wbm
Member
Been there, done that. 1978 In a small persimmon grove in the Chiricahua's. Just stay in the tree a while...they go away. No need to shoot at them
Is 20 Rounds of 5.56 Enough?
- Thread starter JCooperfan1911
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MarshallDodge
Member
Well, I've owned or had access to an AR-15 pattern rifle for 35 years, and have never fired a shot in self defense.
Now for all those targets in 3-gun matches, 20 rounders aren't always enough
Now for all those targets in 3-gun matches, 20 rounders aren't always enough
Hokkmike
Member
Sure..
If intruders come after your possessions, they will probably have an idea of your wealth but not your firepower.
However, on the other hand, anyone who knows the firepower you have and is still willing to do a home invasion,
they will bring it heavy plus help. Yet that in itself isn't very likely to happen.
The ones we worry about most is people with stun guns or pepper spray to start off their invasion, just don't ever
open the door for a stranger, that is the #1 rule here.
But on the 20 rounds, that is our standard mag load, with other surprises.
However, on the other hand, anyone who knows the firepower you have and is still willing to do a home invasion,
they will bring it heavy plus help. Yet that in itself isn't very likely to happen.
The ones we worry about most is people with stun guns or pepper spray to start off their invasion, just don't ever
open the door for a stranger, that is the #1 rule here.
But on the 20 rounds, that is our standard mag load, with other surprises.
rabid wombat
Member
Anything worth shooting once, is worth shooting again….
Home intruders of today are much smarter that they were years ago. They see other intruders getting shot & killed so you can guarantee they will have some way to defend themselves legal or not. The don't obey laws in the first place.
So do you think you will need more than 20 rounds, if it was me I would want all the ammo I could carry.
So do you think you will need more than 20 rounds, if it was me I would want all the ammo I could carry.
Since most of my shooting isn't going to be at a BG I have 20 rd mags in my AR. It is easier also to keep track of how many rounds or boxes of ammo I'm going thru while target practicing.Sounds stupid but ammo isn't cheap these days. Also if I shoot prone it will be better.20's are plenty.
rdnktrkr
Member
All my ARs have 20rnd mags installed (or less if a different caliber than 556) with a mag carrier that holds 3 spare mags that are all 30rnd mags, I like the shorter mags also when carrying one with a sling, if you ever shoot of a bench or prone you will need a 20rnd or rest the mag on the surface. I have purchased some 20 and 30rnd plastic mags that didn't operate at 100% so look for some better quality mags, I've not had any problems with aluminum mags after I clean them.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
That is pretty good marksmanship. If the goal was to just hit the target anywhere, he would get a high score. It helped that he was a good shot because it apparently took him 10 shots to stop the threat. Usually, folks don't get awards for marksmanship when it comes to gun battles, but one officer did. He shot his pistol very well at 100 yards, almost hitting the barricaded bad guy several times. In fact, he didn't correct properly for holdover and missed the guy every time, but shot a nice group.
Claude Deckard was awarded the Distinguished Law Enforcement Award by the Illinois Police Association for his superior marksmanship, despite missing the target and not stopping the threat.
From the article...
He had exhibited enviable marksmanship and coolness under superior fire at 100 yards, and subsequently was awarded the Distinguished Law Enforcement Award by the Illinois Police Association. He just didn't have the hold-over right.
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Barr...ntwell+incident.+(The+Ayoob+Files)-a090099697
Are you suggesting that JCOOPERFAN1911 should base his defensive needs on Kyle Rittenhouse's shooting?
If you were picking examples, why not the Glenn St. Mary home invasion incident where one resident fired over 30 rounds from an AR15 in helping fend off 7 home invaders.
https://www.news4jax.com/news/2018/...d-from-ar-15-in-deadly-florida-home-invasion/
What about the May 2019 Tallahassee, FL home invasion where the occupant fired 25 rounds at 4 invaders?
https://www.wtxl.com/news/local-news/tpd-investigating-home-invasion-robbery
https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/self-defense-ar15/372251
You asked about defense against what? That is a good question. It is often hard to know what the defensive needs are before the actual defensive event. You can plan for more typical events such as robberies, home invasions, etc. or you can plan for extreme events such as societal breakdown and foreign invasions.
People seem more concerned about the extreme events than mundane, everyday concerns, but it is the mundane stuff that apparently kills a lot more people on a much more regular basis. With that said, while home invasions are very common in the sense that they happen all across the country, every day, chances are they won't happen to most people. Chances are if you are home invaded, you won't be invaded by a crew of 4 or more people.
md7
Member
Probably so.
Just as a personal preference, I’d feel a little better with 30 and a reload.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Well, it's more than one. And magazines are conveniently changed out for more, as opposed to single shot, double barrel, or revolvers. (Unless you're Jerry Miculek, of course.)
It's more than most single stack magazines. (I say most, because if memory serves me an older brother of mine once had a 25 round extended 1911 magazine for giggles.)
I agree that in general, "more is better", but there's also "this is adequate", "that's a bit much", and "dang if I'm going to carry around all that extra weight".
Seems quite adequate to me, especially given that extra magazines make more readily available.
Ignition Override
Member
Double Naught Spy: You mentioned those two home invasions involving multiple attackers.
Even if there somehow had been (up to) twenty of these scenarios, wouldn't the chance of this happening, in the US, equate to about 1 in a Million?
