Hypothetical question 45ACP vs 357 mag

.308 Norma said:

You have to get yourself a 4" Model 69 Smith for an "adventure" pistol. I sure wouldn't want to be without mine.

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I hope I can find one in September

1911 versus a revolver; I'd take the 1911 every time.
8 or 9 rounds fully loaded (depending on magazine) versus 6 ... advantage 1911
Speed of subsequent shots .... advantage 1911 (I'd be quicker with 1911 than revolver)
Speed of reload ... advantage 1911 (speaking for myself)
Full disclosure: The pistol in question could even be a 9mm Glock 26 or Sig 365 and I'd pick it over a revolver (antique)

I would carry the 1911. Every threat you listed will be easily addressed with either, BTW. I shoot any auto that works better than any revolver, plus faster reloads, plus a gun that is thinner and able to ride closer to my body is just better for me.

this is just me, and i'm far from any kind of expert, but dirt bike/adventuring brings the possibility of lots of .....dirt.
i would think the revolver would be more reliable, at least for me. i tend to get dirtier than anybody with anything that involves the possibility of getting dirty, falling in dirt, etc.....
i have a 1911, and i really like it, but a revolver can handle being dirty better than a 1911, in my experience.

If your main concern is defense against humans, I would go with the 1911. I like .357 revolvers a lot, but a semi auto is going to be a lot easier to reload and with both of these being low round count weapons, I think that’s important.

Yes there are speed loaders available for revolvers, but when was the last time you practiced (quickly) unloading your revolver and then reloading it (quickly) with a speed loader? Most people don’t - it’s a different process than a normal plinking reload. But loading a semi-auto quickly is going to be much more similar to how you load it when plinking.

I know this is a gun forum but I would focus more on the primary activity (which is being on the bike) and how that affects your carrying of the gun, rather than which gun is better for shooting.

What kind of riding are you doing? “Adventure riding” can be a lot of things, so what percent of road to off road, and what kind of off road (well maintained dirt road, unmaintained double/single track, or even trials type terrain)? That all gets to the type, severity, and frequency of potential crashes. In short, a crash on the road is more likely to be at higher speed and involve some impact while you’re vertical on the bike, while off road probably has a higher chance of being at a lower speed and losing traction (so single bike just falling down). At the extreme end (trials type riding) you can sometimes just step off the bike when it goes. (For those unfimiliar, trials has a lot of small/light bikes and emphasizes slow speed balance rather than getting through a course quickly - this is where you get a guy balancing a stationary motorcycle on a log for 2 minutes without putting a foot down)

Anyway, it is much more likely that you’ll crash while wearing the gun than actually have to use the gun, so I’d make sure to cover that base. If you have the gun around your waist, you have a concern about breaking your pelvis or hip, and if it’s close to 5-6 o’clock, your spine becomes a concern as well. A shoulder holster puts it next to your ribs which can lead to bruised/broken ribs and worst case punctured lungs. From what I have seen in motorcycle accidents, I would probably lean towards a shoulder holster as that seems to be a less common area to injure compared to pelvis/hips.

I would also recommend finding a way to get a separate piece of D30 armor between you and the gun (and mag/speed loader carrier). I would try to attach it to the holster itself rather than rely on a separate piece of armor.

And finally, make sure you can use the gun while fully geared up. That includes practicing drawing and changing mags. Make sure you can do everything with the gloves you wear while riding. Depending on your gloves, sometimes the armor can be a little weird and you don’t want to find those quirks during a gunfight.

WisBorn said:

Well I would carry the 45acp on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.
The 357mag on Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday.
And alternate on Sundays.

In other words it would be hard to go wrong with either!!!

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No, no, no. He will need to get a dedicated Sunday gun and add that to his CCW (I'm in Texas. I'm not sure how that works outside of God's Country.)

If you’re wearing a jacket and gloves, the revolver on the chest or under the shoulder would be my choice. Gloved fingers with a stiff double-action.

Here in Arkansas, we have beaucoup Black Bears, plenty of snakes, and I've seen a mountain lion or two. And we don't just have the occasional nutcase living in the Ozarks -- we have lost civilizations.

