and it is kinda late in the count for a curve ball, I know. Being out of production combined with inflation may put them completely out of the price range now, anyway.
 
WVsig said:
I think the Ruger is a step down but it might meet your needs. Depending on how hard you intend on running the gun. It IMHO is a step below the 2 in your OP. I would buy it over a SA Range Officer.

If you want a $1200 Pointman 9mm PM me I will hook you up with someone who is selling one used right now for $1200 shipped to your FFL. Stand up shooter with a solid rep on the best 1911 board in the internet.

The biggest difference between the SW1911 and the Colt is the front strap checkering and maybe some basic trigger work. If you don't care about the front strap checkering then you can get a better trigger from a good smith and have a better trigger than the SW1911 even using the stock Colt parts. Upgrade to something like EGW or Harrison and you will be ahead of the S&W as long as the gun does not slip out of your sweaty hands. LOL The trigger on the SW might not be better than the Colt out of the box. Quality varies a bit at this level. If you put 6 examples of each gun on a table the triggers will vary between the 6 guns. IMHO

Dan Wesson is a the gateway drug to higher end 1911s. They were brought back from the dead by Bob Serva. The gun that put them on the map was a the Dan Wesson CBOB. It was the poor man's Ed Brown Beavertail. Early Dan Wessons had a cast frame. They were extremely well built small production line guns. Here is a pic of my CBOB.

View attachment 1091860

They were bought by CZ, just like Colt. Once CZ owned them them improved the product. They went to all forged frames, all steel tooled parts better finishes. The Pointman gun is their entry level gun with a forged frame. There are other models which have alum frames but to me the Pointman is the jumping off point for their best offerings. They are still production line guns but the amount of fitting and finishing is higher than S&W Pros but still below say Les Baer. They are not a custom gun because they are still bought off the shelf. They are using match barrels and better fitting bushing which is where most of your accuracy is coming from. The barrel link is setup properly not just thrown together.

In the hand they just feel well made. There is quality and detail in their construction that is higher than Colt IMHO and I am 100% a Colt fan boy. It is Colt custom shop level at a lower price and honestly a better gun. Better part, better assemble and finishing of the gun is going to help it run better longer and it will take more abuse. These days lots of 1911s are built to a price point. They know the avg buyer is never going to shoot 10,000 rounds through the gun. If the gun as it ships will survive 2500 +/- they know it will last most owners "lifetimes". 1911s when you get to the Dan Wesson level are built to run longer than that. They are built to run 25,000+ with a few parts changes here and there. It is just an all around better gun. IMHO
Click to expand...

That is a full-featured answer, no doubt about it. I learned something today. Add to the two door locks I fixed and the gate issue I figured out, and I think I'm doing alright for a Sunday afternoon.

PM incoming.
 
Zerodefect said:
I still dont think your needs compute.

If you want to buy a fullsize 1911, just buy one.

Ccw, Uspsa, Idpa, and budget, all lead towards a different platform.
Click to expand...


OBJECTIVES
1. Mild-shooting 1911 my wife & daughter can shoot easier than my .45ACP 1911s.
2. 9mm generally cheap and cheaper than .45ACP. I reload several cartridges, no intention to reload 9mm.
3. This will be first a carry and then IDPA/USPSA gun. NOT a serious competitor. Gun OR myself.
4. Way WAY down the list is a possible .38Super conversion. May never happen, given what can be done with 9mm +P+.
5. Compatible with the 1911 carry gear I've accumulated the last two decades. (Why think I have dismissed the CZ75 & BHP.)​

A 9mm 1911 that can serve as a primary CCW, be pressed into use in IDPA(ESP)/USPSA(Single Stack?), and be used by the wimminfolk in my family. And use my existing 1911 carry gear. To that end, I had been examining the Colt Competition model and the SW1911 PRO and wanted observations form folk who had familiarity with one or both.

