Unusual Lee Enfield No.1 MkIII stock

Those notches are reminiscent -- regarding shape and spacing -- of the notches on the SKS (handguard) and AK47 (forend and handguard). My guess is that this rifle came from South Asia (Afghanistan, Pakistan, India) and the previous owners wanted it to resemble the ComBloc rifles prevalent in the area.

Just because it was made in the London Small Arms factory doe not mean that it didn't end up in South Asia or any other part of the world that British or Commonwealth troops were sent to. A lot of British Enfield rifles have been left in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Yes, it's the confluence of Enfield and ComBloc rifles that lead me to think South Asia.

Interesting cuts for sure. I have a No1 MkIII* Ishy that was "reworked" by Golden State Arms back when you could order guns through the mail.


Most of the adulteration to this rifle occured before I owned it. But, since the original rear sight had been removed and the replacement left much to be desired, I put the XS scope mount on it. Before I did though, it had several cuts that looked just like the ones you have pictured.


Here is a closeup of the surviving cut. Wherever that rifle came from I'm sure it has had adventures. Imagine the stories it could tell.

Guess:

Not machine-cut. Done by hand. For extra cooling or extra moisture evaporation or both.

mokin said:

Interesting cuts for sure. I have a No1 MkIII* Ishy that was "reworked" by Golden State Arms back when you could order guns through the mail.
View attachment 1094355

Most of the adulteration to this rifle occured before I owned it. But, since the original rear sight had been removed and the replacement left much to be desired, I put the XS scope mount on it. Before I did though, it had several cuts that looked just like the ones you have pictured.
View attachment 1094358

Here is a closeup of the surviving cut. Wherever that rifle came from I'm sure it has had adventures. Imagine the stories it could tell.

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It was common back in the day for importers to chop up No1 Mk III rifles to turn them into jungle carbines. Which is what you happen to have. Even though those aren't a true Jungle Carbine, they are starting to have some collectors value if they were done right. In the 60's and 70's Enfield were dirt cheap and a lot of Australian Lithgows were imported along with British Enfield. I have a 1942 Lithgow that was sporterized.

I handled hundreds of SMLE's and never saw a stock cut like that. As a general rule, upper handguards are a tight fit as no one wanted soldiers removing actions from the stocks, to clean out crud. Given the thermal capacity of a barrel, and the rate of heat loss, cutting vents in the side of the stock will have a negligible affect on cooling.

If some full military rifles pop up with those cuts, then they were done by the factory, or by a unit Armorer. Lee Enfields went through many hands, and there are rare versions I have only seen in books. Until such time, I think those cuts were not made by the British.

Apparently, some factories or armorers or idle soldiers invested time and effort in making these cuts.

So what are they for if not for heat or moisture or both dissipation? Especially for very hot or wet or both environments like jungles.

Maybe it was just to save wood? ,

Terry, 230RN

I doubt the British Army would have permitted a soldier to deface one of their rifles. Far more likely a subsequent owner.


Kevin

AlexanderA

Those notches are reminiscent -- regarding shape and spacing -- of the notches on the SKS (handguard) and AK47 (forend and handguard). My guess is that this rifle came from South Asia (Afghanistan, Pakistan, India) and the previous owners wanted it to resemble the ComBloc rifles prevalent in the area.

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That's kind of what I was thinking too the first time I looked at the rifle.

Like someone was trying to "upgrade" the appearance of their Lee Enfield with a bit of help from the SKS/AK spare parts bin.

12Bravo20 said:

It was common back in the day for importers to chop up No1 Mk III rifles to turn them into jungle carbines. Which is what you happen to have. Even though those aren't a true Jungle Carbine, they are starting to have some collectors value if they were done right. In the 60's and 70's Enfield were dirt cheap and a lot of Australian Lithgows were imported along with British Enfield. I have a 1942 Lithgow that was sporterized.

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I refer to that rifle as my "Genuine Imitation Jungle Carbine." I am aware that a very niche collectors market is developing for such items. I'm rather impressed at the level of professionalism the guys at Golden State displayed when they assembled that rifle. The Bubba (or one of them) who handled afterwards didn't do it any favors.