I cut my teeth on the M1911, but I've put down two VC with the .357. I don't carry my 1911 much in the woods because it spits the brass all over Hell's Half Acre. For woods carry, I go with my Colt New Service in .45 Colt. I load 255-grain semi wadcutters to around 1,000 FPS. I carry two speed loaders (those designed for S&W .45s work fine with Colts.)

I trimmed the barrel on this gun from 7 1/2" to 5 1/2" and mounted adjustable sights and Herrett Shooting Master grips.

I don't use wheeled vehicles in the woods -- I mostly hike or ride horseback. I live on a 160 acre farm (mostly all wooded) and have access to several thousand acres. I spend a LOT of time in the outdoors.

"I've actually thought about cutting my index finger off of my spoon hand glove just for this reason."

Try Glo-Mitts. Natural Gear Stealth Glomitts Polyester Natural Camo XL/2XL (midwayusa.com)

One of my neighbors is a State Supreme Court Justice. There was a bad meth-head I ran off my property and she asked me to keep him off her property, too.

I said, "Josephine, these guys are DANGEROUS and I don't want to go to jail for shooting him."

And she said, "You shoot that SOB and I guarantee you won't go to jail."

citizenconn said:

No, no, no. He will need to get a dedicated Sunday gun and add that to his CCW (I'm in Texas. I'm not sure how that works outside of God's Country.)

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I was trying to be respectful. If Waterboy just bought a motorcycle and only has two handguns he may not have the $$$ for an additional firearm. He has made comments about acquiring a 44mag Smith and Wesson (69).

As a THR enabler I strongly recommend that he buys a weekend Friday, Saturday, and Sunday 44 swaps out the grips on Sunday with some BBQ style walnut...
Monday and Tuesday 45acp, Wednesday and Thursday 357mag time

WisBorn said:

Well I would carry the 45acp on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.
The 357mag on Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday.
And alternate on Sundays.

In other words it would be hard to go wrong with either!!!

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Carry both at the same time, one as a BUG!

aaaaa said:

Carry both at the same time, one as a BUG!

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They would be very large BUG carry

Waterboy3313 said:

I have a Kimber TLE 2 full size 1911 in 45acp. I also have a Ruger GP 100 in 357 magnum with a 6 barrel. Both of these are on my ccw permit. I'm not a competition shooter but I feel like I shoot both of them exceptionally well. I just ordered a shoulder holster for the revolver and still waiting for it to be delivered.

I recently bought an adventure type motorcycle. My brother bought one as well. We have been riding the trails and remote dirt back roads of far northern California for the last few weekends.

My question is of the two hand guns I mentioned earlier which one would you carry and why? Obviously it's for personal protection and hopefully never needed. We have mountain lions, black bears, rattlesnakes off grid people like from deliverence and some people even say wolves around here.

Like I said hopefully never needed but if something happens in the middle of nowhere and left alone for a break down or whatever. I've carrying my 9mm shield but I don't ever want to have to face a hungry mt lion or bear with that or let alone at all. My goal is to leave the wild life alone but to have a plan if things go sideways.

Both firearms are loaded with my hand loads. The 357 packs a full load of h110 and Hornady xtp 158gr bullet. The 45 acp is loaded with either a 230gr hollow point or 185gr Hornady z-max with hefty load of tite group.

I'm leaning towards the 357 so far but if you had to pick one of the two I would like to know the reason why.

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The Shield is exactly what I would carry, or perhaps my Glock of equivalent size. I'm not worried at all about bears and a mountain lion is going to be on you before you know it's coming since they are ambush predators. My concern with the larger handguns would be that they aren't that easy to conceal in a shoulder holster and in California concealment would be paramount.

My 1st choice has always been a .357 Magnum. No question that it is more powerful, and I shoot mine pretty well and better than a Colt ACP. A 45 ACP is not going to penetrate nearly as well and the .357 has been used to take all sorts of big game. Now a 10 MM gives you a real close choice. But everyone likes a Colt 45, and it would probably work as well except for very large animals.
I used to ride alot, mostly Harleys but also a couple BMW and KLR's and a Buell Ulysses. I kept a .357 in a saddlebag that was locked. Can't shoot when you are riding anyway. Maybe a pocket .380 or something too.