I try to cover a few bases with each firearm purchase and have a tendency to stretch the perceived utility of guns I own. I have never owned a strictly "game" gun. Not for clay sports, not for pistol sports. What gets used in the game is what I use in the field or when I'm out & about.
 
If you want to know why all the love for DW it’s simple: they don’t do gimmick, they use solid steel, and they used to have a very small facility with just a few highly trained employees. Regardless of model chosen, the base Wesson is always gonna be solid and according to a few well-versed smiths, very close to spot on dimensions.

Why less love of the S&W? Most have never held a Pro (including me). I do have an E-Series, advertised to be a step above the standard SW1911 but it was filled with parts displayed below. MIM and in a few cases suspect, along with standard production tolerances for barrel fit, bushing fit, etc. Note one of the few parts I have not replaced on my Smith is the grip safety, I simply polished it. Loosely fit.

Now I can’t say any of the above holds true for the PRO, only that when a manufacturer chooses to include a “value line” it begs the question how many corners might still be cut on better lines.


SS Colt parts, blackened parts S&W.
E426BF2C-7C29-422D-B30B-407A1FA65038.jpeg

Note wide space between frame and grip safety. Won’t see that on any Dan Wesson.
35395E6B-3223-4539-90C2-2E4A41B95E8E.jpeg
 
I have 2 Springfield Loaded 9mm 1911s (PI9134L)
#1 probably has 70k rounds thru it. (fiber front sight on #1 is not factory) Happy with both and they are about your price range.
(I know not on your list but a thought)

A 9mm 1911 is just a fun range gun.
GO for it, wife and daughter will be happy.

I have had good luck with Brownells 10 round 9mm 1911 mags in mine.


If you reload, no reason to not load 9mm.
A 124gr bullet loaded to about 1030 (128 PF or so) makes a nice load.
For my friends wife who had only shot a .22 I loaded up some 100gr bullets at about 1050, nice and soft. She liked the gun and wanted her husband to buy her one.
(He was not happy, would have prefered if she liked my XD better since it was cheaper, but I told him, Hea, she has good taste she married you right?:evil::D)
 

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Dudedog said:
I have 2 Springfield Loaded 9mm 1911s (PI9134L)
#1 probably has 70k rounds thru it. (fiber front sight on #1 is not factory) Happy with both and they are about your price range.
(I know not on your list but a thought)

A 9mm 1911 is just a fun range gun.
GO for it, wife and daughter will be happy.

I have had good luck with Brownells 10 round 9mm 1911 mags in mine.


If you reload, no reason to not load 9mm.
A 124gr bullet loaded to about 1030 (128 PF or so) makes a nice load.
For my fiends wife who had only shot a .22 I loaded up some 100gr bullets at about 1050, nice a soft. She liked the gun and wanted her husband to buy her one.
(He was not happy, would have prefered if she liked my XD better since it was cheaper, but I told him, Hea, she has good taste she married you right?:evil::D)
Click to expand...

70,000 rounds is no joke. OK, I will expand my search to include SA. My wife already has a 9mm SA 1911 lightweight OACP clone I bought her nigh on 20 years ago. even with 9mm, an aluminum aloy OACP can be snappy.

I use the Wilson Combat 1911 mags of various sorts and have been happy in my 1911s, S&W and SA. Maybe I will try the Brownells mags, too.

When my wife decides on a gun, it is usually the priciest gun of that sort I have yet to buy. I can shoot any old thing, but the gals have requirements that drive the cost up.
 
BTW the adjustable rears are factory.

I have replaced recoil and FP springs in #1, and a barrel bushing.
May be about time for a barrel soon, but all the above I consider normal wear and tear.

No issue with it, goes bang every time if the ammo is good, will cycle empty cases from the mag, so not picky about ammo.