The only thing a British " Tommy" was allowed to do on a Service Rifle was clean the barrel,bolt and and lightly oil said items,using the pull-through and oil bottle stored in the butt stock .He would be bought up on charges and would have spent 10 days cleaning latrines or peeling spuds if he messed with anything else. The OP's No1 mk3* has had the forend cut down and shaped like so many of these rifles which were sold by the countless thousands in the surplus market. This is how the rifle looked in 1918.

As issued in 1945,an unaltered No 5 mk1 rifle....

Couldn't find any mention of those notches anywhere in this book.. They are indeed a mystery.

BTW, there were a handful of Lee- Enfields chambered in 22 Hornet. They were made as sporters and employed Savage 23D magazines!

Without knowing the provenance of the rifle it really is hard to say. But it sure does look like some of the Enfield coming out of Afghanistan and northern Pakistan. You see all kinds of weird and interesting stuff come from the Khyber Pass region.

JohnB-40 said:

As issued in 1945,an unaltered No 5 mk1 rifle....

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THAT, is a prize indeed. thanks for sharing.

JohnB-40 said:

The only thing a British " Tommy" was allowed to do on a Service Rifle was clean the barrel,bolt and and lightly oil said items,using the pull-through and oil bottle stored in the butt stock .He would be bought up on charges and would have spent 10 days cleaning latrines or peeling spuds if he messed with anything else. The OP's No1 mk3* has had the forend cut down and shaped like so many of these rifles which were sold by the countless thousands in the surplus market. This is how the rifle looked in 1918.View attachment 1094425

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I talked to an importer of Austrailian SMLE's and they had seen a number of war time SMLE's with names, carvings, women's faces, and notches. It takes time for the mickey mouse regulations to fade away in any war, and the closer to the front a soldier is, the further he is away from martinets. You however, are absolutely right about what occurs in barracks, during training, stateside, in those safe and protected places where martinets thrive.

Still, I don't think the average Tommy or Aussie would be taking down his weapon and filing air vents in the stock. It is more likely some civilian who "sporterizied" the $12.00 rifle he pulled out of a barrel at K Mart. I remember seeing barrels of SMLE's at KMart in the middle 1960's. Gunsmiths were writing all sorts of sporterizing articles, to drum up business of course. The shooting community was saturated with "sporterizing". I can say, even after the turn of the century, when I brought my full military M1903's, or Mausers to the range, I had old fools recommend ways to sporterize these rifles. They were mindlessly repeating what they had read a half century before, and had no idea how much an original, full military rifle was worth. Given a band saw, a pencil, or a wood router, those cuts are easy to make. The cutter may have been using a dove tail jig on his router.

Slamfire said:

It is more likely some civilian who "sporterizied" the $12.00 rifle he pulled out of a barrel at K Mart. I remember seeing barrels of SMLE's at KMart in the middle 1960's. Gunsmiths were writing all sorts of sporterizing articles, to drum up business of course. The shooting community was saturated with "sporterizing".

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As a teenager, in the early 1960's, I paid about $12 for an Australian Lithgow Enfield. And (mea culpa) I sporterized it according to the accepted standards of the day. But that did not include cutting SKS-like notches in the stock. The person who did that was clearly influenced by the ComBloc aesthetic. That would be either (a) someone in a Third World country where both Enfields and ComBloc rifles were prevalent (probably Afghanistan / Pakistan), or (b) someone in the U.S. after the importation wave of SKS rifles. The large time gap between the Enfield importation wave and the SKS importation wave makes the second scenario much less likely.

Theduke635 said:

It was imported pre 68 so I'm doubting the SKS influence plus the cuts match the patina of the wood and are cut off slightly where it was sporterized

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Anything is possible. The SKS has been around since 1945. Without any paperwork, it is hard to tell where your rifle has actually been. A lot of us that were in either Afghanistan or Iraq have seen all kinds of weapon modifications over the years.