I was an avid rider before we had kids. Forget all the nonsense about caliber or platform, I would make my choice based simply on what I could shoot best while wearing my riding gloves and other gear.

I am jumping in a bit late but here are few of my thoughts. My bike is a TW200 put-put mule. I bought it for hunting and easy going through the desert. I shoot in the desert quite a bit and get to shoot at any distance I like. Without a doubt, a good 6" .357 is easier to get hits with than a 1911 at longer range. I love the 1911 platform, but generally speaking a generic 5" Govt model is not built for long range shooting. I also have a Glock 20 in 10mm which does a better job at the longer range stuff. You can also throw in the hunting barrel to get some extra velocity and range. If longer shots and power were the deciding factor, I would stick to the GP100 and call it good.

One last thought: Being in CA definitely limits shopping for new guns. One gun to consider is the Glock 30SF. It holds 10 rounds, is about the same size as a 19, is very soft shooting, is as accurate as my 1911's, and takes a beating like no other. If you wipe out, you can take the gun apart with any type of pointy object, clean out the junk and reassembly with ease. I realize that leaves you right back where you are with the 1911, but with a gun that is more in tune with off roading. I like to carry my Glocks in an Gunfighters Inc. Kenai chest holster when I am riding. I find this holster to be very comfortable at my put/put pace. I am not sure how it would do with aggressive riding. Glock is a solid choice to consider although I realize the 1911 has been to hell and back. The 30SF seems to be a sleeper in the Glock line-up.

Keep us updated.

I have ridden dirt bikes and camped in the Colorado backcountry and hiked designated Wilderness areas for 30 years.

If you feel you need a gun for people, bring whatever you want. People are hairless, thin skinned, lightly muscled animals. We stand erect, presenting a very vulnerable area for aiming a firearm. Tales of men taking multiple rounds before dying tend to be exaggerated. If you are not a cop or a federal agent kicking in doors, the chances of needing several magazines to put down an attacker are very slim, although not zero.

If you are in cougar country, bring a camera, not a gun. They are skittish and unless they are sick or starving, very unlikely to ever be seen, let alone attack a man.

Bears are tough. A 250 pound bear is much tougher to kill than a 250 pound man. The term "loaded for bear" exists for a reason. Bears are much denser than a man of equal size. You need a well constructed bullet of sufficient weight at a good velocity to penetrate to a bear's organs. Same is true of almost any game animal. Remember that they are feral. They live hard lives and have to be tough to survive.

To answer your question, I would carry a .357 with a JSP or a lead SWC. Possibly Hornady's FTX.

Buffalo Bore's 180 grain hard cast at 1400fps will shut down anything on this continent, and likely all of them.

I have had a couple 44 Mags. The problem is the recoil makes follow up shots slow, and they are tougher to carry and conceal. Fun though.

Armored farmer said:

I consider the. 45acp 1911 to be the premier self defense pistol.
Reasons:
*IMHO bullet diameter matters.
*longer sight plane.(edit, not with a 6"bbl)
*quicker and convenient reloads.
*thinner profile
*field strip advantages
*holster choices

It comes down to personal choices.
I really like .357 and would struggle with the question myself.

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This^^^^^^^^^^^^^! I carried a 1911 throughout my military career and additionally another 20 years after retirement. Kind of hard to beat the 1911 in my opinion. I can shoot it successfully at a 100 yards. About 8 years ago I begin to carry a 686 and own one also in 6 barrel and a couple of pythons, having experience with both firearms I too would choose the 1911 for the backcountry. As a matter of fact I upgraded from a 1911 45 acp to a Springfield 1911 long slide with a 6" barrel in 10mm. That is what I carry now in my hunting trips.

I have a 4" in both and my primary is the wheel gun. I absolutely run low tech cast bullets because that's what I practice with at least once a week and much more often when supplies were easy to get. I believe I get better barrier penitration and almost no drop to the furthest reasonable range... in the case of a wild animal I'm engaging early and worrying about explaining later.... I don't shoot snakes.