With hypothetically approx. 100 such invasions, still about practically zero?
To avoid the only such scenario I've ever heard of in our city (it is a Very expensive neighborhood in Collierville TN: nobody was hurt-but robbed), keeping Quiet around house cleaners and service people --about Inoperative home security systems -- seems to make All the difference. And that family was known to keep jewels as a "target".
Do many people on THR own a jewelry store and have a 'publicized' inop home security system? Doubt it. This might be kinda rare.
Even if there somehow had been (up to) twenty of these scenarios, wouldn't the chance of this happening, in the US, equate to about 1 in a Million?
With hypothetically approx. 100 such invasions, still about practically zero?
To avoid the only such scenario I've ever heard of in our city (it is a Very expensive neighborhood in Collierville TN: nobody was hurt-but robbed), keeping Quiet around house cleaners and service people --about Inoperative home security systems -- seems to make All the difference. And that family was known to keep jewels as a "target".
Do many people on THR own a jewelry store and have a 'publicized' inop home security system? Doubt it. This might be kinda rare.
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trackskippy
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This is starting to sound like the hand-wrenching decision of choosing and justifying a little pistol over a full size pistol to carry.
Use what works best for you and makes you happy, and regardless what you choose, work on the more important, "shooting the gun realistically" part, so the 10 round difference in initial rounds in the gun, are less of an issue.
Working on your reloads is probably a good idea too, if you already dont.
Use what works best for you and makes you happy, and regardless what you choose, work on the more important, "shooting the gun realistically" part, so the 10 round difference in initial rounds in the gun, are less of an issue.
Working on your reloads is probably a good idea too, if you already dont.
SP5
member
For HD? Likely enough. For the apocalypse? Not even close
gila_dog1
Member
20 rounds and still shooting? Put another magazine in and keep shooting zombies. Just remember, every shot you fire, even in self defense, is your personal responsibility forever. Not hitting your targets? What are you hitting? Probably something, or someone else beyond the targets. Just sayin...
Zygodactyl
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A rifle caliber AR fired 20 times or more in your house would endanger your neighbors and you would be responsible for every shot that leaves the premises. A better choice would be a pistol caliber or a shotgun. Number 4 buck would give you 20 projectiles per shot. If you ever watched a cowboy match, some use model 1897 pumps and load through the ejection port, grabbing two rounds at a time from a bandoleer or belt. So, if you keep your bandoleer next to your pump you could continue firing after you depleted the magazine. That would give you 56 rounds of 12 gauge or 1,120 projectiles. Number 4 buck is .24 caliber. Would a thousand rounds be enough?
AlexanderA
Member
How do you carry your loaded mags? Since the early 1980's, the standard army web gear has been designed around 30-round magazines. Everybody who owns an AR should have a standard loadout of magazines (at least 6 30-rounders in the web gear, plus one in the gun). Never mind actually using any of this stuff. The mere presence of AR's, plus the equipment that goes with them, among the civilian population, serves as the civic deterrent envisioned by the Founders in the 2nd Amendment.
That said, I keep 20-rounders in my AR's because it's easier to store them in the racks that way.
Stock up on magazines -- of all types -- now, before they get outlawed.
That said, I keep 20-rounders in my AR's because it's easier to store them in the racks that way.
Stock up on magazines -- of all types -- now, before they get outlawed.
Shanghai McCoy
Member
Out here there's a coon problem so you often hear shots at night. Some are even mine..
Hasn't been a problem.Gotta say, while it's not a self defense situation, taking night shots at a running coon with the flashlight mounted pump shot gun usually takes me three rounds.
citizenconn
Member
I've got a coon problem as well in that they are bad about cutting in line when its feeding time for the outside critters around my place. The cats wait patiently for their turn, the possums are pretty good about waiting their turns, even the odd armadillo hangs over to the edge waiting its turn. But the raccoons have grabby little fingers and aren't above snatching someone else's dinner right out from under them. They are also bad about dirtying up all the water bowls. I guess there are worse problems to have.
epags
Member
You shoot until the threat is neutralized. The old joke is "Why did you shoot the perp 10 times? Because that is all the magazine would hold."
epags
Member
Did you ever answer the question "What is the scenerio? You against how many? You are in a safe room in your house? and so on.
JeeperCreeper
Member
Neither 20 nor 30 rounders make the dreaded "racking the pump shotgun" sound so neither are good for defense.
I'm just kidding. Pros and cons. With risk assessment, I would assume it's likely enough for most situations.
The pro is that can be less likely to hang you up on things in a dark home by a small margin
I'm just kidding. Pros and cons. With risk assessment, I would assume it's likely enough for most situations.
The pro is that can be less likely to hang you up on things in a dark home by a small margin
centraltxshooter.com
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it really depends on what your wanting the mags for? if your at the shooting range in close quarters than i would personally would want more than 20. If you just shooting a few rounds then 20 is plenty. I have former ex special forces who have 100 round mags on their AR rifles for personal defense. It really depends on what your looking to do. I was able to find a 100 mag for my AR 15 from a local store.
AlexanderA
Member
The more rounds in a magazine, the more potential for malfunctions. The problem with most over-30 mags for the AR is that they don't feed reliably. One of the few 40 rounders that does work reliably was made by Sterling in England, and designed for dual use in the AR-15 and AR-180. These are really pricey, if you can find them at all.
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