Diamonds on #1 grips are worn to a nice shine:D

I bought #2 to have a spare as I am in CA and things have to be on the approved list (things come off the list) and I wanted to make sure I had another in case something was to happened to the first.
That would be a non issue in a free state but one of the "fun" things about living in CA.:barf:


#1 is my USPSA gun.
Now if it could just fix blind and stupid I might shoot matches better;)

I think list on them now is about $1100.
https://www.springfield-armory.com/...ed-target-9mm-handgun-stainless-ca-compliant/

PS: I know SA was not in your initial question, but seemed to be in your price range.
 
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Skylerbone said:
I do have an E-Series, advertised to be a step above the standard SW1911 but it was filled with parts displayed below.
Click to expand...
The E-Series is the base line level of S&W 1911. The difference they have between the other, earlier versions of the entry level S&W 1911's is the E-Series did away with the Mochak designed firing pin safety that the earlier S&W 1911's featured. There is no firing pin safety in the E-Series guns.
 
Another option would be Bul Armory, which I have heard is a bit of a sleeper. Made in Israel. Cast frame and probably some MIM parts but at the $800-900 price point they're supposed to have outstanding triggers, good fit and finish, and good accuracy for the price point. VZ grips. 25 LPI checkering is a fairly uncommon feature at the sub-$1,000 mark, as well.

60c7aee09e1402a2c3bdd6896ed84212d9924d1904390.jpeg
 
9mmepiphany said:
I've always been curious of what acceptable accuracy is at the sub-$1k price point for a 1911?
Click to expand...

To me inherent accuracy isn't really a factor because my individual marksmanship at 25 yards is at best a teacup saucer-sized group even with slow, aimed fire from a service-sized pistol from a two-hand unsupported position. As long as the gun is capable of doing that in my hands, it's accurate enough, whether or not it will do 2" at 50 yards from a rest.

To be honest I suspect most guns are quite capable of greater accuracy than most shooters.
 
Madcap_Magician said:
my individual marksmanship at 25 yards is at best a teacup saucer-sized group even with slow, aimed fire from a service-sized pistol from a two-hand unsupported position.
Click to expand...
So about 6" at 25 yards, which extrapolated out to 50 yards would be at least 12"

I suspect most guns are quite capable of greater accuracy than most shooters.
Click to expand...
I don't think most folks would disagree with this. I will add that inherent accuracy of a platform is important as you wouldn't want the lack of accuracy to add to the margin of error of the shooter's capability.

The commonly accepted accuracy standard for a "combat pistol" for the last 60 years has been 5 rounds into 4" at 50 yards shooting free-style from the "roll-over prone" position. Free-style off a bench with your wrists supported on a bag gives about the same results. The best I've seen at that distance was 5 shots in just over 1" shooting a SIG X-Five in SA
 
9mmepiphany said:
So about 6" at 25 yards, which extrapolated out to 50 yards would be at least 12"


I don't think most folks would disagree with this. I will add that inherent accuracy of a platform is important as you wouldn't want the lack of accuracy to add to the margin of error of the shooter's capability.

The commonly accepted accuracy standard for a "combat pistol" for the last 60 years has been 5 rounds into 4" at 50 yards shooting free-style from the "roll-over prone" position. Free-style off a bench with your wrists supported on a bag gives about the same results. The best I've seen at that distance was 5 shots in just over 1" shooting a SIG X-Five in SA
Click to expand...

To me an accurate 1911 is one that can shoot sub 2" groups at 50 yards. I think your 4" group from a combat handgun is about right and what I would expect from a sub $1000 1911 right out of the box. I image most Govt model guns will be close to that mark even at a sub $1000 price point. There will be some variance but I would imagine most are going to make a 4"-5" group at 25 yards.
 
9mmepiphany said:
So about 6" at 25 yards, which extrapolated out to 50 yards would be at least 12"


I don't think most folks would disagree with this. I will add that inherent accuracy of a platform is important as you wouldn't want the lack of accuracy to add to the margin of error of the shooter's capability.

