New Sharps - Smokeless Load Data?

Learn something new, stick with real black powder. It's nowhere near as corrosive as the scare stories would have you believe. Just clean after shooting.

Black cleans just as easy as smokeless. Run a damp patch every shot or three to keep fouling down. Then at the end of the day a few patches to clean, a oil patch to oil. Wipe down the rifle exterior.

Bob's yer uncle. Almost no different from smokelss.

It can be done but research carefully and use the guidance of others that have worked up the same type of loads.

In the early 90's I worked up a smokeless load for my .45-70 1873 Springfield TD using 30gr IMR 3031 under a 405gr bullet from my Rapine mold (which sadly I let go) cast in pure linotype and SPG lube. In my situation, the sewer pipe bore of my TD simply would not group shooting BP unless I swabbed the bore between shots.

At that time I had a boatload of linotype and a few theories that may or may not be correct, but I surmised the worn down and pitted bore of that rifle wouldn't hold a bullet very well unless it was cast hard. At the same time, using smokeless kept the bore in better shape between shots vs the fouling of BP.

After the case was charged I placed a waxed milk carton wad over the powder then used corn meal filler to the base of the bullet. No compression, just to keep the charge against the primer regardless of rifle orientation in order to boost consistency. My notes from August 1993 state, "accuracy fairly good, 7 of 10 shots into 4 inches at 100 yards".

That's with iron sights from a solid bench. I couldn't shoot that good today if someone paid me, but at that time I was thrilled. The recoil was mild and I only selected the charge after careful research in the print media of the day, as I did not want to push anything to the breaking point, a critical consideration in the relatively weak TD action.

All said and done though, I concur completely with @dave951, don't let concerns of corrosion get in the way of using BP. These days I exclusively use Ballistol to clean BP guns, with complete satisfaction. A mix of 2 parts water to 1 part Ballistol in a squirt bottle works like a charm to remove fouling and get the exterior wiped down, with straight Ballistol in the bore for longer term corrosion prevention. People will always have differing opinions on what works best but that's what I'm doing these days.

Your rifle and you get to do what you want with it. That said it just strikes me as WRONG to shoot smokeless powder in a black powder cartridge through a black powder era designed rifle. I have a Shiloh '74 Business Rifle chambered in 50 2-1/2" Sharps Straight. It hasn't fired anything but black powder and cast bullets since it came into my possession. And it won't until they pry it from my cold dead fingers.

Dave

I’m jealous. Wish I could play with a new Sharps. I cruised the net and found the following article, the first one I came to with smokeless load info. I have no experience with the .40-65 so I can’t vouch for the information. Any risks are yours. Hope you will post an update on your experience-experimenting.



https://www.thefreelibrary.com/.40-...er+is+equally+at+home+in+lever...-a0218591407

Dave T said:

Your rifle and you get to do what you want with it. That said it just strikes me as WRONG to shoot smokeless powder in a black powder cartridge through a black powder era designed rifle. I have a Shiloh '74 Business Rifle chambered in 50 2-1/2" Sharps Straight. It hasn't fired anything but black powder and cast bullets since it came into my possession. And it won't until they pry it from my cold dead fingers.

Dave

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That's how I feel! The idea of putting smokeless powder through something like this sounds horribly dangerous and takes the fun out of it if you ask me. It's not that hard to clean with soap and water and is all that's required to shoot real black powder

Heck, laziness is no problem, some Windex and a very few passes will clean up the bore when using Swiss powder. I have been shooting black forever, and have never had a spot of rust anywhere on anything. Fear not! You may remain lazy, and still shoot black powder! You will go through twice the trouble working up a smokeless load. A lazy person would not do that! Stop!!! You will make us other lazy people look bad.

I have only shot Swiss in my .40-65 Browning/Miroku.
Hodgdon has some smokeless loads but not 3031.
Varget works for them.

Us lazy people must stick together.

That's what I meant. Or energy efficient.

Use ballistol to clean the rifle when shooting black power. Use it straight or mix it with water known as moose milk. I use a 50/50 concentration, while others use a 70/30 concentration of water and ballistol. Ballistol can be used to clean and lube at the same time and you can use to polish the stock as well.

As far as load data for black power all my friends that shoot black powder just say to fill the case to the brim and compress the powder with the bullet. Unlike smokeless powder, there should not be an air gap between the powder and the bullet. I still have all my fingers and my pretty face.

I too was worried about all that nonsense when it came to shooting my Pedersoli Sharps (.45-70) and was absolutely thrilled to find out mine loves my BP handloads and cleans up slicker than pig snot with soapy water...and all the fouling stays in the barrel and gets pushed out the muzzle. There are no pressures to worry about; just fill the case full of BP, compress it with a wad and seat the bullet on top of it. Easy Peasy.

I might mention that I'm launching 535gr Postells out of my '74. That's a hunka-hunka burnin' lead to get moving and I wouldn't care to think of the pressure spikes smokeless would generate getting that locomotive moving, even though the Pedersoli is proofed for smokeless. As was said, the Sharps was DESIGNED for black powder loads with a black powder cartridge; in my case the venerable .45/70. I say shoot BP loads and you will have more fun that is deemed legal in most states.

It's not BP that's corrosive, it was the replacement stuff, pryodex for one, that ruined many a barrel.
Congratulations on your new Sharpes and 40-65 is a "cool" caliber.
I seem to recall that the BP silhouette guys at our club would fire form brass from .303 british brass . But that was way back in the 90's. (The 1990's... )

No, .40-65 WCF became popular because it is a neckdown of .45-70. Originating as a light bullet express type round for the 1886 lever action, BPCR picked it up because it is easy to make but we load it with heavy bullets for longer ranges.

A .303 (or .30-40) case can be opened up and stretched to make .40-70 Sharps Straight. Don't stretch it and you get .40-60 Maynard, which I read about in an article by Steve Garbe.

I once talked to a guy at a gun show who put a little taper on .444 Marlin cases to make a wildcat .40 for his single shots.

My mistake, they must have been forming 40-60 brass.

Geez, when I was shooting regular BPCR, 500 rounds would be enough for nine of the Metallic Silhouette matches I was going to.

Cliff Roberts said:

That's actually good info, too ! I need a good lead on some brass. I have about 200 rds loaded but I'm one of those freaks who stays awake at night thinking about all the calibers for which I have fewer than 500 rounds...

Right now I'm resizing and trimming 45-70 brass but that's getting hard to find at a fair price.

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It's getting hard to find at ANY price.

Shanghai McCoy said:

It's not BP that's corrosive, it was the replacement stuff, pryodex for one, that ruined many a barrel.

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Pyrodex isn't any more corrosive than bp. I have gone as long as nine days without cleaning with no rust or corrosion after shooting Pyrodex.

hawg said:

Pyrodex isn't any more corrosive than bp. I have gone as long as nine days without cleaning with no rust or corrosion after shooting Pyrodex.

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hawg,

Not saying that wasn't your experience but mine was 180 degrees from that. Back in the mid-1980s I got into early CAS shooting and acquired a Rossi Coachgun for competition. I found some brass shotgun shells and loaded Pyrodex in them as I had been told it was less corrosive than black. After one match I had time to clean my revolvers and rifle but the shotgun had to wait until the next morning.

When I did get around to it both barrels were very dirty and I couldn't get them clean, the left worse than the right. No amount of scrubbing with every concoction I could think of or find would not clean those 12ga barrels. I finally figured out they weren't dirty, they were pitted, and this was in the desert SW. Won't fire Pyrodex through anything I own ever again.

YMMV,
Dave