The commonly accepted accuracy standard for a "combat pistol" for the last 60 years has been 5 rounds into 4" at 50 yards shooting free-style from the "roll-over prone" position. Free-style off a bench with your wrists supported on a bag gives about the same results. The best I've seen at that distance was 5 shots in just over 1" shooting a SIG X-Five in SA
Click to expand...

I'm actually going to have to try that position. I imagine seated with elbows on a table would be pretty similar. None of the handgun ranges I have access to will really facilitate shooting from prone or seated, unfortunately. So I've never really had a chance to test a handgun's inherent accuracy since the error from the shooting position I have to shoot from and my personal skill is greater than the error from mechanical accuracy in any gun I own.

But I know what you're talking about, I've shot rifle from seated supported at the same distance and target, and the results are widely different between a janky old SKS with half the sight radius of my AR-15 or M1.
 
Madcap_Magician said:
None of the handgun ranges I have access to will really facilitate shooting from prone or seated, unfortunately.
Click to expand...
I guess I've just been lucky. Public ranges that I frequent usually have a shelf at the firing line for you to place gear/ammo on. I just pull up a folding chair to the shelf. Or I'll go over to the rifle side of the line...after all, you are shooting at 50 yards.

Most commonly, I'll shoot on an Action Pistol bay. Seated on a folding chair behind a plastic 5 gallon barrel
 
9mmepiphany said:
I guess I've just been lucky. Public ranges that I frequent usually have a shelf at the firing line for you to place gear/ammo on. I just pull up a folding chair to the shelf. Or I'll go over to the rifle side of the line...after all, you are shooting at 50 yards.

Most commonly, I'll shoot on an Action Pistol bay. Seated on a folding chair behind a plastic 5 gallon barrel
Click to expand...

I'm in an odd situation for ranges. I have two indoor ranges less than a mile from my house with mainly pistol lanes to 25 yards. One of them has rifle lanes to 100 yards and there may be folding chairs in there that you could shoot from the shelves by the target control. Next time I go I'll see if there are chairs I could grab in the pistol ranges. The outdoor ranges have action pistol bays and movable tables and chairs, but they require expensive annual memberships and are also a fair bit of a drive - 20-30 minutes, which is funny since I think most people probably have an outdoor range much closer to them, while I've got two indoor ones within walking distance.
 
Madcap_Magician said:
The outdoor ranges have action pistol bays and movable tables and chairs, but they require expensive annual memberships and are also a fair bit of a drive - 20-30 minutes
Click to expand...
The outdoor range I usually shoot and compete at is about 30 mins away and the range fee is $7 (just went up from $5). If you aren't a member ($120/yr), you can use the Action Pistol bays for $17, but you can't reserve one...has to be empty when you get there
 
Madcap_Magician said:
None of the handgun ranges I have access to will really facilitate shooting from prone or seated, unfortunately.
Click to expand...
We have a picnic table type set up (covered) at each pistol bay and most have an extra loose chair or two as well.
 
I have a Springfield Range Officer and a Colt Gold Cup, both chambered in 9x19. The Range Officer has been a good reliable pistol. I have not put many rounds through the Gold Cup but it has been fine so far.

I have no experience with the S&W 1911's. I have one 1911 with an external extractor, a Caspian slide model that I built and it works fine. I'm not excited about the external extractor but it does works so don't let that prevent you from buying an S&W. S&W 1911's have had good reputations over time.

Another option for soft shooting 1911's would be to buy a Gold Cup. Shoot it with 180-200 grain semi-wadcutters with target level springs. If full power loads are wanted to be shot, it is a simple matter to replace the springs. The Gold Cup came with both sets of springs, or it used to before CZ took over.
 
No 9mm Colt Competition, but do have the .45 version. Good trigger, and milder recoil, than some other 1911s in the safe. The Competition has a dual recoil system in .45.
Have a 9mm Commander and Deffy, and both run without drama.
Moon
 
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